Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[BillMafia716ix]

A team that’s 10-3. Probably on the verge of having the #1 seed and home field advantage doesn’t have offensive talent. Go figure 

[BananaB]

17 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

I know what will fix this.  How about we draft another DB or defensive lineman 🥴

 

 

It gotta be someone that takes 3 years to develop into a starter

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, BillMafia716ix said:

A team that’s 10-3. Probably on the verge of having the #1 seed and home field advantage doesn’t have offensive talent. Go figure 

They’ve got talent. Just not as much as some thought. Dorsey needs to scheme this offense up more effectively. He started off well, but teams caught up and he hasn’t added many wrinkles to offset that. 

[JerseyBills]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Whenever I think about this topic, I always come back to Dorsey. 

 

A good passing game is measured most easily by how many high quality, easy completions you get.   Yes, you gotta make the tough throws and catches, but it's the easy ones that you get over 250-300 yards a game.   

 

Easy completions come from route design, play calling, and execution.   A properly designed play called at the right time executed properly gets SOMEONE open for an easy toss and catch.   That's what seems to be missing in the Bills' passing game.  

 

Dorsey has the wrong play designs for the opponent, or he doesn't call them at the right time.  And if he has the right play at the right time, then he hasn't trained his quarterback and receivers to execute them.   

 

It's not about talent.  Davis is more than talented enough to be a competent #2, and McKenzie is talented enough to run routes like Beasley.  If they're running the routes wrong, well, what are coaches for?   

 

There are a few teams who have two true stud receivers, but not that many.  Smith-Schuster and Valdez-Scantling are ordinary NFL receivers - no one's idea of a good #1, but the Chiefs do a lot of damage in the air with a great QB and a great tight end and - play design and play calling.  

 

I think it's Dorsey.  

I'm beginning to think it's Dorsey too. I like that he moves Diggs around but besides that I prefer Dabol in his play calling creativity and timing 

 

Especially in the RZ, Dabol was very creative , I did love that Josh rushing TD off a PA but overall it seems like a very stale scheme and adding Hines in 2 back situations should be resulting in way more chunk plays.

 

At the same time, this board used to bash Dabol , the Jets were the 4th ranked d coming into yesterday and we're 10-3 with a top 5 scoring O and top 3 in yards but looking at a team like Philly, it makes you wonder why we can't execute like that. These are obviously sky high / SB expectations but Dorsey must get better. This is the 2nd game in 3 weeks where Diggs was barely targeted in the 1st half

[OrangeBills]

6 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

McDermott said post game that they thought the pass to Knox was worth the risk. He basically said he was involved in the decision which was the correct one. Josh just needs to run there or Knox needs to hold on to the ball that’s in his arms. 
 

Are you someone that blamed Daboll too? McDermott clearly has influence on what the offense does.

 

I liked the call, the route just needed to be 12 yards not 20 given the conditions.  Would have basically ended the game

 

[GolfandBills]

We were 7-6 last year at this point.  Offense this year has more points scored to this point than last year.  People get too caught up in the blowout wins.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by GolfandBills

[LeGOATski]

I have confidence in Knox. He hasn't been targeted as much, but the numbers show that defenses have given him plenty of cushion, he gets plenty of separation, and has a great catch rate.

 

Like others have said, his lack of use is on Dorsey and the offense design.

 

Talented offenses generally have the big three, some combination of QB and 2 star skill players.

 

Allen, Diggs, and Knox is a great big three.

[OrangeBills]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

not to pick on you but Beasley was a shell of himself his last year.  Keeping Beasley wasn't the answer but lil dirty has disappointed as his replacement- and i like lil dirty

 

Um, Beasley had 82 catches for nearly 700 yards and was #2 on the team last year...

 

His "replacements" are on pace for 50 catches 

[Beach]

Orlovsky and espn dont care if you agreee or not, they just want that click

[GoBills808]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Whenever I think about this topic, I always come back to Dorsey. 

 

A good passing game is measured most easily by how many high quality, easy completions you get.   Yes, you gotta make the tough throws and catches, but it's the easy ones that you get over 250-300 yards a game.   

 

Easy completions come from route design, play calling, and execution.   A properly designed play called at the right time executed properly gets SOMEONE open for an easy toss and catch.   That's what seems to be missing in the Bills' passing game.  

 

Dorsey has the wrong play designs for the opponent, or he doesn't call them at the right time.  And if he has the right play at the right time, then he hasn't trained his quarterback and receivers to execute them.   

