Big Turk Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Looks like this could be heading to a court soon. Claims Owners illegally colluded to prevent players from getting fully guaranteed contracts... https://sports.yahoo.com/nflpa-claims-nfl-owners-colluded-to-prevent-teams-from-offering-fully-guaranteed-contracts-151929807.html 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Like the anonymous exec essentially said, just because the Browns were dumb enough to guarantee Watson all of that money, doesn’t mean that everyone else needs to do the same. 7 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: Like the anonymous exec essentially said, just because the Browns were dumb enough to guarantee Watson all of that money, doesn’t mean that everyone else needs to do the same. Yes of course, but collusion implies all of the owners got on a call or in a meeting room and agreed not to do it again. If they have proof of it, that's illegal. Edited November 22, 2022 by Big Turk 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Yes of course, but collusion implies all of the owners got on a call or in a meeting room and agreed not to do it again. If they have proof of it, that's illegal. Understood, it will be interesting to see what their “proof” is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Browns are idiots. Even most of the players know that Watson contract was stupid. Just because someone does something out of pure desperation doesn’t mean it should become the norm 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 NFL deals should absolutely be fully guaranteed. I hope they get it. To offset they should also reduce or eliminate the concept of dead cap. 1 6 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Just a matter of time......... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Of course they did. But, where is illegal to decide how you can run your private business. This is not a government institution. It’s the NFL. If they make a rule to have a salary cap, is it illegal? If they make a rule that you cannot trade players after the deadline, is it illegal? If they make a rule that no fully guaranteed contracts are allows, it is likewise not illegal. Neither was player rights ownership, until the government decided to meddle and make it so. I suppose they could do the same thing here. But, if they do they could also say that all tailgates are illegal, or all seats must be priced at $300. Or that no drinking is allowed at NFL games. Do you want them to continue down this path, or just leave things alone? 1 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 SURPRISED?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: Of course they did. But, where is illegal to decide how you can run your private business. This is not a government institution. It’s the NFL. If they make a rule to have a salary cap, is it illegal? If they make a rule that you cannot trade players after the deadline, is it illegal? If they make a rule that no fully guaranteed contracts are allows, it is likewise not illegal. Neither was player rights ownership, until the government decided to meddle and make it so. I suppose they could do the same thing here. But, if they do they could also say that all tailgates are illegal, or all seats must be priced at $300. Or that no drinking is allowed at NFL games. Do you want them to continue down this path, or just leave things alone? The NFL has a number of antitrust exemptions. It is important to understand that under regular US law, teams would have to operate independently of one another. No draft, no salary cap, no league-wide broadcasting deals, no franchise tag or free agency rules, etc. All would be in violation of antitrust laws. Teams would operate like any other competing companies. I’m not saying that there’s a case in this instance or that there’s not. I have no idea if the NFLPA can prove that owners have colluded to not fully guarantee long term contracts. But if they can, then the NFL would be in real trouble. It would be as illegal as all of the large IT company CEOs getting together to set industry-wide wage scales for programmers. If I had to take a guess, I’d say this is probably a lot like airline ticket pricing. Airlines collude constantly, but good luck proving it. Edited November 22, 2022 by BarleyNY 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Without some of the antitrust exemptions doubtful a small market like Buffalo would ever have a team. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Yeah, they're going to have to have real proof, not "well, no one QB got a guaranteed contract." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 56 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: NFL deals should absolutely be fully guaranteed. I hope they get it. To offset they should also reduce or eliminate the concept of dead cap. Guarantee them for injury - but not for laziness. You shouldn't have to pay a player like Albert Haynesworth that eats himself out of the league after getting paid. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: The NFL has a number of antitrust exemptions. It is important to understand that under regular US law, teams would have to operate independently of one another. No draft, no salary cap, no league-wide broadcasting deals, no franchise tag or free agency rules, etc. All would be in violation of antitrust laws. Teams would operate like any other competing companies. I’m not saying that there’s a case in this instance or that there’s not. I have no idea if the NFLPA can prove that owners have colluded to not fully guarantee long term contracts. But if they can, then the NFL would be in real trouble. It would be as illegal as all of the large IT company CEOs getting together to set industry-wide wage scales for programmers. If I had to take a guess, I’d say this is probably a lot like airline ticket pricing. Airlines collude constantly, but good luck proving it. I think you’re taking it a little too deep. Not having long-term guaranteed contracts is not at all fixed wage scales. These guys can earn as much or even more with the current way the contracts are incentivized for production. That would all go away with guaranteed contracts. Also, it goes both ways which would not be good. On a guaranteed contract, the ability to renegotiate would not be as available. Plus, the no-cut, no-trade clauses and similar verbiage would probably not apply. Plus, what does that do to the salary cap? Signing bonuses and other incentives? Okay, I understand that a guaranteed contract is a hedge against serious injury. Other than that, it is not what it is made out to be for the players. This would open the door to re-designing The Whole Enchalada. As I see it, the only thing that would do is guarantee a player strike. (And rightfully so.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 53 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: Of course they did. But, where is illegal to decide how you can run your private business. This is not a government institution. It’s the NFL. If they make a rule to have a salary cap, is it illegal? If they make a rule that you cannot trade players after the deadline, is it illegal? If they make a rule that no fully guaranteed contracts are allows, it is likewise not illegal. Neither was player rights ownership, until the government decided to meddle and make it so. I suppose they could do the same thing here. But, if they do they could also say that all tailgates are illegal, or all seats must be priced at $300. Or that no drinking is allowed at NFL games. Do you want them to continue down this path, or just leave things alone? That doesn't matter for it to be collusioin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, clayboy54 said: I think you’re taking it a little too deep. Not having long-term guaranteed contracts is not at all fixed wage scales. These guys can earn as much or even more with the current way the contracts are incentivized for production. That would all go away with guaranteed contracts. Also, it goes both ways which would not be good. On a guaranteed contract, the ability to renegotiate would not be as available. Plus, the no-cut, no-trade clauses and similar verbiage would probably not apply. Plus, what does that do to the salary cap? Signing bonuses and other incentives? Okay, I understand that a guaranteed contract is a hedge against serious injury. Other than that, it is not what it is made out to be for the players. This would open the door to re-designing The Whole Enchalada. As I see it, the only thing that would do is guarantee a player strike. (And rightfully so.) I’m not really arguing one side or the other. I can see some real downside if the NFL went to all fully guaranteed contracts and why teams don’t want to do that. I can also see why the players think more contracts should be fully guaranteed and why they think there is collusion by owners. I was more just trying to point out what the landscape looks like and discuss that, if proven, it would be a problem for the NFL. Edited November 22, 2022 by BarleyNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 How is that different from the nfl getting together and putting in the salary cap? Im not saying this isn’t collusion or wrong to do I just seriously don’t know how it’s different. I’ve always thought player contracts should be guaranteed. They made a contract with the player. If they cut the player I think they should still be paid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Just now, Scott7975 said: How is that different from the nfl getting together and putting in the salary cap? Im not saying this isn’t collusion or wrong to do I just seriously don’t know how it’s different. I’ve always thought player contracts should be guaranteed. They made a contract with the player. If they cut the player I think they should still be paid. I know… if you really stink and get cut by multiple teams, you might become a billionaire. What a great concept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: NFL deals should absolutely be fully guaranteed. I hope they get it. To offset they should also reduce or eliminate the concept of dead cap. That's just stupid. Nothing should be guaranteed. You play well, you get paid. You don't play well, hit the bricks and go work on a loading dock or drive for UPS. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 I don't agree with guaranteed contracts. The player will just pretend like they are hurt and collect game checks. It's a physical game, it's not like other leagues. I think it should be a pay for play system. You don't play or play poorly then you make less. All contracts incentive based 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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