Erik Turner: Ken Dorsey bears the brunt of the blame for red zone woes

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I can see it - defense disguised their coverage a bit and had Allen fooled. A junky 2nd down play.  Just a messy 3 play sequence, Allen has to be better.  Dorsey can't burn a play on a weird PA screen either.  There's gotta be a balance between, allen needs the ball he's our best guy - and we need the ball out quick or run it because of how the opposition is playing us.  

 

 

 

Junky because the defensive end sniffed it out and it didn't work, but the concept was good. 2nd and 2 and you show Trap (which is what Singletary had the big run on earlier) with the blocking scheme to pull the inside backer away from the screen. If their end is lined up in anything other than a 9 tech it's likely an easy completion for a first down because of the misdirection. For those talking about lack of creativity this play contradicts that notion.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

And yet Shakir sees the field now <10 snaps per game? 

 

1. You won't get a concise, open-ended question to Dorsey from our media about this because they are always too concerned about how everyone is feeling.

 

2. McDermott will never address anything football related in a straight forward manner. 

 

So that leaves you with a glacial pace of change with the Bills on personnel usage. 

If a player gets run out of bounds like Mackenzie did, the stupidest thing to do is come back on the field and present himself as a legitimate target, especially on 4th down. He did the right thing there.

[Paup 1995MVP]

11 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Those were both blown plays by Allen imo…although there’s probably plenty of evidence of suspect playcalling by Dorsey I’m sure.  Peterson is kind of full of sh*t there lol 

 

allen had gabe in the back of the end zone for a likely td with minimal risk of anything worse than an incompletion and he completely missed the throw.  
The route concept was perfect  against that defense and Peterson was beat by a step

 

 

the sneak I still believe was the right call Allen just botched that one too…doesn’t at all matter that they telegraphed it.  When have you seen a sneak lose a half yard in nfl history even if the defense is loaded up to stop it and that’s before you could even get leverage from someone pushing from behind.   I think Allen was looking ahead and trying to take away some of the potential difficulty of the following play on the off chance they lost some fraction of a yard and he tried to run before securing the snap. 
 

 

On the pick at the end of OT, you can see Morris #85 dragging across the middle at the 5 yard line.  It was an easy throw and would have given us a 1st down at around the 3-4 yard line.  And Singletary was open in the rt flat and would have gotten at least to the 12 yard line.  Instead Josh got tunnel vision and choked.  He is pressing at times, and needs to start playing within himself when he is passing the ball.  He looked calm as can be on the last drive in regulation that tied the game.  And his running has never been better then it was against the Vikings.  He just needs to relax and stop pressing in the red zone.  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

13 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

 

Can we adjust? 

Pretty damning.

 

"Its like the defense knows what is coming"

 

Check out the 13:18 mark of the video.

 

Defenses (Miami and KC) are reading what is happening on the field and completely shutting it down

 

[GunnerBill]

He isn't wrong. Dorsey has been disappointing IMO.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

He isn't wrong. Dorsey has been disappointing IMO.

 

In the RZ but we have the #1 offense in the NFL at over 424 yards and #2 in scoring.  It's not all bad.

 

The answer to the RZ problems?

 

QB Power/QB Pin and Pull from inside the 10 yard line once every series.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Big Turk

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

On the pick at the end of OT, you can see Morris #85 dragging across the middle at the 5 yard line.  It was an easy throw and would have given us a 1st down at around the 3-4 yard line.  And Singletary was open in the rt flat and would have gotten at least to the 12 yard line.  Instead Josh got tunnel vision and choked.  He is pressing at times, and needs to start playing within himself when he is passing the ball.  He looked calm as can be on the last drive in regulation that tied the game.  And his running has never been better then it was against the Vikings.  He just needs to relax and stop pressing in the red zone.  

Yes he's pressing and it's obvious to anyone.  That's what happens when he's expected to be 92% of the offense. Run more. Checkdown more. And eventually your deeper throws to Diggs & Gabe will open up and return. 

[pocoboy]

13 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

The most concerning plays, to me, were two game-changers that displayed an obvious preparation deficiency for the Bills: the backed-up, goal line sneak where Gabe Davis's motion absolutely telegraphed the snap (based on film study) AND the last, OT interception, about which Patrick Peterson admits he knew the route to undercut based on film study. 

 

Just arrogance mostly. Self-scout. It shouldn't take another team's exploitation to realize you have tells. There should be people on the rolls whose job is to identify this stuff so you aren't caught with your pants down. I have felt that Daboll, coming from NE, did this himself.

[T master]

14 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Wouldn’t you rather that we did have a HC who was involved with our offense? An Andy Reid or a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan of sorts? 🤔

 

Belichek is a HC with a extensive defensive back ground and he's won more SB's than most .. Just saying .

[Victory Formation]

6 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Belichek is a HC with a extensive defensive back ground and he's won more SB's than most .. Just saying .

