Pushing teammates forward. Should it be legal or not?

[Chaos]

It makes the game a worse product in my opinion. I wish it would stop. 

[Brueggs]

I was OK with it when Gabe Davis was getting behind Josh to make a push.  Its definitely situational football, but its becoming more prevalent lately for sure.  Teams are always finding new ways to make plays, even when the evolution seems to be going backwards. 

[BuffBillsForLife]

Meet in the middle, have it be legal if it's one skill position player doing it but if it's multiple players or a lineman it's a penalty.

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

Meet in the middle, have it be legal if it's one skill position player doing it but if it's multiple players or a lineman it's a penalty.

Why? What is wrong with it?

[Success]

I have a hunch it won't be allowed next year.  It's much more like rugby. I'm not a fan.

 

[MJS]

9 minutes ago, Chaos said:

It makes the game a worse product in my opinion. I wish it would stop. 

It makes it a better product, in my opinion. More variety and ways to move the ball. Seems like a silly thing to restrict.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Success said:

I have a hunch it won't be allowed next year.  It's much more like rugby. I'm not a fan.

 

 

As Belichick would say, if you don’t like it….stop it. (Ohhh, I feel so dirty!) 

 

I like the passing game, but I also like power football. They need to blow the whistle ASAP when progress ends, but as long as it’s moving forward, your guys need to stop our guys and the pile. You want to go with 220 lb LB’s? You pay the price. It adds to the strategy of team building. 

 

 

 

Full Disclosure: I could change my mind before the next commercial.  🤷‍♂️

[TheBrownBear]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Suppose that in the AFC championship game, the Bills only need to stop an opponent on 4th down to seal a victory.

They call the perfect defense, the defenders execute, and two linebackers converge on the opposing ball-carrier 1 yard deep in the backfield, stopping him definitively for a loss. The defenders begin to ease up just the slightest bit, figuring the play is dead and they don't want to risk a personal foul. But the refs don't blow the whistle, so three of the opponent's teammates run up to the player and push him forward for a 1st down.

Perfect playcall, perfect execution, but the subjectivity of when to blow the whistle leads to the play continuing, and the ball carrier happens to have more guys around to push him forward than the defense does to push him backward. The playcall and execution are moot, and sheer numbers and brute strength win out, with aid to referee subjectivity.

Would you still feel it's a non-issue?

I agree 100% with you.  I don't like it and think it needs to be addressed in the offseason.  It isn't modern football (which I think of as a perfect mix of both physical strength/athleticism, strategy and execution).

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Not only should pushing teammates be allowed, but I believe picking teammates up and tossing them should be allowed as well. I think Dawkins and Brown could sling Little Dirty into the end zone from seven yards out.

Love it!  I finally have a path to the NFL!  

[K-9]

31 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

I was OK with it when Gabe Davis was getting behind Josh to make a push.  Its definitely situational football, but its becoming more prevalent lately for sure.  Teams are always finding new ways to make plays, even when the evolution seems to be going backwards. 

There will come a time when we show that Davis look, Josh will fake a lunge into the line, step back, and hit Knox, Diggs, or an eligible tackle with a quick strike. 

[Andy1]

I’d vote for not allowing it. At some point an OC like Greg Roman is going to take it all the way and start designing plays specifically for this sort of mass movement down the field. Surround the RB with a bunch of big linemen and everyone move together in formation. That’s not going to look like modern football.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

I’d vote for not allowing it. At some point an OC like Greg Roman is going to take it all the way and start designing plays specifically for this sort of mass movement down the field. Surround the RB with a bunch of big linemen and everyone move together in formation. That’s not going to look like modern football.

 

Congrats, you invented the basic running play.

[zow2]

I’m fine with the pushing until progress is stopped or the runner is down.  and i’m fine with flagging any pulling of a teammate. So i think they got this rule correct.

[CoudyBills]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

As I watched multiple games on Sunday, it was impossible to ignore.

In game after game, players were stopped by a horde of defenders, only for a group of their teammates to rally to the pile, pushing the whole mass of humanity for an extra 3-7 yards.

When it happens, it looks less like pro football and more like a rugby scrum.

I've been reading a book called How Football Became Football: 150 Years of the Game's Evolution, and in it, I learned that American football used to look a lot like what we've seen recently: huge piles of humanity pushing on each other, fighting for every yard. Basically, it wasn't far removed from rugby when it began. Players even had loops sewn onto their pants for a time for their teammates to grab onto to either push or pull them more easily.

One of the earliest debates in football was how to spread the game out, make it less dangerous, and less of a tedious "three yards and a cloud of dust" affair. These "momentum plays", as they called them, lead to a ton of injuries, and to a frankly ugly, more brutish, less exciting form of football. The ability of a running back or receiver to gain yardage is de-emphasized in favor of the ability of a group of players to push harder than another group of players. 

After years of this ugly, rugby-style pile pushing, rule changes in football eventually disallowed it. For most of the history of modern pro football as we know it, pushing or pulling the pile in the manner we have recently seen has not been allowed. In 2006, a rule change made pushing the pile legal again (though pulling is still technically not legal). For whatever reason, it took until this season for it to really become as common and prevalent as it has. 

The question is, should it be allowed? Are these big pile-push scrums really American Football? I'm curious to know how other football fans feel about this issue.

Should be illegal, like it used to be.  

[Rock'em Sock'em]

If you can block a defender downfield, you might as well be able to block a pile.  It makes for an interesting play.  I'm unaware of anyone getting hurt on this style of play. though I'm sure it's happened.  If ever there is enough data to indicate that this style of play is significantly more injury prone compared to an average play, then adjust the rules.

[WotAGuy]

It’s all fun and games until someone gets sexually harassed in the scrum pile. 

[Dopey]

I don’t mind it. As long as they push the pile as apposed to launching yourself into a pile or a player’s back. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

If you can block a defender downfield, you might as well be able to block a pile.  It makes for an interesting play.  I'm unaware of anyone getting hurt on this style of play. though I'm sure it's happened.  If ever there is enough data to indicate that this style of play is significantly more injury prone compared to an average play, then adjust the rules.

 

That is how Oliver got hurt against the Rams.  He is making a tackle and the OL with head of steam drives right into the back of the RB bowling the defender over and Oliver got his foot caught.

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

I don't like the scrum coming back but I don't want a rule that tells a player not to get involved in a play. I also prefer less flags so I guess the only way to stop from getting out of hand is for the forward motion be stopped quicker by officials 

[JoPoy88]

I really don’t think this is a big of an issue as some in here are making it out to be. 
 

It is an issue with in very limited cases, where defenders stack up a runner, stop his forward momentum, and then pushes come in from savvy linemen. But the issue is with officials not during their jobs, not with the pushers. Defense did their jobs standing a ball carrier up and stopping him even if he doesn’t go down.  Should be whistled dead at that point.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

No it shouldn't be allowed.  

You could write a rule a couple of ways. 

You could specifically write the rule for QB's.  Once they are touched from behind by someone on his team, the play is stopped at the point the contact began. Just like the yardage is marked when the QB initiates his slide not where it ends.  This would eliminate the QB getting pushed on sneaks because the ball would be short of the line to gain. 

Or you could write the rule that when a player is not engaged with a defender he can not be propelled forward with a push or pull.  Once engaged with a defender all bets are off.  This would effectively eliminate a QB or RB getting pushed from behind in a short yardage situation right at the beginning of the play but still allows some of the scrums we see every week where forward momentum is not stopped.