 

It's not about talent.  Davis is more than talented enough to be a competent #2, and McKenzie is talented enough to run routes like Beasley.  If they're running the routes wrong, well, what are coaches for?   

 

There are a few teams who have two true stud receivers, but not that many.  Smith-Schuster and Valdez-Scantling are ordinary NFL receivers - no one's idea of a good #1, but the Chiefs do a lot of damage in the air with a great QB and a great tight end and - play design and play calling.  

 

I think it's Dorsey.  

Juju Smith Schuster had almost as many yards in one season as Davis has had in his whole career. 

[Pete]

Next draft I agree with many- the draft should be all about offense-specifically WR and OL.   Help Josh out.  
 

I’d like to see Bills add two WRs

-A-a true burner(John brown is filling that void now)

-B- a big, tough WR like Brown.

 

Add A and B to Diggs, Gabe, whomever 

 

Build up the offensive line.

 

Give Josh all that.  
No D is stopping that 

[Einstein's Dog]

17 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

We were 7-6 last year at this point.  Offense this year has more points scored to this point than last year.  People get too caught up in the blowout wins.  

You're not going to be able to stop the "Fire Dorsey" crowd with facts.  Although it was another comfortable win, pinball numbers were not obtained.

[Eastport bills]

3 games which the Bills could have easily won and lost by 8 pts combined results in the immediate downgrade by someone called Orlovsky, who I guarantee  knows less about our team than I do. It’s sad that fans start buying into these sensationalist musings of failed explayers who need to raise eyebrows to justify their exposure on a national TV show. We have a team that knows how to win games. The running attack is getting better as demonstrated in the NE game and Cleveland games. The passing attack is always Diggscentric because he’s the best receiver in football, but each week a different player becomes featured. McKenzie one week, Knox vs Jets, Davis has been productive in many games. Just remember, we play Northeast football which demands a running attack , valuing the football, field position, great physical defense  and good special teams. Josh gives us a tremendous advantage because when we spread the field, not only can he throw effectively in bad conditions but he runs for chunk plays and keeps drives going. Hey, when you are the 1 seed in the AFC, these analysts have to find reasons to discredit your efforts.

[GolfandBills]

15 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You're not going to be able to stop the "Fire Dorsey" crowd with facts.  Although it was another comfortable win, pinball numbers were not obtained.

Crazy how times have changed.  We’d be thrilled when offense scored 20 points or more.  Now if they don’t score 40 it’s Armageddon 

Edited December 12, 2022 by GolfandBills

[HaldimandBills]

90% of this league would struggle to put up 20 points against the Jets in pristine conditions yet we are complaining about the offense in a brutally wet slippery day. I was at the game. The conditions made me remember why I want a roof over the stands in the new stadium.

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, H2o said:

I agree on keeping Poyer and Edmunds. We don't have to worry about Oliver until 2024 because 2023 is 5th year option. JP is on a two year deal so will be here next year as well. Lawson should be able to be retained relatively cheap I would imagine. The main thing that HAS to be upgraded for Josh is the OL. He's running for his life more often than not, on basically every play. Yes I want another WR, but we HAVE to fix the OL. If it wasn't for Josh's mobility, they would be seen as one of the worst units in the NFL. 

 

Seriously upgrading the OL would solve many of the problems with the offense IMO.  It would make all the RBs better.  It would enable Allen to have more passing success by giving him more time to throw.  I'd like to see the Bills use a first or second round pick on a top quality OLer and at least one other pick in rounds 3-5 on an OLer.

[HaldimandBills]

Also completely ignored is the Bills have been dealing with Josh Allen's injured elbow, a snow storm that shut down practice for a week, a short week against a Lions team that's playing its best football of the season, and 3 road games in 12 days.

 

Last week the Bills went ultra conservative offensively against a Patriots team that had no hope of scoring on our defense. This isn't 2020 or College football. The Bills don't need to go for style victories, just victories. 

 

Better question is what AFC playoff team would fair better against Buffalo in those conditions? The answer is outside maybe the Bengals, no one. The Jets are by far the best equipped AFC team to play in those weather conditions and they still lost by 8 points.

[SoTier]

6 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:

Also completely ignored is the Bills have been dealing with Josh Allen's injured elbow, a snow storm that shut down practice for a week, a short week against a Lions team that's playing its best football of the season, and 3 road games in 12 days.

 

Last week the Bills went ultra conservative offensively against a Patriots team that had no hope of scoring on our defense. This isn't 2020 or College football. The Bills don't need to go for style victories, just victories. 

 

Better question is what AFC playoff team would fair better against Buffalo in those conditions? The answer is outside maybe the Bengals, no one. The Jets are by far the best equipped AFC team to play in those weather conditions and they still lost by 8 points.

