Criticism of McD and coaching has reached insanity level…

[Trock]

One game at a time. 

[folz]

I am 100% a McDermott supporter. We wouldn't be where we are without him (I think a lot of fans forget this). For God's sake get over the 13 seconds already. Sh&t happens. Everything about this team is due to McDermott. Without him, no Brandon Beane, no Josh Allen, no Stefon Diggs, no family/team-oriented strong culture, etc., etc., etc. He has brought more fun to us as fans than we've seen in over 20 years. The 2017 drought-breaking miracle (which will go down as an All-Time Bills great moment), the perfect game against the Pats, and even in some of the losses (the KC playoff game last year was an instant classic and will be considered one of the greatest playoff games for years to come; the Minnesota game this year is considered the game of the year thus far). Football is a rollercoaster ride, there are ups and downs. Without the downs, the ups don't feel nearly as special. Just enjoy the ride, for Pete's sake. Anyone calling for McD's job is somehow forgetting how much fun these last 5-6 years have been and who is mainly responsible for all of it.

 

Having said all of that, if there is any criticism I would have for the coaching staff it is that we haven't been nearly as good at halftime adjustments as we were last year and I think a good bit of that is on Dorsey's shoulders. I am hoping that being a first-year playcaller, he will improve in that category eventually. But that is the area of coaching where I see the biggest difference from last year and one of the biggest areas that needs improvement. Daboll seemed really good at halftime adjustments last year, but if you recall, the year before, we really struggled in the third quarter, coming out of the half. So, it seems that is something that a coach can get better at, just hope its sooner rather than later for Dorsey/the staff.

 

 

[Nelius]

It's just this board though. There's no criticism in the real world. And I think criticism is warranted, it's about as close to a Super Bowl or bust season as a lot of fans have ever known. If the Bills fall short his seat needs to get warm. However, there is a certain vocal contingent that have just about quintupled down on their McD hate and seemingly want to be right more than they want the team to be successful. Some have even vocally stated that he doesn't have it in him to take the team to the finish line, despite being in the middle of an 8-3 likely playoff bound season. Alright just fold it up then boys I guess, nothing left to see here.

 

Some of the reactions in his post game speech thread are a great example. Does McDermott engage in forced coach speak? Of course. He's even a little awkward. But the team clearly loves him and they're 8-3 right now. If your only reaction to that is hate then I really don't get it. I'd take the season off if I really felt like the guy was that much of a lost cause, I certainly wouldn't post about it 50 times after a win as if attempting to convince myself that he's no good.

[Freddie's Dead]

19 hours ago, eball said:

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

As an outspoken critic of McD, I'll cherry pick the issues that I've seen.  I'll start with the time management at the end of both halves of the DET game.  At the end of the first half, 1st & 10 at BUF 25, (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards.  CALL TIMEOUT!!!  Instead, they ran 32 seconds off the clock before an incomplete pass to Diggs stopped the clock at 1:20.  The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.  In the 2nd half, the Bills panicked by calling the last TO with 7 seconds instead of 3 or 4 so that the FG attempt would be the last play of the game.

 

Let's look at the Minnesota game.  Dorsey took an eminently winnable game and threw it away.  Here's the series from the play-by-play:

 

(4:34 - 4th) G.Joseph kicks 59 yards from MIN 35 to BUF 6. D.Johnson to BUF 28 for 22 yards (T.Jackson; T.Dye).

1st & 10 at BUF 28

(4:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to D.Singletary to BUF 28 for no gain (D.Hunter).

2nd & 10 at BUF 28

(3:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-S.Diggs, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 28 - No Play.

2nd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short left to S.Diggs.

3rd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to S.Diggs (H.Smith).

4th & 15 at BUF 23

(3:26 - 4th) S.Martin punts 53 yards to MIN 24, Center-R.Ferguson, fair catch by J.Reagor.

   

When the above bolded plays were run, MIN had one timeout left.  You run the ball twice, and take up to 1:20 off the clock, or about 45 seconds if MIN uses their last TO.  Either scenario wins you the ballgame.

 

Let's go back to the earlier in the 4th QTR (this is a theme I'll show from games earlier in the season):  

 

1st & 10 at MIN 15

(11:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to I.McKenzie to MIN 7 for 8 yards (C.Bynum).

2nd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:49 - 4th) J.Allen pass incomplete short left. Thrown into ground at line.

3rd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie.

