Rigotz Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 I've seen a lot of this lately: Doom and gloom and "boo hoo, our season is over, I'll never forgive for the 13 seconds" ... So, I wanted to to draw a picture of exactly where we stand this year vs last year, from a roster perspective. OFFENSE: QB 2022: Josh Allen QB 2021: Josh Allen Same RB 2022: James Cook + Devin Singletary + Nyheim Hines RB 2021: Devin Singletary + Zach Moss + Matt Breida Significant Upgrade WR 2022: Stefon Diggs + Gabriel Davis + Isaiah McKenzie + Khalil Shakir WR 2021: Stefon Diggs + Gabriel Davis + Isaiah McKenzie + Cole Beasley + Emmanuel Sanders Slight Downgrade: Sanders had a maximum of 36 yards in the last 5 games and Beasley had a max of 35 outside of the KC game (60) TE 2022: Dawson Knox TE 2021: Dawson Knox Same LT 2022: Dion Dawkins LT 2021: Dion Dawkins LG 2022: Rodger Saffold LG 2021: Jon Feliciano / Daryl Williams (swapped to RG later) C 2022: Mitch Morse C 2021: Mitch Morse RG 2022: Rick Bates RG 2021: Rick Bates RT 2022: Spencer Brown RT 2021: Spencer Brown Slight Upgrade: Bates and Brown have more experience gelling and Saffold > Feliciano/Williams DEFENSE: CB 2022: Tre White, Kaiir Elam, Dane Jackson, Christian Benford (expected back for playoffs) CB 2021: Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson, Nick McCloud, Olaijah Griffin, ??? Significant Upgrade Safety 2022: Jordan Poyer + Demar Hamlin Safety 2021: Jordan Poyer + Micah Hyde Significant Downgrade DT 2022: Ed Oliver, DaQuan Jones, Jordan Phillips, Tim Settle, CJ Brewer DT 2021: Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Harrison Phillips, Efe Obada, Vernon Butler Significant Upgrade DE 2022: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Shaq Lawson, AJ Epenesa DE 2021: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes, AJ Epenesa Slight Downgrade? Rousseau is significantly better in 2022 and Boogie, AJ, and Shaq have been decent role players LB 2022: Matt Milano, Tremaine Edmunds, AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson, Terrel Bernard LB 2021: Matt Milano, Tremaine Edmunds, AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson Slight Upgrade: Milano and Edmunds are playing their best ball and depth has improved Punter + Kicker 2022: Bass + Haack Punter + Kicker 2021: Bass + Martin Better, but meh PR/KR 2022: Nyheim Hines PR/KR 2021: Isaiah McKenzie Slight Upgrade Other important considerations: - Bills are currently the #1 seed. They were 7-6 at this point last season. - The Chiefs are arguably the Bills biggest threats this year in the AFC and they lost Tyreek Hill. - The Bills have looked absolutely dominant for the vast majority of the season. So ... RIGHT NOW, better team, better record, better seeding, arguably worse competition. Why are we even talking about 2021 as our best chance or last chance? 7 1 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Yeah, just a bunch of babies spouting "13 seconds" every few minutes like it is the ultimate trump card. Get over it. Get over yourself. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rigotz said: Why are we even talking about 2021 as our best chance or last chance? Because it very well might have been? I had Nate’s reaction instantly on that night. Everything overwhelmed me - that we blew that game like that; that you may never get this close; that we are truly cursed; that the joy on my sons face turning to absolute devastation 10 minutes after we were jumping around like kids; and that your entire staff may never live it down. All of it at once in an instant. Now obviously you have to mix that with a lot more - logic? And time has passed and I agree with everything about the team. It is good enough to win the whole thing without Von. The Bengals #1 CB is out for the year. They ain’t complaining. I will not hold it against anyone that feels how Nate does. It doesn’t mean McD has to go absolutely not. It just means - he better win the whole f***ing thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, MJS said: Yeah, just a bunch of babies spouting "13 seconds" every few minutes like it is the ultimate trump card. Get over it. Get over yourself. Fans are going to hang onto 13 seconds until they go further and lose or they win a title. I get it because it is what fans do and given our history a lot of damage is there. Doesn't mean its 100% accurate and for some fans its more of a defense for their own emotions. If you don't subscribe to it and think they will be great despite Von out more power to you. The team itself has seemed to move on in a pretty big way, so the most important folks are not showing any impact. 