The 4th & 2 playcalling

[CEN-CAL17]

8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

With that type of response I’m unsure if you even know what misdirection is.

Misdirection, like a reverse… like a waggle pass with someone slipping out the opposite direction. A deep post that goes against the direction of the flow… a TE sneaking out late going the opposite way. 
 

Yes they are designed plays which goes 100% against our concept scheme, but this team needs to get creative. I’ve yet to see anything remotely like what I described. 
 

The Bears long TD to Kmet yesterday? That! Everything I described is misdirection…

 

Definition: 

. 

“the action or process of directing someone to the wrong place or in the wrong direction.”

Hence getting the defense to go one way, and you have someone going the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by CEN-CAL17

[HoofHearted]

12 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Misdirection, like a reverse… like a waggle pass with someone slipping out the opposite direction. A deep post that goes against the direction of the flow… a TE sneaking out late going the opposite way. 
 

Yes they are designed plays which goes 100% against our concept scheme, but this team needs to get creative. I’ve yet to see anything remotely like what I described. 
 

The Bears long TD to Kmet yesterday? That! Everything I described is misdirection…

 

Definition: 

. 

“the action or process of directing someone to the wrong place or in the wrong direction.”

Hence getting the defense to go one way, and you have someone going the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh good you do. Now Google how RPOs work, or Power Read, or go to the 4th and 2 thread and watch the highlight of the tight end screen I described.

[Andy1]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Oh and this was brutal. I can see McKenzie in doghouse next game. This was hard to watch and it surely won't get unnoticed.

Calm down. McKenzie wasn’t on the field for this play. He was just standing on the sideline at the goal line. Look at the video from the end zone perspective.

[CEN-CAL17]

27 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Oh good you do. Now Google how RPOs work, or Power Read, or go to the 4th and 2 thread and watch the highlight of the tight end screen I described.

Guy, I understand the game. I understand how RPOs work and I know exactly what TE screen you’re talking about…. Sure, misdirection. But I’m talking bigger. Sorry. You’re right, you got it all figured out. Is your point to prove me wrong or just stand on RPO as the greatest misdirection we got?

 

either way you win. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

The bigger question was why was that running back Duke Johnson and not Hines or Cook, the 2 RBs the Bills aquired to be in the passing game. In fact Duke was in for all 3 of those short yardage plays at the goal line, even though they were all passing plays.

 

Johnson is a more physical inside runner.......as evidenced to Bills fans in preseason.   Perhaps they wanted to give the impression that they *might* run the ball and Hines and Cook wouldn't seem like options to run the ball there?   But as I've said in this thread.........Duke Johnson has had a tremendous pass catching career.   His yards per reception is higher than guys like McCaffrey and Kamara.    And it's not a tiny sample size.      

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Guy, I understand the game. I understand how RPOs work and I know exactly what TE screen you’re talking about…. Sure, misdirection. But I’m talking bigger. Sorry. You’re right, you got it all figured out. Is your point to prove me wrong or just stand on RPO as the greatest misdirection we got?

 

either way you win. 

My point was to show you we do have misdirection in our offense since you said you’ve never seen it. Glad I could open your eyes for you my guy!

[freddyjj]

4 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Calm down. McKenzie wasn’t on the field for this play. He was just standing on the sideline at the goal line. Look at the video from the end zone perspective.

Not quite.  A player can't stand at the goal line when not on the field as part of 11.  

 

Go to 4th down play in video below.  He literally ran out of bounds on his pattern voluntarily then just stayed and watched the INT and return.  

 

 

[No_Matter_What]

5 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Calm down. McKenzie wasn’t on the field for this play. He was just standing on the sideline at the goal line. Look at the video from the end zone perspective.

Lol what. I guess you'd like to take this one back, just as McKenzie.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

15 hours ago, Success said:

I hate to belabor this one - but it was genuinely concerning.

 

We can set aside the decision to go for it for now, which I disagreed with.  But it wasn't THAT crazy, given the talent on our offense.

 

The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen.  It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game.  Everybody go out, and try to get open!  Am I missing anything there?  Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field?

 

Great teams always seem to have some play in their back pocket - a "gotta have" play, when you have short yardage & a chance to put the game away.  Do we not have that?

 

According to Dorsey we started to “hit the screen there” and called our best plays on 3rd and 4th down. 
 

But because we went pass on 2nd down, the decision was made to pass, pass on 3rd and 4th.

 

To your point, you don’t see creativity with this team. 18% usage of play action according to WGR, no motion, no Shakir, we run once to McKenzie and never use it again.

 

Watch the 2020 Bills highlights and you see all sorts of creative plays. 
 

That stuff is gone. Nothing in the middle of the field ever. It’s all precision sideline throws outside the numbers or Allen making something happen running out of the pocket. 

 

2 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Not quite.  A player can't stand at the goal line when not on the field as part of 11.  

 

Go to 4th down play in video below.  He literally ran out of bounds on his pattern voluntarily then just stayed and watched the INT and return.  

 

 

Look at how complicated Dorsey made that to pick up 2-yards. 

[Andy1]

4 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Not quite.  A player can't stand at the goal line when not on the field as part of 11.  

 

Go to 4th down play in video below.  He literally ran out of bounds on his pattern voluntarily then just stayed and watched the INT and return.  