 

IMO, winning close games late in the season is far better preparation for winning in the playoffs than cruising into the playoffs with a string of easy wins that make fans feel great but don't enable a team to develop the mental toughness needed to overcome adversity that surely appears during any run to the Super Bowl.

[TH3]

2 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

A team that’s 10-3. Probably on the verge of having the #1 seed and home field advantage doesn’t have offensive talent. Go figure 

Crazy….isn’t it

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Whenever I think about this topic, I always come back to Dorsey. 

 

A good passing game is measured most easily by how many high quality, easy completions you get.   Yes, you gotta make the tough throws and catches, but it's the easy ones that you get over 250-300 yards a game.   

 

Easy completions come from route design, play calling, and execution.   A properly designed play called at the right time executed properly gets SOMEONE open for an easy toss and catch.   That's what seems to be missing in the Bills' passing game.  

 

Dorsey has the wrong play designs for the opponent, or he doesn't call them at the right time.  And if he has the right play at the right time, then he hasn't trained his quarterback and receivers to execute them.   

 

It's not about talent.  Davis is more than talented enough to be a competent #2, and McKenzie is talented enough to run routes like Beasley.  If they're running the routes wrong, well, what are coaches for?   

 

There are a few teams who have two true stud receivers, but not that many.  Smith-Schuster and Valdez-Scantling are ordinary NFL receivers - no one's idea of a good #1, but the Chiefs do a lot of damage in the air with a great QB and a great tight end and - play design and play calling.  

 

I think it's Dorsey.  

Bills beat KC right?

4 hours ago, corta765 said:

The Pats game I thought was a bit of a break through as they routinely were eating yards on 1st and 2nd down which made 3rd really manageable and Buffalo was very successful. The Pats have a very good D so I was hopeful that it might translate to another strong game against the Jets. Unfortunately yesterday felt like a step back and more of what we saw vs CLE/DET where mistakes from OL, drops, and a few Josh decisions limited drives.  

 

Buffalo's offense when operating at full capacity and clicking is incredibly dangerous. But I think these things have limited them: 

 

-Dorsey 1st year. As much as we wanted to hope Dorsey would be perfect year 1 he has had growing pains and outside of matching weekly the performance of the Bills in the playoffs I think expectations were always going to be unrealistically high. With that said at times the offense has looked stale or predictable and he hasn't at times used his playmakers to the full extent. With that said...

-Injuries. The OL has been a turnstile which is never easy to build a group, the WR corp has went from a strength to question mark at times due to injury, and Josh himself getting hurt only further complicated things. Crowder was meant to be a dependable security blanket and we got 3 and 1/2 games out of him.

-Drops. If my fat a$$ on the couch is getting frustrated when Josh throws a simple toss two yards up for a RB to take for YAC and it is dropped, I can't imagine what he feels after a while. The last few years it felt like it was on Josh to get the ball to his dudes and they could make a play, this year has felt like Josh is hitting you in the hands and you didn't catch it?

-Gabe Davis. I hate singingly guys out as football has so many factors and influence of your teammates on what you do, but the team bet he could grow into a true #2 option. Instead he is at that awful middle ground of WR2/3 where he could finish the year with 1000 yards 7 TD's yet you feel let down. He has dropped enough balls where it feels like Josh doesn't trust him him the way you hoped. 

 

With this said while the Bills offense is probably not the world destroying juggernaut we maybe all hoped, they still are a very good unit that just has flaws and limitations like a lot of other good offenses past and present. 17 gives them a ceiling that allows for so much belief to be justified and that is enough for me despite frustrations at times. With that said even if they win the SB I would expect some revisions at WR and OL this offseason to switch things up vs keeping the band together as they had for the last 3 seasons.

As soon as the Bills get these straightened out….they can string some wins together and make a run to get into the playoffs

[DrDawkinstein]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But the major difference is the Chiefs offense is getting better. Maybe it’s just the Allen injury but this offense has been off for like a month now. 

 

9 hours ago, Process said:

They have a better o line and Andy Ried which makes a huge difference 

 

9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Mahomes almost gave the game away with 3!!!! INT's yesterday in a game they led 27-0 at one point against the worst offense in football by a mile.

 

Speaking of the Chiefs, lets check in on how their fans are doing...

 

Ah yes, so same as Bills fans.

 

Everyone take a breath. Bills have work to do and room for improvement, but no one is really happy with their team right now. Except maybe Eagle fans, but Im not sure they are ever really happy.