Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[DCofNC]

22 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

100%.  Had Allen ended up being Mitch Trubiski, McBeane is gone.  The drafts have been absolutely devoid of impact players.  They have scraped together a number of ok guys, but if you take away Allen, the whole team would be flat on its face.  A lot of the FA signings are just as bad or worse than the drafts as well.  I feel Beane is DRAMATICALLY over rated in talent evaluation. 

38 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Right, Oliver did test exceptionally, even though he was undersized, and he was drafted on par with expectations, i don't dispute that.... but this team has an obsession with undersized guys to a fault.  It's part of the reason i was so excited they drafted a guy like Rousseau to begin with.

 

The latest extreme example being Terell Bernard, just good lord, what are they even thinking. He doesn't even have the athletic profile nevermind size. Or for years you look at our WR corp and everyone was under 6 foot and didn't have big time athletics to compensate, then they got Diggs via trade but still, no investment in a WR with big wingspan, closest we have is 6'2" Gabe Davis and his 58th percentile arm length. 

 

I just think it's exciting to see them take the guy with the measurables and he work out and be a difference maker. His length creates so many issues for teams. 

somebody who gets it.  The drafting, aside from Allen has been mediocre.  IDGAF how many guys manage to stick in the NFL, they are replacement level guys, you get over the hump by having difference makers on a rookie deal, we have exactly zero of them aside from the 5th year option on Edmunds and I feel reallly dirty even calling him an impact guy.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Another thing to keep in mind with Boogie: Bills had him drop 15-20 pounds this summer. As we saw with 57, that adjustment takes time. 

[clayboy54]

I will just remind a few of you so-called draft-niks that one Bill Belichick is a lousy drafter. I honestly cannot think of a single draft that he nailed, yet they have what? Six freakin’ Super Bowl rings. Eleven AFC Championships.

 

Thus far, I do not believe McDermott and Beane have screwed the pooch drafting as badly as Belichick routinely has. They clearly have missed on second rounders, though. That said, I’ll take a championship run like the Pats had every day and twice on Sundays coupled with mediocre drafts if that’s what it takes.

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Since 2017 - First and Second Round

 

2017      1             27           Tre'Davious White - All Pro before injury

2018      1             16           Tremaine Edmunds - Pro Bowl

2018      1             7             Josh Allen - Top 3 QB in the league

2019      1             9             Ed Oliver - Top 25% of DT's

2021      1             30           Gregory Rousseau - 2nd Yr Top 15% of Edge

2022      1             23           Kaiir Elam - Rookie, below average CB

2017      2             63           Dion Dawkins top 25% of OT's

2017      2             37           Zay Jones - Traded - currently top 40% of WR's

2019      2             38           Cody Ford - Traded - bottom 10% of OT's

2020      2             54           A.J. Epenesa - Bottom 20% of Edge

2021      2             61            Carlos Basham Jr. - Middle of the pack Edge

2022      2             63           James Cook - Top 1/3 of RB as rookie, top 4 in his age group.

 

I would say busts are Cody Ford and AJE.  Jury is out on Elam. 

 

League Wide there are 640 1st and 2nd round choices in a 5 year cycle,

 

Bills have several stars and a number of solid if not spectacular contributors.

 

Not every first or second rounder is going to be an all-pro or pro-bowler.

2017 was a Whaley draft.  You’re dramatically over rating several of the guys as well.  Cook a top RB?  Really? C’mon man.

[SCBills]

30 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

100%.  Had Allen ended up being Mitch Trubiski, McBeane is gone.  The drafts have been absolutely devoid of impact players.  They have scraped together a number of ok guys, but if you take away Allen, the whole team would be flat on its face.  A lot of the FA signings are just as bad or worse than the drafts as well.  I feel Beane is DRAMATICALLY over rated in talent evaluation. 

somebody who gets it.  The drafting, aside from Allen has been mediocre.  IDGAF how many guys manage to stick in the NFL, they are replacement level guys, you get over the hump by having difference makers on a rookie deal, we have exactly zero of them aside from the 5th year option on Edmunds and I feel reallly dirty even calling him an impact guy.

