Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[Orlando Tim]

I am right now slightly disappointed and expected him to be further along but any discussions in regards to draft needs at the time are not relevant to where to where is currently as a player.

[Beast]

This thread is gold. And I’m not speaking about the opinions on Basham.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Beast

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Where did I say anything about anti-Beane?  Nowhere. You made that up. My point is that he’s pumped a ton of resources into the defensive line and has mostly patched together an oline. Protecting Allen is the top priority. I’d hardly call that “insane”. 

Well you did say that it was a troubling stance that Beane is on record saying that he is always looking to add to the defensive line.   To me, that statement is not troubling at all, it's what I like to hear.  I disagree with your finding issue with that statement.

 

This is on top of the OP concentrating on one small aspect of what would have been arguably the best defensive line the Bills have ever had if Von had stayed healthy.

[Virgil]

If I'm not mistaken, Dobbins was taken right after Boogie, so yes.

 

However, at the time of the pick, it was considered to be a value pick because he can lineup both in and outside.  I don't think it's worked out yet and probably won't be a solid starter.  The fact that they took Groot the pick before also makes it look worse.

 

For Beane, I think he's great at drafting certain positions and terrible at others.  To date, he has not proven to know how to draft Offensive lineman, Receivers, and 50/50 on defensive lineman and runningbacks.  Gabe Davis is his one exception so far at the receiver position.  He knocks it out of the park with Linebackers, DB's, and QBs.  

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

5 pages of complaints about a 2nd year player in 2 hours.   

 

Hindsight is 20-20.  

Feel free to complain about more experienced players. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

How about starter making an impact every couple games. That’s the bar. 
 

currently we are well below that. 
 

 

he’s Shaq Lawson 2.0 minus the run defense. 

Except Shaq Lawson is on the roster and better at all the things. Shaq has been a good but not great player for us at times. 
 

Basham could be good a some point but he’s yet to be good enough. 

[ALLinALLEN]

Yes

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

 

This statement is disappointing, but it's even worse that 7 people liked it. New fans, I guess.

 

Tyler Bass drafted in the 6th ... bad kicker?

Matt Milano drafted in the 5th ... bad linebacker?

Gabriel Davis drafted in the 4th ... zero value?

Dawson Knox drafted in the 3rd ... bad Tight End?

Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde brought in as cheap free agents ... bad players?

You might not like Ed Oliver, Devin Singletary, Tremaine Edmunds, and Greg Rousseau, but NONE were busts.

Trading a 1st round pick for Stefon Diggs ... bad move? He's nothing special?

Playoff drought streak broken WITHOUT Josh Allen .... coincidence?

 

This type of ungrateful BS and throwing all the love in the world at Josh Allen and saying he's the only reason we're good needs to stop. Does Josh Allen play defense? Because we're a top 5 defense almost every year with McDermott and Beane.

 

GTFO...

 

 

[WideNine]

Hard just to look at the draft, and not look at the FA successes of this FO.

 

Beane's team has really nailed some FA acquisitions that put this team over the top as a post season regular.

 

Thinking of Diggs, Beasley, Brown, Morse, and this season Jones, Settle, Lawson, Von (before the knee), and Phillips when healthy all have been solid contributors.

 

A little more iffy on the offensive side of the ball this offseason. With Crowder hurt before he really got going, Saffold struggles, and they bring in a lot of FA RBs when that position has often had a backseat role in this offense....just a bit of a head-scratcher. Hines did solidify a punt return role that was very shakey with McKenzie back there.

 

The hindsight on signing Bates to a relatively cheap 4-year when Chicago was kicking the tires seems like a pretty shrewd move now. And Ike signed to a one year prove-it deal makes sense.

 

A lot of scrutiny for a front office that has generally done pretty well fielding a competitive team.

 

Our secondary took a beating this year. Injuries to both safeties - one out for the year, Tre's recovery time, and rookies and depth players at DB and FS that need more time to bake before they can be counted on as difference makers on the field.

 

Perhaps a bit of a gamble that sandwiching rookies between the investments up front and vets behind them would hide the growing pains in coverage.