4th & 2 at MIN 7

(10:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for D.Knox INTERCEPTED by P.Peterson at MIN -5. P.Peterson to MIN 34 for 39 yards (J.Allen).

 

This is a pattern from previous games.  2nd and 2 at the MIN 7, and you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  Run the ball, keep the clock running, and don't be ATL handing the Cheats a Super Bowl by not running the ball in the 2nd half.  But we saw this pattern in previous weeks.

 

Bills v. Chefs, Week 6

 

1st & Goal at KC 10

(7:27 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Singletary right end to KC 3 for 7 yards (J.Williams).

2nd & 3 at KC 3

(6:45 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to G.Davis (D.Harris).

3rd & 3 at KC 3

(6:41 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Singletary (C.Jones) [J.Thornhill].

4th & 3 at KC 3

(6:37 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie. BUF-S.Brown was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

 

This is where the pattern started.  2nd and Goal at the 3 yard line.  Motor just ran for 7 to get you there.  Yet you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!! (McKittrick haterz will be jumping all over this, they just can't help themselves).  Luckily, we won the Chiefs game so this series did not cost us the game.  Dorsey did the same thing against the Pack:

 

1st & Goal at GB 7

(10:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Cook left guard to GB 3 for 4 yards (A.Amos).

2nd & 3 at GB 3

(10:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Hart reported in as eligible. J.Allen pass incomplete short right to S.Diggs.

3rd & Goal at GB 3

(10:02 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for G.Davis INTERCEPTED by J.Alexander at GB 3. J.Alexander to GB 5 for 2 yards (G.Davis).

 

Once again, you had a nice running play to get you to 2nd and Goal at the 3, yet you call THRE....er.....TWO STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  The problem I have with Dorsey is that he is not learning from his mistakes, because we saw this in Detwah: 

 

Bills are down 3 points after the DET TD, but Motor is averaging 5+ yards/carry.  Motor gets 1 and 8 yards on the 1st and 4th plays of the 8-play series that ends in a punt.  Every other play is a pass.  For those of you at home, that's 6 passes to 2 runs, in a game where Motor is kicking the crap out the Lions and JA is struggling.  No need to go so pass happy when you're only down 3.

 

McD needs to rein Dorsey in.  When the running game is working, lean on it.  Give your injured QB some help, instead of saddling him up and needing him to play hero ball to pull the team's ass out the fire.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[Big Blitz]

Kind of hard to not panic when you see how God awful the defense is when it’s 2 looming marquee free agents miss games.  Defense completely went to hot garbage when Poyer and Edmonds got hurt.  In addition to our 32 year old Safety needing surgery on his neck.  
 

And our 33 year old HOF DE that is in year 1 of a 6 year deal just tore his knee.  
 

Where will the cap room be to make upgrades next year?  Meh……we’re going to have time to debate that in February.  
 

So I can’t imagine why fans think this really is a make or break year and we might be watching what was a 3 year window that started in 2020 slam shut.  I don’t blame them and they don’t bother me.  I’m currently somewhere in between because my beef is with their failures to really help this offense and that the last 3 drafts have yielded us what exactly?   Gabe Davis, Groot, and?  No all pros.  
 

 

When 13 seconds happened the only thing I thought of in that moment was do you know how freaking hard it is to get this far and to be as healthy as we were?  

 

I’m just stunned that any fan is in a type of panic mode or blame the coaches mode.  That’s sarcasm.  
 

That said this season is far from over and the only reason it looks “bad” is these injuries are catastrophic.  We just haven’t wanted to admit it.  Any other team and we’d write them off.  But we got time to get hot and healthy.  And I’ll always believe in 17.   

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.  In the 2nd half, the Bills panicked by calling the last TO with 7 seconds instead of 3 or 4 so that the FG attempt would be the last play of the game.

I don’t really feel like going through everything else right now, but they didn’t panic. 
 

It was 1st and 10. They called a timeout with 7 seconds left to give them another chance at a FG if there was a botched snap or anything of that nature. Actually a smart football move that you didn’t recognize. 
 

If someone like say, Sean McVay did this, people would be licking his wee-wee. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by JGMcD2

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I'll start with the time management at the end of both halves of the DET game.  At the end of the first half, 1st & 10 at BUF 25, (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards.  CALL TIMEOUT!!!  Instead, they ran 32 seconds off the clock before an incomplete pass to Diggs stopped the clock at 1:20.  The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.