Its all about QB.  Jets GM is on thin ice after drafting a bunch of impact guys because he blew the QB pick.  
 

Re: Beane… You can’t judge a draft based on one year, but when you have a 45M QB, you start needing rookies to contribute. 
 

No idea what the problem is with Elam. Just f***** play him.  My goodness. 
 

James Cook looks like he has top end RB1 potential.  Seems like it could be a home run pick.. but at a position where you can find guys anywhere. 
 

Bernard is maddening.  We’re told the pick wasn’t for this year.  Ok, cool.. when is it for?  We’re 99% re-signing Edmunds.   Y’all really spent a 3rd Rounder on a backup LB for his rookie contract?

 

His Draft/FA record looks like a lot of other teams.   He hit on the QB, is average on the higher end picks and is very good on late round scouting.   That’s a high end GM in todays NFL. 

 

For all the credit people want to give KC for taking Creed Humphrey, we have Morse and don’t know if he can play OG.   KC has their own issues… For all the talk of Tyreek Hill, they let Sneed walk, have no pass rush and struggle to stop anyone on defense.   Their offense is Mahomes/Kelce dependent.  If Kelce goes down, as good as Mahomes is, so does their offense.   Could say the same about Diggs, but their entire offense orbits around Kelce like planets around a sun. 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

Right, Oliver did test exceptionally, even though he was undersized, and he was drafted on par with expectations, i don't dispute that.... but this team has an obsession with undersized guys to a fault.  It's part of the reason i was so excited they drafted a guy like Rousseau to begin with.

 

The latest extreme example being Terell Bernard, just good lord, what are they even thinking. He doesn't even have the athletic profile nevermind size. Or for years you look at our WR corp and everyone was under 6 foot and didn't have big time athletics to compensate, then they got Diggs via trade but still, no investment in a WR with big wingspan, closest we have is 6'2" Gabe Davis and his 58th percentile arm length. 

 

I just think it's exciting to see them take the guy with the measurables and he work out and be a difference maker. His length creates so many issues for teams. 

I disagree. If anything, the Bills bet on traits just as much as any team. Allen is a massive, strong qb. Edmunds is an alien at middle LB. Bass has one of the biggest legs in the league. Rousseau…which you mentioned, is a monster. Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle are massive prospects.  Heck, even Tre has a crazy wingspan. 
 

I’ll give you Oliver and Bernard. Still think Oliver has been good, but my goodness was Bernard a horrible pick to this point. We needed oline depth and we took an undersized LB that nobody heard of. Terrible pick. 

43 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

100%.  Had Allen ended up being Mitch Trubiski, McBeane is gone.  The drafts have been absolutely devoid of impact players.  They have scraped together a number of ok guys, but if you take away Allen, the whole team would be flat on its face.  A lot of the FA signings are just as bad or worse than the drafts as well.  I feel Beane is DRAMATICALLY over rated in talent evaluation. 

somebody who gets it.  The drafting, aside from Allen has been mediocre.  IDGAF how many guys manage to stick in the NFL, they are replacement level guys, you get over the hump by having difference makers on a rookie deal, we have exactly zero of them aside from the 5th year option on Edmunds and I feel reallly dirty even calling him an impact guy.

Well I hate to tell you, but Edmunds is 100% an impact guy. Not even debatable. Did you notice how open the middle was in his absence this year?  Quit playing to the board narrative and be more open to the truth. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I disagree. If anything, the Bills bet on traits just as much as any team. Allen is a massive, strong qb. Edmunds is an alien at middle LB. Bass has one of the biggest legs in the league. Rousseau…which you mentioned, is a monster. Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle are massive prospects.  Heck, even Tre has a crazy wingspan. 
 

I’ll give you Oliver and Bernard. Still think Oliver has been good, but my goodness was Bernard a horrible pick to this point. We needed oline depth and we took an undersized LB that nobody heard of. Terrible pick. 