McD doesn’t coach defenses as good as Bellyacher does, nor should you assume that Belichick knows nothing of offenses.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

McD doesn’t coach defenses as good as Bellyacher does, nor should you assume that Belichick knows nothing of offenses.

 

Belichick is the best ever. But McDermott is a top 3 defensive mind in the NFL. 

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

McD doesn’t coach defenses as good as Bellyacher does, nor should you assume that Belichick knows nothing of offenses.

This notion that defensive coaches know nothing about offense baffles me... how can you defend something you know nothing about?

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Imo the concepts themselves aren't the issue - or when they're being called - you can see these same concepts being run by every other team in the league every week. They just need to be cleaned up. The spacing, the understanding of rules for man vs. zone, and then the protections to go along with them. It just feels like there's always a misstep by one crucial player every time we get down there.

 

We've had this issue since Daboll was the OC. Too many times Allen and his intended target are not on the same page. I've wondered if maybe we have the wrong players for the system we run? It requires cerebral WRs. That's why Julian Edelman was a star in the system, not because of his abilities but because he knew the system so well and played off of Brady to perfection. Guys like Davis and Knox don't strike me as cerebral pass catchers, they are physical freaks. Ideally you'd want them winning with their athleticism and not thinking too much. Diggs fits the system well, I think Shakir could too with some seasoning, but I'm not sure about the other guys.

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by HappyDays

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We've had this issue since Daboll was the OC. Too many times Allen and his intended target are not on the same page. I've wondered if maybe we have the wrong players for the system we run? It requires cerebral WRs. That's why Julian Edelman was a star in the system, not because of his abilities but because he knew the system so well and played off of Brady to perfection. Guys like Davis and Knox don't strike me as cerebral pass catchers, they are physical freaks. Ideally you'd want them winning with their athleticism and not thinking too much. Diggs fits the system well, I think Shakir could too with some seasoning, but I'm not sure about the other guys.

 

If Gronk can determine the difference between man or zone on the fly then anyone can 😆

[ColoradoBills]

Dorsey started out great.

After a few games the DCs got film on him.

He needs to counter to protect what was working.

Bills needs to add other schemes to his attack.

It's rinse and repeat for any good OC.

 

That's how I see it.  It seems pretty obvious. 

[Victory Formation]

15 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

This notion that defensive coaches know nothing about offense baffles me... how can you defend something you know nothing about?

Do you really think that McD knows offenses well? I love the Bills as much as you do, but don’t expect me to like everything about them like some sweaty Bills Mafia meatball.

[T master]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

McD doesn’t coach defenses as good as Bellyacher does, nor should you assume that Belichick knows nothing of offenses.

 

I didn't say that he does coach as good as BB or that BB doesn't know anything about offense was just replying to your reply . But how long did it take BB to get to where he is now in comparison to how long McD has been a HC hands on knowledge & in game experience can not be replaces by book study .

 

As a matter of fact he being more of a defensive minded coach which is where he got his start & has most of his historical back ground in since being in the NFL has more wins & more SB's than any offensive minded coach ever such as Andy Ried, Coryell, or most nay other that we could think of ..

 

So just as a reply to your question of ;

 

"Wouldn't you rather have a HC who was involved with our offense ? An Andy Reid or a Sean Mcvay or a Kyle Shanahan of sorts ?"

 

I was just pointing out that just because they are career oriented as a Offensive minded HC that it doesn't necessarily mean that a offense will do better with them at the helm over a D minded coach that's all .

 

But the head coach definitely needs to have the right person in that position & it would help like Bekichek that you know a bit about offense being the "Head Coach" of the team .

 

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2013/1/9/3857920/do-defensive-coaches-win-super-bowls

 

Here's a little something to read it tells more in depth about coaching in general and their back grounds to determine your own opinion of who is the best for the job .

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

If a player gets run out of bounds like Mackenzie did, the stupidest thing to do is come back on the field and present himself as a legitimate target, especially on 4th down. He did the right thing there.

I have no issue with that. We all know that rule. 

 

Watching on TV and this All-22 Analysis line up. 

 

There is nowhere for Allen to go when throwing in Goal to Go situations. 

 

Guys are covered, the spacing stinks, plays take too long to develop, and there are no underneath throws to make. 

 

So this all goes back on Allen to always make the right decision, or run more. 

 

Plus, the coaching staff is now too good for FGs and instead goes for it when already up multiple scores. 

[JohnNord]

15 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

 

Can we adjust? 

I was skeptical of Erik Turner but he does a bang up job with these film reviews and he definitely knows his *****.  Now Bills players are actually taking notice.  Looking forward to watching this 

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Do you really think that McD knows offenses well? I love the Bills as much as you do, but don’t expect me to like everything about them like some sweaty Bills Mafia meatball.

Yes. You cannot be a successful defensive coordinator if you don't understand what offenses are doing and what the rules are within the schemes they are attacking you with.