billsfan89 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 53 minutes ago, Beck Water said: That's how I see it. When we traded for Diggs, several posters here critiqued the deal saying that it's not just "we traded a first and stuff for Diggs, a great WR, and the Vikes got Jefferson in the first, so we both won". The Vikes got a great player on a cost-controlled rookie deal while we got a great older player for whom we had to pay a fat contract. I still think the deal was a good one: the Bills got a savvy vet who could help Allen develop and help raise the level of the WR room; the Vikes got a youngster who could learn to do things as their savvy vet QB wanted them done. But that's not where we are now. If the Bills are going to sustain success, they have to get production from cost-controlled drafted players. I remember this coming up when Jefferson started to blow up his rookie year but there is no guarantee that Jefferson would be the same WR in Buffalo that he is in Minnesota. I am paraphrasing this because its been a few years so if this is vague please forgive the poor explanation. Jefferson’s biggest weakness coming out of college was a particular type of route running. That type of route running was something that Adam Thielen was an expert in. Jefferson learned from Thielien in the off-season and camp. Without Thielen it is possible that Jefferson could have developed slower and not been an impact player his first couple of years in the league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: If he hasn't been moved on Draft Day...if we get to pick 27 and the Bills don't have a very highly graded player....I'd call AZ and offer them our pick, we trade down to their 2nd rounder (which I think is only 7 picks lower) and give them our 3rd next year How are you going to fit Hopkins’ contract under the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Ha really? I know you've become the most vocal regime apologist on TSW but even you should be concerned if they end up going into the season with Allen and a bunch of spare parts on offense. I know, I know, hE tRaDeD a fIRsT fOr dIgGs... I will withhold judgement until September but if the offense doesn't get a significant talent upgrade across the board - other than this bizarre Goldilocks routine with running backs - it's a very bad look for the GM. Apologist, really? I’ll criticize when necessary, but I’m not going to pretend the world is ending. They’ve had success and turned around a pathetic franchise. They need to get better to win a Super Bowl. Everyone agrees with that. Most of what I say is an attempt to compare to the rest of the league… not just bitching and moaning about things without context. You’re only good or bad by comparison. If you’re implying a guy who put together 2 Super Bowl winning teams is a failure, you’re insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: If you’re implying a guy who put together 2 Super Bowl winning teams is a failure, you’re insane. I think even Beane would admit he's been a failure to date. They don't give out participation trophies, or Cap Management Executive of the Year awards. It's Lombardi or bust, and being afraid to take bold steps because it may cost an extra $2-$3M or a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick is extremely shortsighted and the quickest way to be out of a job. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: I think even Beane would admit he's been a failure to date. They don't give out participation trophies, or Cap Management Executive of the Year awards. It's Lombardi or bust, and being afraid to take bold steps because it may cost an extra $2-$3M or a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick is extremely shortsighted and the quickest way to be out of a job. You implied Ted Thompson was a failure and he has 2 Super Bowl trophies to his name. Your response doesn’t track… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said: I think even Beane would admit he's been a failure to date. They don't give out participation trophies, or Cap Management Executive of the Year awards. It's Lombardi or bust, and being afraid to take bold steps because it may cost an extra $2-$3M or a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick is extremely shortsighted and the quickest way to be out of a job. Meanwhile Beane entering year 6 with the Bills.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I remember this coming up when Jefferson started to blow up his rookie year but there is no guarantee that Jefferson would be the same WR in Buffalo that he is in Minnesota. I am paraphrasing this because its been a few years so if this is vague please forgive the poor explanation. Jefferson’s biggest weakness coming out of college was a particular type of route running. That type of route running was something that Adam Thielen was an expert in. Jefferson learned from Thielien in the off-season and camp. Without Thielen it is possible that Jefferson could have developed slower and not been an impact player his first couple of years in the league. I agree IIRC Jefferson's first two years under Zimmer and the Kubiaks, the Vikes offense was built around running the ball to set up the pass, and throwing it deep to Jefferson. I'm oversimplifying, obviously, but Jefferson had 15.9 and 15.0 yds/reception, top-10 in the league. Jefferson is very good at those routes and elite at tracking the ball and clinching the deal. But this past year, he started playing all the receiver positions including from the slot. Anyway, as you say, no guarantee that either Jefferson or Allen would have developed the same way if he were in B'lo. The accurate deep ball was NOT one of Allen's strengths in his first 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: You implied Ted Thompson was a failure and he has 2 Super Bowl trophies to his name. Your response doesn’t track… Ted Thompson absolutely, 100% was a failure. With the QB talent he had, in a crappy division, he should've steered that team to dynasty-level status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Jerboski said: Not if they don’t start doing a much better job managing this roster around him and finding coaches who don’t ***** themselves in the playoffs sean has been outcoached thoroughly in the playoffs Can't say I disagree. Only McBean can get us over the hump and they need to do better than years past to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 when was the last time a player was given permission to seek a "trade" (not explore free agency)......and then stayed with the team ? usually thats the kiss of death.....that player will almost certainly be somewhere else within a year. you're not wanted, help us move you. 2023 - Derek carr, D-Ho, Ekeler, Rodgers (only jets), allen robinson, Darius slay (he stayed, might be the exception) 2022- tyreek hill, lael collins, jimmy g(left following yr), jarvis landry, cole beasley (left and came back) 2021 - akiem hicks (left following yr) 2020 - trent williams, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Ha really? I know you've become the most vocal regime apologist on TSW but even you should be concerned if they end up going into the season with Allen and a bunch of spare parts on offense. I know, I know, hE tRaDeD a fIRsT fOr dIgGs... I will withhold judgement until September but if the offense doesn't get a significant talent upgrade across the board - other than this bizarre Goldilocks routine with running backs - it's a very bad look for the GM. Lol you’ll withhold judgement until September. Next sentence……..judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The "significant development" being the Cardinals lowering their asking price after Hopkins and his agent inevitably demand a deal gets done.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, papazoid said: when was the last time a player was given permission to seek a "trade" (not explore free agency)......and then stayed with the team ? usually thats the kiss of death.....that player will almost certainly be somewhere else within a year. you're not wanted, help us move you. 2023 - Derek carr, D-Ho, Ekeler, Rodgers (only jets), allen robinson, Darius slay (he stayed, might be the exception) 2022- tyreek hill, lael collins, jimmy g(left following yr), jarvis landry, cole beasley (left and came back) 2021 - akiem hicks (left following yr) 2020 - trent williams, It’s essentially telling your partner “you’re welcome to start seeing other people.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Ted Thompson absolutely, 100% was a failure. With the QB talent he had, in a crappy division, he should've steered that team to dynasty-level status. You aren't a failure if you win 2 Super Bowls. You want Sean Payton as HC who had Drew Brees for like 12-15 years and only won one Super Bowl. Several early playoff exits as well. What's the difference? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 this may have been posted already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Figster said: this may have been posted already It has. But if you watch the video, he never mentions the Bills. Mentions fits with other teams, mentions Raiders don't make sense, never mentions the Bills. So I don't know how this is giving anyone an impression. Unless we're once again trying to read deeply into things that may or may not be there. "He mentions every team but the Bills. This must mean the Bills are trading for him soon!" Edited March 28, 2023 by BillsFanForever19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: It has. But if you watch the video, he never mentions the Bills. Mentions fits with other teams, mentions Raiders don't make sense, never mentions the Bills. So I don't know how this is giving anyone an impression. Unless we're once again trying to read deeply into things that may or may not be there. "He mentions every team but the Bills. This must mean the Bills are trading for him soon!" Nodding yes on Buffalo soldier IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Mcg said: Let me summarize . I'm a kid on Spring break having a fun time fooling old people I think most people can see that. There are some Bills fans who really want Hopkins so they want to believe ECBulls is somehow connected. But we all know it’s a regular dude pretending to somewhat important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Apparently, Ian not even mentioning the Bills but not outwardly excluding them like he did the Raiders is him giving the "impression" that the Bills are in 🙄 Considering how tight lipped the Bills are when it comes to these things and how they typically get done out of nowhere, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills made it known they don't want their interest getting out. It looked to me like he wanted to say other teams but refrained from doing it. I wouldn't say the Bills are out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said: Considering how tight lipped the Bills are when it comes to these things and how they typically get done out of nowhere, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills made it known they don't want their interest getting out. It looked to me like he wanted to say other teams but refrained from doing it. I wouldn't say the Bills are out Saying this is really reading into the video. He also didn’t speak of the interest from NE or Baltimore. It doesn’t mean they are out or in on Hopkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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