Oliver has been good, but when I’m thinking last top 10 pick we’ll have for a long time.. he should be giving us Quinnen Williams type play at DT.  
 

Let’s see…. Interior pressure will be important against Burrow.  
 

Wish I could say I’m confident we get a big game from Ed.   I’m not.  I’m worried he’ll be eh, ok. 
 

Maybe he starts proving why we should honor the 5th year option and extend him long term starting Monday Night.  
 

Because as of now … I’d trade him for a 2nd Rounder before the draft.  

[Turbo44]

1 hour ago, ßookie_tech said:

Was not impressed with him at Wake Forest. Not contributing enough to warrant 2nd round status. 

My son goes to Wake Forest and I watched every game Boogie played in his last 2 years.  High character guy who didn't opt out in the Covid year and came back for  5th year for his teammates.  He dominated the competition...not sure what there wasn't to like with him at Wake??

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Its all about QB.  Jets GM is on thin ice after drafting a bunch of impact guys because he blew the QB pick.  
 

Re: Beane… You can’t judge a draft based on one year, but when you have a 45M QB, you start needing rookies to contribute. 
 

No idea what the problem is with Elam. Just f***** play him.  My goodness. 
 

James Cook looks like he has top end RB1 potential.  Seems like it could be a home run pick.. but at a position where you can find guys anywhere. 
 

Bernard is maddening.  We’re told the pick wasn’t for this year.  Ok, cool.. when is it for?  We’re 99% re-signing Edmunds.   Y’all really spent a 3rd Rounder on a backup LB for his rookie contract?

 

His Draft/FA record looks like a lot of other teams.   He hit on the QB, is average on the higher end picks and is very good on late round scouting.   That’s a high end GM in todays NFL. 

 

For all the credit people want to give KC for taking Creed Humphrey, we have Morse and don’t know if he can play OG.   KC has their own issues… For all the talk of Tyreek Hill, they let Sneed walk, have no pass rush and struggle to stop anyone on defense.   Their offense is Mahomes/Kelce dependent.  If Kelce goes down, as good as Mahomes is, so does their offense.   Could say the same about Diggs, but their entire offense orbits around Kelce like planets around a sun. 

Bernard ticked me off…bad. So did Basham. I’ll give you Humphrey though. Maybe they didn’t think he could pay G. Don’t know. But…we also could have had Dylan Parham instead of Bernard. Same thing…he went a pick later. Joe Marino was pumping him all pre-draft as a guy who had elite athleticism who could come in and play guard for a few years and be your rotational C. The Bernard pick just doesn’t make any sense. 

[Turbo44]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Oliver has been good, but when I’m thinking last top 10 pick we’ll have for a long time.. he should be giving us Quinnen Williams type play at DT.  
 

Let’s see…. Interior pressure will be important against Burrow.  
 

Wish I could say I’m confident we get a big game from Ed.   I’m not.  I’m worried he’ll be eh, ok. 
 

Maybe he starts proving why we should honor the 5th year option and extend him long term starting Monday Night.  
 

Because as of now … I’d trade him for a 2nd Rounder before the draft.  

Oliver for a 2nd?  I think you'd have 31 teams jump at that.

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I will just remind a few of you so-called draft-niks that one Bill Belichick is a lousy drafter. I honestly cannot think of a single draft that he nailed, yet they have what? Six freakin’ Super Bowl rings. Eleven AFC Championships.

 

Thus far, I do not believe McDermott and Beane have screwed the pooch drafting as badly as Belichick routinely has. They clearly have missed on second rounders, though. That said, I’ll take a championship run like the Pats had every day and twice on Sundays coupled with mediocre drafts if that’s what it takes.

Bill Belichick IS a terrible drafter lol.  He got Tom Brady.

 

We haven't had a championship run like the Pats. We haven't even MADE a Super Bowl. Do you think they won because they sucked at drafting?

 

What a strange comment.

