Erik Turner: Ken Dorsey bears the brunt of the blame for red zone woes

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yes. You cannot be a successful defensive coordinator if you don't understand what offenses are doing and what the rules are within the schemes they are attacking you with.

 

Why people can't understand this is a puzzlement.

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Yes. You cannot be a successful defensive coordinator if you don't understand what offenses are doing and what the rules are within the schemes they are attacking you with.

Even so, there will be a drop off in expertise as far as knowledge on offense is concerned. Especially if you’re comparing McD to Reid or McD to McVay. He will never be in that class.

 

The Bills could hire just about anyone to come coach here. Why not find the next McVay? I mean, literally the brightest minds would be salivating to come here. Why go with the DC whose teams fall apart in big moments? Allen is our best player, bar none, get a QB whisperer to come here to help him realize his true potential. At that point we have permanent stability on offense.

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

Even so, there will be a drop off in expertise as far as knowledge on offense is concerned. Especially if you’re comparing McD to Reid or McD to McVay. He will never be in that class.

 

The Bills could hire just about anyone to come coach here. Why not find the next McVay? I mean, literally the brightest minds would be salivating to come here. Why go with the DC whose teams fall apart in big moments? Allen is our best player, bar none, get a QB whisperer to come here to help him realize his true potential. At that point we have permanent stability on offense.

Why do you say this?

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Why do you say this?

It’s the truth. Offenses are what win games in this league. McD is a good coach, but his expertise is on defense. I want a HC whose expertise is on offense to get the most out of Allen. 

[HoofHearted]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

It’s the truth. Offenses are what win games in this league. McD is a good coach, but his expertise is on defense. I want a HC whose expertise is on offense to get the most out of Allen. 

I'm asking why you think there's drop off in expertise of offensive knowledge.

[JohnNord]

15 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He isn't involved in the offensive gameplan so this makes zero sense.

It makes perfect sense if you want to blame McDermott for everything 

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

It’s the truth. Offenses are what win games in this league. McD is a good coach, but his expertise is on defense. I want a HC whose expertise is on offense to get the most out of Allen. 

 

But it's the OC who is calling the plays.  It's how well these plays are called in sequence and how well they are disguised.

 

Look at Reid.  After Hill left the O is taking what the D gives them.  Mahomes is meticulously moving the ball down the field.

It's not rocket science, it's cat and mouse.  That's as much of a skill as designing the plays (which is also important).

 

Dorsey is new to all of this.  He and McDermott know what has to be done, they just have to execute it better.

Josh being off is hurting BUT a good OC has to know how to get a QB back on track.

 

Like I posted earlier, IMO Dorsey started out on fire and now DCs got tape on him.  The ball is literally back in his court.

We will have to see how he handles it.

[CoudyBills]

At about the 38 second mark of that video, 1st Vikings pick with the long return.  Who is the idiot receiver who runs himself out of bounds allowing the DB to fall off of him and pick that ball?

[mjt328]

I see a lot of smart@$$ comments, about how the Bills still rank high statistically in offense.

 

The problem is, we ran up the stats big in Week 1-2 and then against Pittsburgh with two really big passing plays.  Things have been trending down very quickly since that point, especially in the Red Zone.  Starting in Week 3 (against the Dolphins), the offense has been very spotty and only played good for 1-2 quarters per game.  They either start strong and fade after halftime, or start really flat and need to catch-up.

 

With all the injuries on defense, the Bills can't afford to take multiple weeks to "figure things out" on the offensive side too.  If we don't fix things quickly, this season is going to spiral out of control, and this team will be in serious danger of missing the playoffs.

 

[CSBill]

10 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Heard a stat on NFL radio about this. They said that it was only the second time in the last 10 years that a QB trying to sneak the ball out of their own EZ fumbled it away for a defensive TD. The crazy thing was that the other time was also Josh Allen. Does anybody else remember that?

I’m too lazy to scroll through the thread, did this get answered? I don’t remember it. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

There is no Beasley in this offense.  If Crowder doesn’t get hurt, I think the offense looks more in sync.  

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, CoudyBills said:

At about the 38 second mark of that video, 1st Vikings pick with the long return.  Who is the idiot receiver who runs himself out of bounds allowing the DB to fall off of him and pick that ball?

Isaiah McKenzie

[billsbackto81]

12 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

Really? 70,000 people in the stadium knew what was going to be called, and should be called. How about they just did not execute it correctly. It was a 1 in a 100 times failure. Unfortunately, the 1 really bites.

To a regular team, maybe.

 

For the Bills, it's 50/50

[Billsforumsucks]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

We never adequately replaced Beasley thinking McKenzie could just slide into his place. Cole meant alot to Josh and was his safety blanket till that gets rectified with maybe Shakir or someone else these things are still going to happen 

Crowder was the replacement.

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

McD doesn’t coach defenses as good as Bellyacher does, nor should you assume that Belichick knows nothing of offenses.