I mean I guess I’ll add to this… time wasn’t the issue. They got down to the Detroit 20 with 20 seconds left and 2 timeouts and then went incomplete, incomplete and sack. 
 

They had plenty of time and the 2 timeouts allowed them to do whatever they wanted. Burning a timeout at 1:52 isn’t making a difference in that sequence… they didn’t run out of time lol

[GunnerBill]

For the criticism from @Freddie's Dead (above) over the end of half play calling against Detroit I think it is slightly out of date thinking. 

 

In this day in age where as long as there is 20 seconds left everyone comes out and runs plays rather than kneeling and going in for HT those end of half situations now have clear joint objectives - score and leave no time for a response. 

 

That is why you should now keep your time outs on offense at the end of half until you are under 40 seconds if at all possible. They only got a FG against Detroit and so, sure, you can second guess the decisions based on the outcome. But you have to be capable of separating strategy and outcome. It was the right plan from the Bills and they have run their end of half drives like that all season and are they have the best point differential in the ENTIRE NFL inside 2 minutes at the end of the half. That is because they understand clock management in the realities of the NFL in 2022 in those situations. 

 

In fact the team in this game who botched the final 2 minutes of the half was the Lions. After their touchdown was reversed and the clock started winding there was 2.23 to go. They did not need to run a play before the 2 minute warning. Instead they did, and even worse than that.... it was an incomplete pass that stopped the clock. They than ran for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down. 2 minute warning. They ran again for 5 yards on 3rd down. 4th and Goal at the 1. Bills Timeout. Lions score on 4th down but they have left the Bills with 1.52 and two timeouts. And they give 3 of their 7 points straight back. Appalling clock management. 

[DC Greg]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I don’t really feel like going through everything else right now, but they didn’t panic. 
 

It was 1st and 10. They called a timeout with 7 seconds left to give them another chance at a FG if there was a botched snap or anything of that nature. Actually a smart football move that you didn’t recognize. 
 

If someone like say, Sean McVay did this, people would be licking his wee-wee. 

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

 

I haven't seen an actual explanation of what happened. Originally it was called with :05 on the clock which is borderline - the standard is you call it with :04. Then they put two extra seconds on. Someone said that it was called immediately Josh went down on the field - so McDermott called with :05 to the sideline official but actually it had already been stopped by an on game official at the request of a player. That sounds plausible but I would be interested in knowing exactly how it played out.

[Dr. Who]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

@eball aren’t you the guy that shouted down everyone who voiced their concerns about the WRs and offensive line all offseason?(and in typical jump the gun/double down eball fashion after the first game of the season?)…. You were wrong….again. 😅
 

That being said, McDermott is still a good football coach and anyone who says otherwise is being foolish considering where he’s brought this regime, but I find it extremely hard to believe the “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” losses are just bad luck or coincidences….. and there has been too many of those jaw dropping “how did they lose that game?” losses under McDermott…..  a lot of it is just bad situational football and that 100% starts with coaching. 
 

Hopefully that Lions win woke them up a bit and they take care of business these next threes weeks. 👍🏻

Nice avatar. If they aren't focused now, they're not going to be. I think they are, but the injury situation will be an issue regardless. I hope this regime is smart enough to make oline and wr a priority going forward. It's just incredibly foolish and short-sighted to keep putting so much burden on Josh Allen. He's getting beat up and I blame the relative lack of high end resources on offense as a major contributing factor. I suspect they plan on spending a first rounder on safety, however.

[Mr. WEO]

is this different than the "coaching won us the game" thread?

 

 

[JGMcD2]

49 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

The holder gets up and throws an incomplete pass? Then the clock stops…  it takes less than 7 seconds. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

To reiterate...

 

 

You seem afraid to answer this.  I think it's because you'll prove my point.  So go ahead, answer it if you've got the guts to.  Personally, I see you ignoring it or ducking it again.

Guts to? My someone is full of themselves today.
 

When was Nate peterman 8-3?
 

Winning earns benefit of doubt. 
 

results matter.

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Guts to? My someone is full of themselves today.
 

When was Nate peterman 8-3?
 

Winning earns benefit of doubt. 
 

results matter.

 

Hm, ducked the question as I predicted.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Hm, ducked the question as I predicted.

Addressed it literally head on. But carry on.  😂 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

For the criticism from @Freddie's Dead (above) over the end of half play calling against Detroit I think it is slightly out of date thinking. 

 

In this day in age where as long as there is 20 seconds left everyone comes out and runs plays rather than kneeling and going in for HT those end of half situations now have clear joint objectives - score and leave no time for a response. 