Edited December 31, 2022 by FireChans

[Ethan in Cleveland]

If Bernard was not a third round pick, he would not even be on the roster. He would struggle to even get a PS spot, but McD and Beane have to save face and keep him on the roster. 

[whorlnut]

Just now, Turbo44 said:

Oliver for a 2nd?  I think you'd have 31 teams jump at that.

Yeah…and knowing Beane, he’d flip that pick into another DT selection. He just can’t help himself. Hopefully, if that’s the case, it’s after we spend a first on an offensive weapon for our franchise qb. 

[SCBills]

Just now, Turbo44 said:

Oliver for a 2nd?  I think you'd have 31 teams jump at that.

Great … take the highest 2nd Rounder and/or see if we can get more.  
 

Im not paying an above average / hasn’t shown to be elite DT when we have a 45M QB on the books.   That’s absurd asset allocation. 
 

I also don’t want to see a trend where guys start walking for nothing. 
 

Would LOVE for Ed to start showing me why we need to pay him. 

[Turbo44]

Just now, SCBills said:

Great … take the highest 2nd Rounder and/or see if we can get more.  
 

Im not paying an above average / hasn’t shown to be elite DT when we have a 45M QB on the books.   That’s absurd asset allocation. 
 

I also don’t want to see a trend where guys start walking for nothing. 
 

Would LOVE for Ed to start showing me why we need to pay him. 

Apparently you haven't watched much of Ed this year and.....you're not paying him, Pegula is

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Oliver for a 2nd?  I think you'd have 31 teams jump at that.

Hmmmm. I dont know about that. Teams overvalue their draft picks and if you trade for him you have to sign him to a big contract. Someone makes that deal but I bet it is closer to 5 or 10 teams not all 31

[Turbo44]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Bill Belichick IS a terrible drafter lol.  He got Tom Brady.

 

We haven't had a championship run like the Pats. We haven't even MADE a Super Bowl. Do you think they won because they sucked at drafting?

 

What a strange comment.

Belicheck wasn't in charge of the NE draft when they took Brady, Pioli was.  Bill didn't take over the draft duties until Pioli left for KC ad his picks have been very average to below average

[SCBills]

Just now, Turbo44 said:

Apparently you haven't watched much of Ed this year and.....you're not paying him, Pegula is

I have, and he’s not playing like a guy we should invest a ton of money into long term.   Especially given the position he plays.  
 

Go terrorize Burrow and we can start having that conversation.   Im not terribly impressed when he bullies backup interior linemen. 
 

Not my money, but it’s the team I root for.. and they have to operate under a somewhat malleable salary cap. 

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Great … take the highest 2nd Rounder and/or see if we can get more.  
 

Im not paying an above average / hasn’t shown to be elite DT when we have a 45M QB on the books.   That’s absurd asset allocation. 
 

I also don’t want to see a trend where guys start walking for nothing. 
 

Would LOVE for Ed to start showing me why we need to pay him. 

I think they would like to keep Oliver, but if we pay edmunds, we are starting to really deep dive into some big extensions on both sides of the ball. We can’t pay everyone. Someone is going to get left out. 
 

My guess is Oliver and Davis aren’t in the long-term plans. Take Cinci…DJ Reader is totally disruptive and he was taken in the fifth round. I think you can find someone like that to replace Oliver later on. Heck…I think DaQuan Jones was a 4th rounder. 
 

As for Davis…I’m fine with trading him, but I can also see value in keeping him. I don’t think a first round rookie WR would be completely ready to be handed the job, and competing with Davis for a year could make for a great situation for us. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Turbo44 said:

Belicheck wasn't in charge of the NE draft when they took Brady, Pioli was.  Bill didn't take over the draft duties until Pioli left for KC ad his picks have been very average to below average

His picks have been terrible. He's a terrible drafter. That's why your comment is so strange.

 

The Pats won because BB is a GOAT coach and Brady is a GOAT QB.  They didn't win because they sucked at drafting.  The Pats winning formula wasn't:

 

Suck at drafting

????

Win Superbowls

 

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say about it being a good thing.