2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Because it very well might have been? I had Nate’s reaction instantly on that night. Everything overwhelmed me - that we blew that game like that; that you may never get this close; that we are truly cursed; that the joy on my sons face turning to absolute devastation 10 minutes after we were jumping around like kids; and that your entire staff may never live it down. All of it at once in an instant. I guess I never could get that broken up on it. IF the Bills would've won they still had a task at hand to beat Cincy to even make the SB before actually then having to seal the deal. I understand it felt like they are unstoppable etc.. but KC thought the same heading into that week against CIN and proceeded to lose at home in a game no one saw them blowing. It def sucked and was a bummer, it also was the best game I have watched and 17s play gave me more resolve then I have ever had as a Bills fan he will help win a title. If they do not win a title ever with 17 then maybe I look back differently on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 13 seconds assumed we'd win two more games including a team that beat KC, and then another game against a team that beat the team that beat KC. It's always been a ludicrous point. Still on to this year - the team in general is maybe a push compared to where they were last year. Allen is playing significantly worse Singletary is slightly underperforming Cook is overperforming Moss Diggs is a push and the rest of our WR & TE group is underperforming OL is a slight upgrade DL is a slight upgrade LB is a push CB I have as a push until white gets back to form Safety is a downgrade Special teams is a slight upgrade Coaching is a push to slight downgrade. I don't see any evidence that this coaching staff learned a thing between this year and last, and I see absolutely no reason to believe that we'll be in any better position to win a super bowl this year than we were last year except if we get lucky and the train falls off the tracks for the teams around us. Despite our talent being more or less equal to last year on paper, we are playing much worse football. The last time we had a dominant performance was week 5. If we can hold a first round bye, that puts us in position to face either the Ravens, Bengals and Titans in round 2 and then the Chiefs in the championship game. I like our odds to beat both Ravens and Titans with the Bengals being a coinflip and then another coinflip against KC. If Dallas or Minn make the Super Bowl, I think those are both coin flips too. I'd give us a slight edge against Philly, Seattle or SF. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 The Bills D has been loaded with excellent players. The downside is that almost any injury to a defensive player takes out an excellent player, and that necessarily degrades their overall capability. The upside is that there are still nearly as many excellent players after the injury as there were before. The combos of Poyer and Hyde, and Edmunds and Milano, are both poetry. Violent poetry, but still beautiful. Take out Hyde, and there are still excellent players around. But take out either Edmunds or Milano or Poyer, in addition to Hyde, and the amount of degradation increases exponentially. The Bills can win without Hyde and Miller. If they lose one or two more of their excellent core, they won't be nearly as good. Fingers crossed the injuries to key players are over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) I think Rhodes is going to be the guy at opposite Tre. This will help with the loss of Hyde. He’ll always be in good position. Hamlin has already replaced Hyde very well. That isn’t an issue. In fact his physical nature could help in the playoffs. Made a poor read vs NE on the screen. That was his first major mistake I feel. Poyer roaming around with Hamlin works. We’ll be a more physical defensive unit in the playoffs. The coaching staff will likely have to dial up key blitzes. I don’t know if the front 4 will get the pressure. At WR I think Crowder will be ready for the playoffs. John Brown will be fresh. Sanders and Beasley were both at the end. I think this is a draw. Edited December 9, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 They blew their best opportunity and rightful next step in their playoff progression. Worst part is they had a mostly healthy and ascending team at playoff time and were just that close to hosting the AFC championship. The sentiment in the original tweet is justified and valid. It’ll be incredibly difficult to gain another opportunity like that especially with the Chiefs likely to be #1 seed again this year. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 47 minutes ago, Airseven said: They blew their best opportunity and rightful next step in their playoff progression. Worst part is they had a mostly healthy and ascending team at playoff time and were just that close to hosting the AFC championship. The sentiment in the original tweet is justified and valid. It’ll be incredibly difficult to gain another opportunity like that especially with the Chiefs likely to be #1 seed again this year. The Bills have the #1 seed and tie breaker over Chiefs. Even if Chiefs get the #1 seed, it still means the Bills are on the same path as last year. How will it be "incredibly difficult" to gain another opportunity? It actually seems very likely they get the same opportunity. 2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think Rhodes is going to be the guy at opposite Tre. This will help with the loss of Hyde. He’ll always be in good position. Hamlin has already replaced Hyde very well. That isn’t an issue. In fact his physical nature could help in the playoffs. Made a poor read vs NE on the screen. That was his first major mistake I feel. Poyer roaming around with Hamlin works. We’ll be a more physical defensive unit in the playoffs. The coaching staff will likely have to dial up key blitzes. I don’t know if the front 4 will get the pressure. At WR I think Crowder will be ready for the playoffs. John Brown will be fresh. Sanders and Beasley were both at the end. I think this is a draw. I think CB is the biggest difference here. The impact from the loss of Tre last year has been understated in my opinion. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 I appreciate this attempt. I am not so sure each review is the same as I would think about it. For example, you score the offensive line as being a slight upgrade because of RG. This does not take into account the mediocrity consistency can bring with it. For example, Spencer Brown’s return to the line-up….consistency is not always a good thing. Improvement in these areas is always the goal. I could go into detail about the obvious lack of assets and attention certain positions receiving compared to others, but we all know what they are. Instead, I think the bigger picture is that this year is still VERY real. We are a different team this season, and will take a different path to get to the promised land. The pieces we’ve added and lost will factor in, as it will with other teams too. If we are lucky enough to get the Chiefs again in the playoffs, we won’t sit here all week talking about how they are worse because they don’t have Tyrek Hill, or Hiney Badger. We’ll instead be taking about what they do have and how we match up and what can be done to stifle their team. I will forever remain salty over 13 seconds. However it will fade into the distance with success this year and we won’t have to hear about it from grumpy fans or sarcastic color analysts every time someone gets the ball at the end of half/game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Bass is not meh. Bass was NFL special teams player of the month last month and what the Haack? Getting rid of Shankman is a huge plus! A punter that can actually punt is a huge win 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPJax Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 15 hours ago, Rigotz said: I've seen a lot of this lately: Doom and gloom and "boo hoo, our season is over, I'll never forgive for the 13 seconds" ... So, I wanted to to draw a picture of exactly where we stand this year vs last year, from a roster perspective. OFFENSE: QB 2022: Josh Allen QB 2021: Josh Allen Same RB 2022: James Cook + Devin Singletary + Nyheim Hines RB 2021: Devin Singletary + Zach Moss + Matt Breida Significant Upgrade WR 2022: Stefon Diggs + Gabriel Davis + Isaiah McKenzie + Khalil Shakir WR 2021: Stefon Diggs + Gabriel Davis + Isaiah McKenzie + Cole Beasley + Emmanuel Sanders Slight Downgrade: Sanders had a maximum of 36 yards in the last 5 games and Beasley had a max of 35 outside of the KC game (60) TE 2022: Dawson Knox TE 2021: Dawson Knox Same LT 2022: Dion Dawkins LT 2021: Dion Dawkins LG 2022: Rodger Saffold LG 2021: Jon Feliciano / Daryl Williams (swapped to RG later) C 2022: Mitch Morse C 2021: Mitch Morse RG 2022: Rick Bates RG 2021: Rick Bates RT 2022: Spencer Brown RT 2021: Spencer Brown Slight Upgrade: Bates and Brown have more experience gelling and Saffold > Feliciano/Williams DEFENSE: CB 2022: Tre White, Kaiir Elam, Dane Jackson, Christian Benford (expected back for playoffs) CB 2021: Levi Wallace, Dane Jackson, Nick McCloud, Olaijah Griffin, ??? Significant Upgrade Safety 2022: Jordan Poyer + Demar Hamlin Safety 2021: Jordan Poyer + Micah Hyde Significant Downgrade DT 2022: Ed Oliver, DaQuan Jones, Jordan Phillips, Tim Settle, CJ Brewer DT 2021: Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Harrison Phillips, Efe Obada, Vernon Butler Significant Upgrade DE 2022: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Shaq