 

That is why you should now keep your time outs on offense at the end of half until you are under 40 seconds if at all possible. They only got a FG against Detroit and so, sure, you can second guess the decisions based on the outcome. But you have to be capable of separating strategy and outcome. It was the right plan from the Bills and they have run their end of half drives like that all season and are they have the best point differential in the ENTIRE NFL inside 2 minutes at the end of the half. That is because they understand clock management in the realities of the NFL in 2022 in those situations. 

 

In fact the team in this game who botched the final 2 minutes of the half was the Lions. After their touchdown was reversed and the clock started winding there was 2.23 to go. They did not need to run a play before the 2 minute warning. Instead they did, and even worse than that.... it was an incomplete pass that stopped the clock. They than ran for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down. 2 minute warning. They ran again for 5 yards on 3rd down. 4th and Goal at the 1. Bills Timeout. Lions score on 4th down but they have left the Bills with 1.52 and two timeouts. And they give 3 of their 7 points straight back. Appalling clock management. 

 

 

I disagree that 40 seconds is a universal number.    Perhaps for other pass heavy teams.   But not for a Bills offense that relies heavily on Allen in the run game.  

 

And the opponent matters here as well.   The Lions are a nickel and dime offense.   I'll take my chances with them with 20 seconds left in exchange for having the rush option still in play inside the 30 when Josh Allen has the ball.    I thought they played it smarter in the Browns game.

[The Red King]

13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Addressed it literally head on. But carry on.  😂 

 

Hardly.  Let's look at your argument.

 

Quote

Pretty much… sort of like how the people in the waiting room don’t get to weigh in on the surgical strategy.., you proved the point but I don’t think you see you did 

 

You assert that since patients are not doctors, they have no right to weigh in on surgical strategy.  The implications are, in a similar manner, fans cannot weigh in on coaching decisions.  Am I mistaken?

 

To counter that I asked...

 

Quote

By your logic, since nobody here is a quarterback, not one fan here had the right to level a single complaint against Nathan Peterman after that Chargers game.

 

At which point your argument collapses completely.  So, you start throwing in other conditions such as win record.  You backpedaled hard from your original assertion that since patients should not weigh in on surgery, fans should not weigh in on coaching decisions.  In other words, I completely shredded your original point.

 

Check and Mate.

Edited November 27, 2022 by The Red King

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Hardly.  Let's look at your argument.

 

 

You assert that since patients are not doctors, they have no right to weigh in on surgical strategy.  The implications are, in a similar manner, fans cannot weigh in on coaching decisions.  Am I mistaken?

 

To counter that I asked...

 

 

At which point your argument collapses completely.  So, you start throwing in other conditions such as win record.  You backpedaled hard from your original assertion that since patients should not weigh in on surgery, fans should not weigh in on coaching decisions.  In other words, I completely shredded your original point.

 

Check and Mate.

there is no check mate in checkers king me guy..  and I can see the metaphors are a little to abstract. 

 

broken down simply the point being made is when you stink sure fans are right to grumble.

 

and even when you’re winning even fans that know what they are talking about can be critical but it’s obvious having any level of understanding is not prerequisite for many posters here to criticize a highly successful high caliber coaching staff. 
 

that’s the point of my post and the thread as a whole. 
 

there you go. Clean up the check board please. 
 

 

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

there is no check mate in checkers king me guy..  and I can see the metaphors are a little to abstract. 

 

broken down simply the point being made is when you stink sure fans are right to grumble.

 

and even when you’re winning even fans that know what they are talking about can be critical but it’s obvious having any level of understanding is not prerequisite for many posters here to criticize a highly successful high caliber coaching staff. 
 

that’s the point of my post and the thread as a whole. 
 

there you go. Clean up the check board please. 
 

 

 

None of which has anything to do with what I said.  To be clear, I don't disagree with what you just posted.  The only thing directed at you was in regards to a failed correlation you attempted to make between patient/doctor and fan/coach.  A correlation I picked apart by bringing up Peterman.  Surely you can admit that much at this point.  I have not objected to, or even responded to, anything else you've posted.

 

As far as the broader topic as to whether the flak against this coaching staff is warranted, unlike the aforementioned correlation, this is completely subjective.  I have my opinions on the matter, as do you, and we're both allowed to have them.

 

I hope that clears things up.  My only issue here was strictly with that specific assertion, nothing more.