Gabe Davis Ankle ???

[Simon]

If your title is going to be the name of a Bills player and the word "ankle", could you pretty please put a question mark on it so I don't involuntarily punch myself in the forehead before I open it up to see if he's actually hurt?

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Gabe does not seem to be getting us much separation since the ankle injury.  Anybody know anything?  Gabe is a gamer, would not surprise me if it is still not right.  I think he could have a nice stretch run with this mini-bye to get healthy.  We need him to relieve more pressure from Diggs, IMHO.

 

So Gabe was injured Sat. in practice before our Mon. night Week 2 game, correct?  He missed that game, Week 2.

He was then questionable for Week 3 and 4 with limited or no participation, but played, and was plainly gimping through it and hampered.

He had FP, no game status, and a great game vs. Pittsburgh

Has not appeared on the injury report since Pittsburgh

 

Has had strong games against KC, Minn, and Cle, the lowest of which (Cle) would project out to 1000 yd, 100 catch season.

 

So....is his ankle hobbling him selectively in a way which does not limit practice or place him on injury report, or, what's your theory?

 

It's possible that his ankle still isn't right and he's not performing at his athletic peak, but to that one has to say: we were told that last year after he was injured in 1 and "questionable" for Game 2, that even though he wasn't on injury report and had no game status the rest of the season, he was actually hampered through ~week 8.

So if this is a repeating pattern of injuring an ankle early in the season and not being able to contribute up to his potential - maybe he's not the guy we need to pay as a #2.

 

I will say this: I haven't watched the details of how he's running every route.  Maybe there are nuances he could improve.  But from what I've seen, we have an "Allen throwing to Gabe Davis when he's pretty heavily covered and it's a high degree of difficulty catch" problem, not a "Gabe Davis Can't Run" problem

 

[Big Turk]

18 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Madden related? Get outta here. 
 

He was primed to take that next step. It hasn’t really worked out that way, but one only has to look at our division rivals the Dolphins to see a realistic comp of what people were expecting. 
 

Everyone was saying the same thing you are about the Bills. Only so many balls to go around, etc. Waddle certainly has the edge on Gabe, but the Bills have Josh. His ridiculous arm, and play extending legs in a pass happy offense should have been more than enough to stay on par with those two. Not unrealistic, imo. 

 

 

That's because people have very unrelistic expectations based not in reality. This was never going to happen.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's because people have very unrelistic expectations based not in reality 

Gabe ranks 72nd in the NFL in catches tied with Saquon Barkley and Isaiah McKenzie. What is unrealistic about expecting more catches than that from a #2 WR on a high octane passing offense with a top 5 QB?

 

I agree with you that the expectation from the Bills WR group should not be “better than healthy Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins.” That’s probably the best duo in the game. But Gabe has struggled with consistency.

[folz]

I am still a believer in Gabe Davis, despite agreeing that his season has not been as big of a break out year as most of us expected.

 

My questions would be:

1. Has the ankle been a lingering issue? Was out week 2 and severely hampered by it in weeks 3 and 4, but then it seemed to be better for the Steelers and KC games, and then he got the bye. I wouldn't expect it to still be an issue at this point, unless he kept tweaking it throughout the season. I've had two severe ankle sprains in my life and each time (even after it had for the most part healed), I kept tweaking it here and there for months after. It took a while to build back full strength and support.

 

2. Where is Gabe? Where is Knox? Where has McKenzie been (before the NE game)? Could some of their disappearance be Dorsey's play calling? This is a question, not a statement. Has Dorse had a harder time scheming these guys open than Daboll did for some reason? I don't think these players all of a sudden became bad. None of them are superstars, but we all feel that they haven't lived up to their projections thus far. Could it be a scheme/playcalling issue rather than they just all suck? How many of Gabe's receptions last year (especially his TDs) was he literally all alone (having left some DB 5-10 yards in the dust)? What is different this year?

 

3. Did Josh's elbow affect all WR production (sans Diggs) for a few weeks?

 

And yet, despite, the ankle (missing one game and being severely hampered in two others), the drops, a new OC, and a QB who wasn't quite himself for a few weeks, he is still putting up solid #2 WR stats. Not as spectacular as we all expected, but I do think he'll come around down the stretch.

 

 

Also, TBD loves their whipping boys/scapegoats. When things are going wrong, posters love to point to one or two players as the main reasons (rather than it being a full team issue). Look at how many posters would have gladly traded Tremaine away last year. That would have been a mistake, obviously. This year its Gabe, Dane, etc. I have no problem discussing player's short-comings, mistakes, areas that need improvement, etc. But I do think it is unproductive to just continually say a guy sucks and see everything he does that way.