 

 

Ugh! You are correct! I wish it wasn’t so. I only saw a short video clip before showing him standing there. 
It’s another example of team failure in that game.

[Andy1]

On 4th and 2, when McKenzie saw Josh was scrambling, he also did a piss poor job of getting open. He turns away from Josh and decides to circle around the side of the end zone, eventually getting pushed out of bounds. Ugh.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Andy1

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Thanks for the replays.  Looks like the book on Allen is getting written these past few weeks.  

 

The 2nd and 2 broken play and toss into the ground is why we need to try to run at least a little more.  Why was 26 not in there?   Maybe Allen hangs in there and runs over to his left end.   If the defender stays on Knox, Allen has a run for the sideline, and he picks up the first down.  If the defender leaves Knox then he can get open.  I am surprised that Allen threw it away so quickly and never let anything else develop.  

 

The 3rd and 2 play required Josh to hit Davis in stride and immediately - instead he waited too long.  Knox was getting open in the right corner, would have been a safe play. Allen was locked onto the middle of the field.  

 

The 4th and 2 play was covered the whole way and never a threat.   The D never worried about a run.  Allen was flushed out of the pocket and was contained behind the line of scrimmage.  

 

The one-dimensional offense fails, even with an elite QB.    No runs.   No RPO's.  No play was even designed to get the ball to Diggs, our most reliable weapon. 

 

3rd and 2 davis stopped for some reason and then mckenzie - who is mirroring the route behind him runs right into coverage.  

[Jerome007]

19 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Going up two touchdowns with 10 minutes left in the game would have been the right thing to do.  My mind will never change about it.  It's okay that we disagree. 

One can never fully agree or disagree here as both decisions make sense ha ha. As pointed out multiple times, it's more the playcalling (for 2nd, 3rd, and 4h down) and execution that failed. 

[GoBills808]

20 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

This is what pisses me off. McKenzie is in on the play and just watches Peterson return it. He made absolutely zero attempt to try and tackle him. Inexcusable.

He also bizarrely just ran out of bounds which allowed Peterson to come off him into the throwing lane

 

play at 1:20

 

McKenzie runs himself out of bounds and then just watches Peterson intercept the ball and stands there. He should be inactive next game imo

 

 

[HoofHearted]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He also bizarrely just ran out of bounds which allowed Peterson to come off him into the throwing lane

 

play at 1:20

 

McKenzie runs himself out of bounds and then just watches Peterson intercept the ball and stands there. He should be inactive next game imo

 

 

I dunno - I think it's more so a really smart play by Peterson. Lean McKenzie out of bounds - he's now no longer eligible to touch the ball (also heads up by McKenzie to stay out so Josh doesn't throw to him - remarkably stupid to be in that situation in the first place...) - which now allows Peterson to pull himself off coverage and play Josh's eyes.

 

The inexcusable part is that he just stood there and watched Peterson return it.

 

EDIT: It's also still extremely frustrating that we couldn't take advantage of the blown coverage on third down... It doesn't get any easier than that.

Edited November 15, 2022 by HoofHearted

[2003Contenders]

The 2nd down play is bizarre too. Did someone miss the play call? When I watched the play live, I assumed it was a screen play to the left that the defense had sniffed out and that Josh intentionally tossed the ball into the turf. Upon 2nd review, the RB goes to the RIGHT and blocks. To the left there is nothing but offensive linemen. (I do not recall an announcement that a tackle declared as an eligible receiver). The only skill position player in the vicinity is Knox, who also appears to be blocking and not looking for the ball. Was Knox supposed to chip and then go out for the pass?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Not quite.  A player can't stand at the goal line when not on the field as part of 11.  

 

Go to 4th down play in video below.  He literally ran out of bounds on his pattern voluntarily then just stayed and watched the INT and return.  

 

 

 

Well the second you are out of bounds you need to stay out of bounds so he doesn't throw it to you.  No excuse on the return, he must have not seen it or assumed he was going to kneel.  

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

The 2nd down play is bizarre too. Did someone miss the play call? When I watched the play live, I assumed it was a screen play to the left that the defense had sniffed out and that Josh intentionally tossed the ball into the turf. Upon 2nd review, the RB goes to the RIGHT and blocks. To the left there is nothing but offensive linemen. (I do not recall an announcement that a tackle declared as an eligible receiver). The only skill position player in the vicinity is Knox, who also appears to be blocking and not looking for the ball. Was Knox supposed to chip and then go out for the pass?

Your initial inclination was correct. It was a screen to Knox.

[HappyDays]

Here's Dan Orlovsky breaking down two separate drives where we had 2nd and 2 and failed to do anything with it:

 

Defenses are not even pretending to play the run in these situations. We have to figure it out.

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

3rd and 2 davis stopped for some reason and then Mckenzie - who is mirroring the route behind him runs right into coverage.  

Allen missed a briefly open Davis.  He got the ball out late and it was behind him.  All on Allen.  

 

Mostly we had a lot of poorly designed routes that were well covered.   McKenzie actually brought more coverage onto Davis because of the route he ran.  

 

All this talk about what Davis could have done and should have done is garbage.   Once they blew up the screen the Vikes played it by betting we would be impatient and go for the TD and they covered it.  In the second half, once we reached the red zone they took away the end zone; it was not like they covered us on one play and got lucky - they knew what to do on multiple red zone plays because we do the same things.  They never had to think about the run, or check downs. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Bob in STL