ALF Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 8 hours ago, Wacka said: And how will they work under 50 " of snowands will they collapse under that snow? I'm ok with natural gas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 in the big picture its just moronic to move to Electric end devices when the Electric infrastructure and sources have not been increased to meet said demand. France has cheap electricity. Cause they have Nuke plants all over and embrace it. Asia is building nuke and other energy plants as fast as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Chris farley said: in the big picture its just moronic to move to Electric end devices when the Electric infrastructure and sources have not been increased to meet said demand. France has cheap electricity. Cause they have Nuke plants all over and embrace it. Asia is building nuke and other energy plants as fast as possible. That's been this Admin's strategy from the beginning. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Chris farley said: in the big picture its just moronic to move to Electric end devices when the Electric infrastructure and sources have not been increased to meet said demand. France has cheap electricity. Cause they have Nuke plants all over and embrace it. Asia is building nuke and other energy plants as fast as possible. Completely correct. I still haven’t seen much if any discussion about increasing our electricity SUPPLY. There’s a whole lot of yapping about increasing the DEMAND. Seems like a recipe for disaster. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 When I lived in CA. they were covering parking lots with solar panels. There it made sense. Besides it being sunny from March- October, the canopy holding the panels shaded the parking spots. That stop\ed your dash from cracking and your car wasn't an oven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Huh. Washington Post says there’s pressure growing to ban gas stoves, which we were told was a hoax Here’s how it went down: The news broke earlier this month that the US Consumer Product Safety Commission was considering a ban on gas stoves, which (allegedly) cause childhood asthma. They immediately tried to walk that back, saying a ban was never on the table and the idea was only “floated” by Commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. in an interview with Bloomberg. Suddenly it became a culture war thing. The Washington Post reported that it was Republicans who had “thrust gas stoves … into the culture wars.” “Morning Joe” mocked Republicans for their “meltdown over gas stoves.” California State Senator Scott Wiener got the last laugh, pulling up a chart showing that gas stoves are a blue state thing; the hicks in the flyover states already use electric stoves. But again, even though it was Trumka who brought it up, WaPo says it was Republicans who made it a front in the culture wars. Now the Washington Post is saying pressure is growing to ban natural gas and has experts explain how to swap out your gas-burning stove.......LOL https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/01/24/washington-post-says-theres-pressure-growing-to-ban-gas-stoves-which-we-were-told-was-a-hoax/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Wacka said: When I lived in CA. they were covering parking lots with solar panels. There it made sense. Besides it being sunny from March- October, the canopy holding the panels shaded the parking spots. That stop\ed your dash from cracking and your car wasn't an oven. That’s still a very common application. Public school campuses are one of the main targets. The company provides the structure and the panels and takes a cut of the energy savings. It’s call a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA). Unfortunately these type of financial deals are all based on the projection of the rate of increase in costs for electricity. They often go sour when the initial guess was overly aggressive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 How much money will you get with the Inflation Reduction Act? https://www.rewiringamerica.org/app/ira-calculator Heat Pump Water Heater $1,750 Late 2023 More Info Heat Pump Air Conditioner/Heater $8,000 Late 2023 More Info Heat Pump Clothes Dryer $840 Late 2023 I never knew anyone up north having a heat pump or how difficult to convert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 8:55 PM, Wacka said: And how will they work under 50 " of snowands will they collapse under that snow? Entirely possible, but if all goes as planned, there will be no subsequent gas leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, ALF said: How much money will you get with the Inflation Reduction Act? https://www.rewiringamerica.org/app/ira-calculator Heat Pump Water Heater $1,750 Late 2023 More Info Heat Pump Air Conditioner/Heater $8,000 Late 2023 More Info Heat Pump Clothes Dryer $840 Late 2023 I never knew anyone up north having a heat pump or how difficult to convert. Everything I over read said only with mild winters. Thermal is what, 55 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 3:36 PM, B-Man said: Huh. Washington Post says there’s pressure growing to ban gas stoves, which we were told was a hoax Here’s how it went down: The news broke earlier this month that the US Consumer Product Safety Commission was considering a ban on gas stoves, which (allegedly) cause childhood asthma. They immediately tried to walk that back, saying a ban was never on the table and the idea was only “floated” by Commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. in an interview with Bloomberg. Suddenly it became a culture war thing. The Washington Post reported that it was Republicans who had “thrust gas stoves … into the culture wars.” “Morning Joe” mocked Republicans for their “meltdown over gas stoves.” California State Senator Scott Wiener got the last laugh, pulling up a chart showing that gas stoves are a blue state thing; the hicks in the flyover states already use electric stoves. But again, even though it was Trumka who brought it up, WaPo says it was Republicans who made it a front in the culture wars. Now the Washington Post is saying pressure is growing to ban natural gas and has experts explain how to swap out your gas-burning stove.......LOL https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/01/24/washington-post-says-theres-pressure-growing-to-ban-gas-stoves-which-we-were-told-was-a-hoax/ I converted my old, dirty wood burning fireplace to natural gas about 8 or 9 years ago. The suggestion here is that if I’m concerned about impact to the environment, I drop $5-7000 to get an electric model with a cool led light and fake crackling w/ no heat, or $15-20,000 to return to a less dirty but dirty wood burner. I’m not feeling it, and am currently exploring the ways to beat the system in the event