 

Could've worked, but we lost Hyde in back and Von up front and we have a tendency to give up a lot of 3rd and long plays when the rush does not get home fast enough. 

 

All teams have to deal with the unexpected injuries, or areas where they are thin at quality depth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by WideNine

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

If I'm not mistaken, Dobbins was taken right after Boogie, so yes.

 

However, at the time of the pick, it was considered to be a value pick because he can lineup both in and outside.  I don't think it's worked out yet and probably won't be a solid starter.  The fact that they took Groot the pick before also makes it look worse.

 

For Beane, I think he's great at drafting certain positions and terrible at others.  To date, he has not proven to know how to draft Offensive lineman, Receivers, and 50/50 on defensive lineman and runningbacks.  Gabe Davis is his one exception so far at the receiver position.  He knocks it out of the park with Linebackers, DB's, and QBs.  

I don't think you can even say Beane is terrible at drafting WR's because he fails to even try.

 

It's no surprise that Josh's best year as a Bill came when he had the best WR group as a Bill. In 2020, we had Diggs, Davis, a not washed Beasley, and an injured but still decent John Brown with McKenzie as the gadget guy.  Then, they fail to draft or bring in any young WR's, Brown gets cuts, Beasley ages out of the NFL, and they sign Sanders at 34 whose wheels predictably fall off by November. Then, again, they fail to draft any WR's outside of a fifth rounder and decide to roll with McKenzie/Crowder as splitting time at the 3 spot and JAKE KUMEROW CAREER SPECIAL TEAMER as our rotational outside WR.

 

Since 2020, our WR group has just gotten worse and worse. The reason Josh was spinning the ball in 2020 and laughing during games vs. getting red-faced and basically dying to generate drives in 2022 is directly correlated with a worse WR group.

 

It's near team-building malpractice to not put more weapons around your QB in favor of acquiring MORE rotational DE's that you are going to let walk. Especially when rotational-level WR's with Josh throwing them the football will have a way bigger impact on the team. 
 

How much better would our offense be with a Juju in the slot or the boundary instead of McKenzie or Kumerow? Or a Claypool?

 

We don't even need stars. We don't need a Chase or a Higgins. We need guys who can play and beat #3 CBs.  We only have 2 of those guys on the roster currently.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don't think you can even say Beane is terrible at drafting WR's because he fails to even try.

 

It's no surprise that Josh's best year as a Bill came when he had the best WR group as a Bill. In 2020, we had Diggs, Davis, a not washed Beasley, and an injured but still decent John Brown with McKenzie as the gadget guy.  Then, they fail to draft or bring in any young WR's, Brown gets cuts, Beasley ages out of the NFL, and they sign Sanders at 34 whose wheels predictably fall off by November. Then, again, they fail to draft any WR's outside of a fifth rounder and decide to roll with McKenzie/Crowder as splitting time at the 3 spot and JAKE KUMEROW CAREER SPECIAL TEAMER as our rotational outside WR.

 

Since 2020, our WR group has just gotten worse and worse. The reason Josh was spinning the ball in 2020 and laughing during games vs. getting red-faced and basically dying to generate drives in 2022 is directly correlated with a worse WR group.

 

It's near team-building malpractice to not put more weapons around your QB in favor of acquiring MORE rotational DE's that you are going to let walk. Especially when rotational-level WR's with Josh throwing them the football will have a way bigger impact on the team. 
 

How much better would our offense be with a Juju in the slot or the boundary instead of McKenzie or Kumerow? Or a Claypool?

 

We don't even need stars. We don't need a Chase or a Higgins. We need guys who can play and beat #3 CBs.  We only have 2 of those guys on the roster currently.

 

 

Charging up the WR room in 2020 was arguably the key step in the Bills rise from Bills being a scrappy WC contender to a legit SB contender.

 

Sometimes it seems like Beane is the only one who doesn't understand what they'd actually done by building what at the time was a top 3 WR corps in the NFL around their young QB.

 

Teams have been trying to build top 5 WR corps to elevate their young or underperforming QB's ever since and it's working.