Bellichick is a terrible coach and has WON ZERO SB'S without Brady, FACT!

9 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

It just pisses you off when you watch these games and then rewind some of these plays when they get down in the redzone,  and when you as a fan see they have other options underneath for 5 to 8 yards in which Josh and the OC ignore,  these coaches and players are not on same page.   Josh and our OC constantly ignore the players that are open with a higher percentage of gaining 5 to 8 yards if it was selected.  We go down there inside the 20, 1st down pass incomplete, 2nd down play a piss poor run call selection with no motion or pulling on the line that goes for 2 or 3 yards sometimes a loss of yardage up to 5 yards.  The 3rd pass is incomplete because they are forcing the throw into receivers that are covered and its either incomplete or its picked off.  Then the the 4th down mistakes speak for themselves.

 

There is such terrible play calling when down in the redzone the percentage of these plays working is got to be less than 40%.

 

Everyone on this forum has seen these bone headed play calls and missed opportunities.   How in the world does the OC & his assistants up in the booth watching this game not see these as we do.   Then try to incorporate that into the game at some point.  There is zero improvising with our OC and his play calling.   It's really like watching a college OC call plays, the same stuff is called over and over that is so generic there is no chance of these plays working against a good team.

 

Dorsey has to start realizing that he is not going to get in trouble running plays from last year's playbook that worked.  Why in would someone not continue to use what worked and then expand upon that.  It's not like you are going get fined or sued for using plays that were from a previous OC that actually worked.

 

Our coaching is really pathetic and it is the single biggest fault with this team, and it's true on both sides of the ball, Frazier does not get a free pass on this issue either for not adapting his D during games when its sorely needed.

If this is true, how are we the #2 scoring offense in the league?

[Scott7975]

20 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Wouldn’t you rather that we did have a HC who was involved with our offense? An Andy Reid or a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan of sorts? 🤔

 

If you have a good OC then it makes no difference.  There is a reason the OC position exists just like the DC position exists.  If the OC is good then it doesnt matter if we have a defensive coach.  Most people hate defensive coaches because they think they aren't aggressive enough because they would rather rely on their D and run the football too much or something along those lines.  This isnt the case with McD.  He is one of the more aggressive coaches in the league.

 

You think those guys all started as head coaches?

Edited November 18, 2022 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

A heady player makes sure to subtly bring the DB out of bounds with him. But again I'm not necessarily blaming McKenzie for that, it's a tough play and maybe he doesn't know the rule. The problem is as Peterson intercepts the ball McKenzie still just stands there casually watching him run down field while our QB with an injured elbow makes the extra effort to bring him down. If I'm the coach he's sitting down for the next couple games after that disgusting lack of effort.

 

Its tough to get a look at it but I swear that Petersons foot went OOB as well.  I mentioned this in another thread the other day.  Someone said that rule only applies to the offensive player.  I do not know if that is true or not but in the rule book it only mentions offensive player not a corner. Unless they consider the corner a receiver upon interception.  I just dont know.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

But it's the OC who is calling the plays.  It's how well these plays are called in sequence and how well they are disguised.

 

Look at Reid.  After Hill left the O is taking what the D gives them.  Mahomes is meticulously moving the ball down the field.

It's not rocket science, it's cat and mouse.  That's as much of a skill as designing the plays (which is also important).

 

Dorsey is new to all of this.  He and McDermott know what has to be done, they just have to execute it better.

Josh being off is hurting BUT a good OC has to know how to get a QB back on track.

 

Like I posted earlier, IMO Dorsey started out on fire and now DCs got tape on him.  The ball is literally back in his court.

We will have to see how he handles it.

This is an excellent objective perspective.

I am so pissed at Dorsey I could spit , But.... it Is his 1st year and a bit above his skill set.
he has till the SB to grow into these new shoes.
For now I will remain hopeful he see the challenges and responds to them mightily.

Allen needs better coaching/calling from Ken.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Even so, there will be a drop off in expertise as far as knowledge on offense is concerned. Especially if you’re comparing McD to Reid or McD to McVay. He will never be in that class.

 

The Bills could hire just about anyone to come coach here. Why not find the next McVay? I mean, literally the brightest minds would be salivating to come here. Why go with the DC whose teams fall apart in big moments? Allen is our best player, bar none, get a QB whisperer to come here to help him realize his true potential. At that point we have permanent stability on offense.

 

Teams around the league every season are looking for the next Reid or McVay.  Most of those teams fail every season.  McD is a top coach in this league.  It doesnt matter if he is offensive or defensive coach.  He is a damn good coach and way underappreciated.

[Victory Formation]

47 minutes ago, Flucod said:

Bellichick is a terrible coach and has WON ZERO SB'S without Brady, FACT!

Didn’t he win two with the Giants? 🤔

[Teddy KGB]

This guys an idiot.   It’s Dorsey’s fault Allen keeps throwing the ball right to cornerbacks ? 🤦🏼‍♂️