Gas Fireplace Prohibition becomes a thing. So far, the prevailing wisdom is to offer protection money to the politicians/authorities implementing the rules for the greater good. I’ll stay with this story…stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I converted my old, dirty wood burning fireplace to natural gas about 8 or 9 years ago. The suggestion here is that if I’m concerned about impact to the environment, I drop $5-7000 to get an electric model with a cool led light and fake crackling w/ no heat, or $15-20,000 to return to a less dirty but dirty wood burner. I’m not feeling it, and am currently exploring the ways to beat the system in the event Gas Fireplace Prohibition becomes a thing. So far, the prevailing wisdom is to offer protection money to the politicians/authorities implementing the rules for the greater good. I’ll stay with this story…stay tuned. So its not "cost effective"? That's the bottom line. When you run the numbers on the renewable "economy" or even an all electric economy, it will just cost too much along with being less efficient and less reliable.. And if you want to adopt an energy source with those characteristics the implication is you as an individual and society as a whole will become less productive and as a result your standard of living and quality of life will suffer. Look at EV's. If they were cost effective you wouldn't need $7,500 tax credits to entice rich people to buy them. Edited January 27, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Chris farley said: Everything I over read said only with mild winters. Thermal is what, 55 degrees. I've had gas, geo thermal and heat pump. I can't see a heat pump only product working north of central Virginia. What can be done is having a heat pump that is dual fuel, and switches to nat gas/propane below about 45 degrees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So it’s not "cost effective"? That's the bottom line. When you run the numbers on the renewable "economy" or even an all electric economy, it will just cost too much along with being less efficient and less reliable.. And if you want to adopt an energy source with those characteristics the implication is you as an individual and society as a whole will become less productive and as a result your standard of living and quality of life will suffer. “Suffer” is a strong word here, especially in light of some of the trauma people go through in life. I try to be a realist, and while I’m not always successful at separating fact from fiction, I do try. I think the argument is silly, and while I recognize the fact that the use of natural gas is not 100% “safe” by all measures, nothing ever is. In my case, installing the fireplace has reduced our overall consumption dramatically. I like that. I think some people and organizations use fear as a tool to bludgeon people into submission. I think technology can be a good thing and if the next generation has the option of completely environmentally friendly heating/cooling and we see a major reduction in climate hypocrisy by those leading the charge for me to sit by a plant light pretending it’s a roaring fire, that’s ok by me. In the meantime, it’s cold outside and I’ll click the remote and be grateful for the smart folks who came up with safe click-to-flame technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 3:36 PM, B-Man said: Huh. Washington Post says there’s pressure growing to ban gas stoves, which we were told was a hoax Here’s how it went down: The news broke earlier this month that the US Consumer Product Safety Commission was considering a ban on gas stoves, which (allegedly) cause childhood asthma. They immediately tried to walk that back, saying a ban was never on the table and the idea was only “floated” by Commissioner Richard Trumka Jr. in an interview with Bloomberg. Suddenly it became a culture war thing. The Washington Post reported that it was Republicans who had “thrust gas stoves … into the culture wars.” “Morning Joe” mocked Republicans for their “meltdown over gas stoves.” California State Senator Scott Wiener got the last laugh, pulling up a chart showing that gas stoves are a blue state thing; the hicks in the flyover states already use electric stoves. But again, even though it was Trumka who brought it up, WaPo says it was Republicans who made it a front in the culture wars. Now the Washington Post is saying pressure is growing to ban natural gas and has experts explain how to swap out your gas-burning stove.......LOL https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2023/01/24/washington-post-says-theres-pressure-growing-to-ban-gas-stoves-which-we-were-told-was-a-hoax/ One incredibly dubious study and the left wants to ban natural gas entirely, meanwhile no amount of SCIENCE!™️ will convince them that a man cannot become a woman. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, LeviF said: One incredibly dubious study and the left wants to ban natural gas entirely, meanwhile no amount of SCIENCE!™️ will convince them that a man cannot become a woman. Reminds me of this How a 9-Year-Old Boy's Statistic Shaped a Debate on Straws https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-ban-fact-check-nyt.html Claim: Americans use 500 million straws a day. Claimed by: EcoCycle and others. Fact check by The New York Times: That estimate is well above the... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, B-Man said: Reminds me of this How a 9-Year-Old Boy's Statistic Shaped a Debate on Straws https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-ban-fact-check-nyt.html Claim: Americans use 500 million straws a day. Claimed by: EcoCycle and others. Fact check by The New York Times: That estimate is well above the... If you operate under a baseline assumption that 90% of these causes have no material impact other than to impose some rule or restriction that creates a nuisance and inconvenience for the general public you'll be right more often than not. Edited January 27, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) On 1/25/2023 at 3:40 PM, SoCal Deek said: That’s still a very common application. Public school campuses are one of the main targets. The company provides the structure and the panels and takes a cut of the energy savings. It’s call a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA). Unfortunately these type of financial deals are all based on the projection of the rate of increase in costs for electricity. They often go sour when the initial guess was overly aggressive. Kind of like the initial guesses about the savings that would be generated from the ACA (affordable care act, aka Obamacare) and thereby reducing the overall cost of health care for everyone. Edited February 4, 2023 by Steve O 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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