 

They need to get back there but they are chasing it now.........demand is up league-wide, UFA market is thin and there are less sure-thing types in the upcoming draft.........it won't be as easy to put it back together as it would have been to simply maintain it.

 

 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Charging up the WR room in 2020 was arguably the key step in the Bills rise from Bills being a scrappy WC contender to a legit SB contender.

 

Sometimes it seems like Beane is the only one who doesn't understand what they'd actually done by building what at the time was a top 3 WR corps in the NFL around their young QB.

 

Teams have been trying to build top 5 WR corps to elevate their young or underperforming QB's ever since and it's working.

 

They need to get back there but they are chasing it now.........demand is up league-wide, UFA market is thin and there are less sure-thing types in the upcoming draft.........it won't be as easy to put it back together as it would have been to simply maintain it.

 

 

 

[SWATeam]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They need to get back there but they are chasing it now.........demand is up league-wide, UFA market is thin and there are less sure-thing types in the upcoming draft.........it won't be as easy to put it back together as it would have been to simply maintain it.

 

 

Wasn't it always your contention that because of the state of college football, they are just generating tons and tons of these receivers that you can get in pretty much any round and even teams practice squads are full of high end athletes at the position?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

I mean in that alternate reality where josh Allen was a bust we’d be drafting a lot earlier every year and we’d have more draft picks contributing early. People are kind of ignoring the fact that these are mostly late picks because our team is actually good now lol   
 

If you look at the chiefs who also have picked late for years/not always had first round picks, they’ve got a pretty similar thing going on.  The only meaningful player they got out of the 2020 and 2019 drafts was ljarius sneed. 2021 they hit on creed obviously and nick Bolton has been playing better this year.

then 2022 they unloaded tyreek and had a ton of picks that are all looking mediocre at best. it’s still very early in their careers of course. 

[Golden]

4 hours ago, balln said:

I find it very alarming that they draft

 

AJE - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

bills continue to sign and draft DL

 

Basham  - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

Bills continue to draft DB , sign DL

 

Elam - he’s health scratch despite rookie benford injured and tre white needing more time to come back 

 

Bernard - ooof what a bad pick. 

 

NO wr (aside from shakir who they don’t target) 

 

and we still have to sign or lure out of retirement players like x rhodes CB (who started over Elam who didn’t even dress). Klein Lb. Beasley and John brown. And then this fringe player DE Kingsley who looked more impactful in his FIRST GAME then ppl above

 

ALARMING. It’s part bad draft

selections / falling in love w process guys. Bad coaching decisions / they def play favorites. 

Painful present day truths.  Also considering Creed Humphrey was there to be had, does not make things much brighter 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Wasn't it always your contention that because of the state of college football, they are just generating tons and tons of these receivers that you can get in pretty much any round and even teams practice squads are full of high end athletes at the position?

 

The way the game was being called there was shaping up to be an abundance of players capable of being very productive WR in the NFL.    That should serve to lower costs.........but given the success of what the Bills did in 2020........it did not.

 

So I believe that the NFL owners decided last offseason to legislatively reign in the passing game to create financial separation between the WR1 and the pack of other receivers to stop the Gabe Davis types of the world from getting $20M Mike Williams deals.  

 

It's turned into an absolute mugging in the secondary all game this season.  It's been the year of the handsy CB........as evidenced by rookie mugger Sauce Gardner being the highest rated CB in the NFL by some metrics.    Meanwhile,  the amount of RB's with 1500 scrimmage yards or more will likely double this season.     

[Putin]

4 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

As far as the draft goes Unfortunately I have agree  , two 2nd  round picks and two 3rd in the past 3 years are just bad picks 

 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Basham looked dominant at times in the preseason and early in the regular season. I think it's too early to call him a bust as I think he still has some untapped potential. I bet he has a breakout season in the final year of his contract and gets paid elsewhere.

[frostbitmic]

Picking anyone other than Creed Humphrey at that spot would be a disappointment.

 

Boogie is ok, Creed is a top Center already and Centers help protect the franchise.

[Augie]

Hey! Look who’s in the running for #1 seed in the AFC! 

 

Every fan base can find things to complain about using their 20/20 hindsight glasses. I like the results.