 

Take for instance, this last game against NE. How many posters started trashing Gabe (about drops, etc.) when he didn't reel in his first three targets on Thursday? But, you know what? All three of those were bad balls from Josh. You could debate the pass in the end zone because Gabe did get his hands/finger tips on it, but Josh led him too much. The first ball was in the dirt. And the sideline pass would have taken him out of bounds (if Josh put it on his inside shoulder instead of outside shoulder, it could have been a big play). I'm not knocking Josh, not every pass is going to be perfect. But I'm sure a lot of posters saw those all as bad drops by Gabe (Davis sucks), rather than Josh being a little off with his throws. Was anyone saying Diggs sucks when he dropped that low pass from Josh on 3rd down in the 2nd half? Diggs also had a huge drop in the Vikings game.

 

And let's face it, the onside kick that Gabe muffed against the Browns was a very difficult ball (great kick right at his feet) that I'm not even sure Micah would have corralled. But to others, just another reason for Gabe sucking. Glad he got some redemption, snagging the onside kick in NE. But, once you put on the "this player sucks" glasses, that's all you'll see, whether it is true or not.

 

Having said all of that, I do agree that Gabe needs to step up his game and I think he will, but the constant trashing of him is getting old, imo.

Edited December 3, 2022 by folz

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

That's why OBJ is currently in WNY.

 

He is?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Bills fans just have this mentality to always look for a reason and defend at all costs. 

 

He’s not a rookie, 6/11 games below 40-yards. One 100+ yard game. 
 

It’s okay to say he’s been a disappointment. 
 

The big play is still there, the nose for the end zone is still there, you’re just not getting many dynamic plays with him running full speed, breaking tackles, or routine plays. 
 

He looks like he has remained a specialist. 
 

 

 

 

[Big Turk]

38 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Gabe ranks 72nd in the NFL in catches tied with Saquon Barkley and Isaiah McKenzie. What is unrealistic about expecting more catches than that from a #2 WR on a high octane passing offense with a top 5 QB?

 

I agree with you that the expectation from the Bills WR group should not be “better than healthy Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins.” That’s probably the best duo in the game. But Gabe has struggled with consistency.

 

Talking yardage. Gabe's YPC is one of the highest in the NFL.

27 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Bills fans just have this mentality to always look for a reason and defend at all costs. 

 

He’s not a rookie, 6/11 games below 40-yards. One 100+ yard game. 
 

It’s okay to say he’s been a disappointment. 
 

The big play is still there, the nose for the end zone is still there, you’re just not getting many dynamic plays with him running full speed, breaking tackles, or routine plays. 
 

He looks like he has remained a specialist. 
 

 

 

 

 

He also has quite a few very big 3rd down conversion catches on key drives this year too. Let's not leave those out.

 

The one leading to the TD right before the half in the Chiefs game on 3rd and 13? near their own endzone was massive.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[Beck Water]

44 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's because people have very unrelistic expectations based not in reality. This was never going to happen.

 

Question: is there such a thing as an unrealistic expectation based in reality?  Or a realistic expectation based not in reality?

 

31 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

He is?

 

Yes

Edited December 3, 2022 by Beck Water

[Joe Ferguson]

If we get OBJ, butterfingers Davis should be cut or put in the PS.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I think Davis is a monster WR3.  His size and deep threat ability.  Just a beast in that role. 
 

He doesn’t seem to have the reliability/route tree to be a WR2, that I’ve seen.   WR2 needs to be able to move the chains in a variety of ways.  He’s had a few first downs in the past few weeks, but there needs to be a lot more of that for him to claim the role. 

 

None of this matters now...McBeane determined he was capable of going from WR3 to WR2 and it's clear he's not that guy despite having Josh Allen throwing him the ball.  And, they eschewed the outside WR position in UFA.  

 

 

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I love how people are looking at Gabe like the Chiefs game wasn't the outlier of his ability to play. 

 

He's come up clutch plenty of times since he has been on the team and now that he has a bigger role in the offense everyone expects him to be as good as Diggs. 

 

He's not going to get there and that was never going to be his trajectory. 

 

I do still wondered if his ankle is bothering him at times since he has had 3 ankle injuries, I believe, in 2 years. 

 

See above, now add in the injury history.  So much of this board focuses on whether the player performs or doesn't, while almost completely ignoring the personnel and strategic decisions that go into the player being into the position he is.  

 

The OL and WR positions point to a larger issue that OBD does not do offense from a personnel standpoint all that well.  

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Talking yardage. Gabe's YPC is one of the highest in the NFL.

Because his catch number is really bad.

 

Gabe is not consistent. He has a lot of drops, and doesn't catch enough balls to keep drives alive on a team with one of the best QB's in the NFL throwing the ball more than most teams in the NFL.

 

6 games out of 11 with less than 40 yards. 4 of his last 6.