Lawson, AJ Epenesa DE 2021: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes, AJ Epenesa Slight Downgrade? Rousseau is significantly better in 2022 and Boogie, AJ, and Shaq have been decent role players LB 2022: Matt Milano, Tremaine Edmunds, AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson, Terrel Bernard LB 2021: Matt Milano, Tremaine Edmunds, AJ Klein, Tyrel Dodson Slight Upgrade: Milano and Edmunds are playing their best ball and depth has improved Punter + Kicker 2022: Bass + Haack Punter + Kicker 2021: Bass + Martin Better, but meh PR/KR 2022: Nyheim Hines PR/KR 2021: Isaiah McKenzie Slight Upgrade Other important considerations: - Bills are currently the #1 seed. They were 7-6 at this point last season. - The Chiefs are arguably the Bills biggest threats this year in the AFC and they lost Tyreek Hill. - The Bills have looked absolutely dominant for the vast majority of the season. So ... RIGHT NOW, better team, better record, better seeding, arguably worse competition. Why are we even talking about 2021 as our best chance or last chance? Well , I guess if you want to call coming from behind with 23 seconds left dominant , we see things differently. We also were never 1-2 in the AFC east and only lost in a blizzard to the pats in the east last year. Yes we are the 1 seed now, but we have a tough schedule with the much improved Jets( who beat us with a 2nd year coaching staff and qb who has been benched for underperforming) very. Competitive fins ( who beat us with a rookie head coach, not very Belicheck like) and peaking Bengals ( who have played in one more Super Bowl with their staff than ours and have 3 wins over KC leading to thatSuper bowl ) all left to play. Two of those teams , the fins and Bengals have good passing attacks, exactly the thing Miller was brought in to help close games out against. So the Chiefs lost hill , but he has done better and plays on the team that beat us this year , against our weaker safeties according to your own breakdown. He actually set up the game winning td beating those safeties you rated as a SIGNIFICANT downgrade! We can’t lose to them again and Expect to hold the 1/seed and coukd easily drop to a wildcard team. Wildcard teams seldom win superbowls. Josh has lead the league in ints which I don’t think happened last year. He also is likely playing with an elbow more likely to affect and could easily be more easily injured again , especially behind this line who is having issues staying healthy. So Josh may not yet be the same as last year. The o line, outside of health , has had technique issues if you believe prior Bills pros Fina and ostroski. Not sure that’s an improved area. Brown also did not play with back surgery last year, do you actually think he has been better this year ? We have a rookie OC. I would call that a slight downgrade come playoff time where experience plays a larger role. Our lack of scoring tds in the second half and red zone inefficiency with more turnovers is concerning. I agree we have a better record now , but WORSE competition just doesn’t make sense as we still face two teams who beat us this year but not last year , and a sneaky good Bengals team ( away I think ) who will prob be leading their division and playing for seeding. Again these are good passing teams and now our sack leader , the guy brought in to “ close “ games by getting sacks ( and he is our sack leader) is gone for the remainder of the regular season and the playoffs when we MIGHT once again face mahomes in KC , whom Miller was specifically paid to solve mahomes escaping the pocket and making off platform plays. Additionally , Reid has had mcds and our DC’s number in playoff time. I do agree our run game may be improving right at the perfect time. We need that to offset our receiving corp performing about the same as last year when we were expecting significant improvement. Diggs tho is responsible for the majority if that as he is having an all world year! The balanced attack we saw against the Pats , if continued , could really answer be a huge boost in our chance for playoff success. The bottom line tho is the W/ L record and by that measure we are better , but that’s just a snapshot in time and we have our toughest schedule ahead and have yet to play a full game without Von! Your arguments about seeding, worse competition, our record , etc are all theoretical at this point and COULD all be the exact opposite of what you are using as an argument! The 13 seconds was a real thing , real lead, with us playing the afc championship at home if we held on those 13 seconds ! So talk to us about how good our actual chances are when we get an afc championship game AT HOME, because until we are leading again with the next game being the championship game at home in Buffalo , YES , SO FAR THAT WAS OUR BEST CHANCE TO GET BACK TO THE SUPERBOWL! 