 

Now, the corollary is that he has had some REALLY bright spots as well. But again, I don't think it's crazy to expect more catches than Isaiah McKenzie.  If you think that's crazy, well, you're wrong lmao.

Edited December 3, 2022 by FireChans

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Here’s a question has Gabe Davis ever made a contested catch? I believe I remember a one handed catch. That’s it. I’m sure there are others, but I’ll let someone else tell me.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Talking yardage. Gabe's YPC is one of the highest in the NFL.

 

He also has quite a few very big 3rd down conversion catches on key drives this year too. Let's not leave those out.

 

The one leading to the TD right before the half in the Chiefs game on 3rd and 13? near their own endzone was massive.

Has Gabe Davis been good enough for you to not want the Bills to draft a WR with a premium pick? 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Has Gabe Davis been good enough for you to not want the Bills to draft a WR with a premium pick? 

 

I think the Bills absolutely should draft one regardless of my thoughts on Davis. Rookies are far cheaper than players on a second contract and if you can get similar production, it makes sense to pay a rookie versus a 2nd WR 8-12 million a year.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here’s a question has Gabe Davis ever made a contested catch? I believe I remember a one handed catch. That’s it. I’m sure there are others, but I’ll let someone else tell me.

 

The Steelers catch is the one you’ll get put back to you.

 

My question would be do you remember many catches where he does anything with the ball after the catch? 
 

He is a go-route specialist, but how often does he take a pass, turn it upfield and run over some defenders? 
 

Does he create separation over the middle, stiff arm a corner, put any type of move on anyone? 

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here’s a question has Gabe Davis ever made a contested catch? I believe I remember a one handed catch. That’s it. I’m sure there are others, but I’ll let someone else tell me.

 

The one in the endzone for a TD this year?

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

People are disappointed in him because of these stats:

 

-52.2 catch % on targets

-10.4 drop %

-85.7 passer rating when targeted

 

Considering the caliber of QB throwing to him there's a point where you have to accept that Davis is responsible for his own struggles.

 

Allen will always make WRs produce above their talent level. Looking at raw production isn't good enough. And keep in mind 26% of his total yards and 33% of his total TDs came in one game. A true #2 WR doesn't have one monster game, a few middling games, and a few disappearing acts; not with a QB at Allen's level and a coverage-stealing #1 WR at Diggs' level.

 

Nothing wrong with Davis' skill set but he is not playing his ideal role right now.

 

If it took Mike Williams 4 full seasons before his breakout I think it’s possible considering Gabe is still only 23 (he’ll be 24 in April) that we’re a year early on his breakout. 
 

Mike Williams and Corey Davis on the Jets are 2 comps I have with Gabe.  

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Blitz

[The Wiz]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

None of this matters now...McBeane determined he was capable of going from WR3 to WR2 and it's clear he's not that guy despite having Josh Allen throwing him the ball.  And, they eschewed the outside WR position in UFA.  

 

 

 

See above, now add in the injury history.  So much of this board focuses on whether the player performs or doesn't, while almost completely ignoring the personnel and strategic decisions that go into the player being into the position he is.  

 

The OL and WR positions point to a larger issue that OBD does not do offense from a personnel standpoint all that well.  

You realize that he has played in 11 games this year and has already passed his career high in yards, right?

 

He also already has the same amount of receptions his last two years in 5 less games. 

 

Take away the 99 yrd td and he's still on pace for 700+ yards receiving.

Edited December 3, 2022 by The Wiz

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

So Gabe was injured Sat. in practice before our Mon. night Week 2 game, correct?  He missed that game, Week 2.

He was then questionable for Week 3 and 4 with limited or no participation, but played, and was plainly gimping through it and hampered.

He had FP, no game status, and a great game vs. Pittsburgh

Has not appeared on the injury report since Pittsburgh

 

Has had strong games against KC, Minn, and Cle, the lowest of which (Cle) would project out to 1000 yd, 100 catch season.

 

So....is his ankle hobbling him selectively in a way which does not limit practice or place him on injury report, or, what's your theory?

 

It's possible that his ankle still isn't right and he's not performing at his athletic peak, but to that one has to say: we were told that last year after he was injured in 1 and "questionable" for Game 2, that even though he wasn't on injury report and had no game status the rest of the season, he was actually hampered through ~week 8.

So if this is a repeating pattern of injuring an ankle early in the season and not being able to contribute up to his potential - maybe he's not the guy we need to pay as a #2.

 

I will say this: I haven't watched the details of how he's running every route.  Maybe there are nuances he could improve.  But from what I've seen, we have an "Allen throwing to Gabe Davis when he's pretty heavily covered and it's a high degree of difficulty catch" problem, not a "Gabe Davis Can't Run" problem

 

I think Gabe has to get better at winning the contested and hard catches. His win percentage is near the bottom for WRs.