2021 was our best chance in years , as we were never really close to winning the afc championship game in KC the year earlier. In contrast, Josh had Played two almost perfect playoff games in 2021! That doesn’t mean we can’t be better this year , and with Josh as our QB , of course it’s not our last chance. But you can’t argue we have a better shot this year as your entire argument , outside of us having a better record RIGHT NOW , is entirely theoretical and the guy who Beane thought would get us over that last hurdle of KC ( and Kelsey who we still don’t limit well ) is GONE and he WAS actually involved in the game winning int earlier in the year. Let’s talk when we beat the jets, fins , bengals, and are playing KC in Buffalo in the afc championship game! Then we can fully put 2021 behind us forever and just talk about our miracle season of 2022 when we actually won our first Lombardi! That’s when your post will have some validity and be based on the facts of reality ! Go Bills. Happy holidays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 At this point in the season last year the Bills were heading to TB after losing to the Pats in the wind game. Just making the playoffs was in question and the division seemed lost. The Bills are in much better shape at this point in 2022. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JY422 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 This whole “the-sky-is-falling” mentality is so weak. The great thing about the NFL is the unpredictable nature of each game. Literally every game matters. Just ask the ‘07 Pats. Just ask Sean McVay after last night’s comeback. You gonna tell me the joy on his face was not real even though the win brought his team’s record up to a lowly 4-9? The Bills are battle tested and have a core coaching staff and roster full of players who have seen and done it all. They all BLEED Bills red, white and blue and they all give their 110% for each other and for us as fans. That’s all we can ask for. 13 seconds be damned. I’m gonna enjoy this ride. Regardless of how this season or next season or the season after ends, we’ll all be glad we were there to watch as Josh, Diggs, Tre, Milano, Po, Hyde, Oliver, Dawkins and the rest of this core gave everything they had on and off the field for our team and our community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsflyer12 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 These great LBs can’t stay healthy. Is it to early to say Milano is injury prone? Think I heard a stat that only 4 games this season did both Edmonds and Milano start and finish a game together. It appears Milano doesn’t like to play the Jets as he is likely out this week again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 They were the favourites heading into the season & still should be. I don't want to hear excuses. As said the Bills have been off since the bye (something seemed to happen come the second half vs. GB), but no reason they shouldn't "return to form". An earlier thread said from 2002-19 the AFGC was represented by Manning Brady & Roethlisberger all but 2X's. 2020-21 Mahomes & Burrow in 2022. I will be very upset with anything less then a SB appearance by Buffalo (and yes Josh Allen can start that run like above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Geary is just about at the point where GR dumps him for a cheap intern, and he ends up selling advertising for Yelp, or similar service. 🤨 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) TE 2022: Dawson Knox TE 2021: Dawson Knox Slight downgrade he would need 7 TDs and 250 TDs in the next five games to match 2021. Also he only played 15 games last year… Edited December 9, 2022 by quinnearlysghost88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 You can do a deep dive into the roster but in the end it’s coming down to Allen v Mahomes for the third year in a row. (You could get Allen v Burrow tossed in there as well.) Remember all of those epic QB duels by other team’s superstars during the drought, and how it didn’t seem possible the Bills would ever be one of those teams? So here we are. Enjoy the ride! Go Bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Geary is just about at the point where GR dumps him for a cheap intern, and he ends up selling advertising for Yelp, or similar service. 🤨 Jerry Sullivan needs a partner in Niagara Falls for his previous partner seemed to have retired when they were let go at Buffalo News. Yes there is issue with water in Niagara Falls known for decreasing mental capacity but he does not have much to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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