Seriously disappointed in this board at how many have turned on Allen

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I "ignored" the points from Allen turnovers because without the defensive meltdown the 2nd one never exists. If they do their job one time, we kneel on the ball and go home.

 

I find this hilarious and also concerning. The offense literally had that very opportunity because of a tremendous goal line stand from the defense. It is absolutely bat poop crazy to me that you used that as a real example. I mean....wow. What you are asking for literally happened, in real life, in the very game you are saying that it didn't happen in but you wish it had. Dude....

 

I am not ridding anybody of any blame. I am just putting Allen at the top of the totem pole based on his second half performance. I refuse to write off a second half QB performance filled with failed bombs to Diggs ending in 3 and Out , Field goal, Interception, 3 and Out , Fumble/TD , Field Goal. Surely I wish we had more from the defense. But 2 turn overs, a defensive TD, and two 3 and outs aren't the defenses fault. 

 

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance

/ˈkäɡnədiv ˈdisənəns/

Learn to pronounce

noun

PSYCHOLOGY

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

 

 

EDIT: I really cannot get over how absolutely insane and stupid it is that you said that. I am baffled, and impressed. Jesus Christ. Hahaha

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mango
WOW

[Jauronimo]

Just now, FireChans said:

Josh should have went to the podium and said the defense did the bare minimum getting him the ball back with 50 seconds and the lead.

It was too much to ask that our offense generate 0 yards and hold on to the ball.  Or that they lose a yard and hold on to the ball. 

 

Asking our offense to complete a center-QB exchange was completely unreasonable by our defense - BullBuchanan probably

[Airseven]

Many have turned on Allen in November about as quickly as they anointed him MVP in August. It’s the typical fluff fan petulance.

[HamSandwhich]

It’s sad, I have not and will not. Rough patch but he’ll pull through.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Mango said:

 

I find this hilarious and also concerning. The offense literally had that very opportunity because of a tremendous goal line stand from the defense. It is absolutely bat poop crazy to me that you used that as a real example. I mean....wow. What you are asking for literally happened, in real life, in the very game you are saying that it didn't happen in but you wish it had.

 

 

An "amazing" goal line stand in a scenario that they manufactured because they couldn't get a stop on 4th and 18?

Do you know what a strawman is? It looks like you've opened a factory my man.

[FireChans]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

It was too much to ask that our offense generate 0 yards and hold on to the ball.  Or that they lose a yard and hold on to the ball. 

 

Asking our offense to complete a center-QB exchange was completely unreasonable by our defense - BullBuchanan probably

Imagine saying the bare minimum was done by the defense, when the bare minimum by the offense/QB was “don’t fumble in your endzone,” and they couldn’t execute.

 

Josh could have run out of the back of the endzone. He could have thrown a pick 30 yards down the field. He could have taken a safety. All those things give us a better chance to win than not fumble for a TD the other way. 
 

Has to be trolling. No one could believe this.

 

 

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Your math is based on what?

The team needed positive yardage to win the game. QB sneaks in 2019 (last year I have available data) has an 88% success rate. 12% of the time you fail. If you fail when you start in your own endzone, that's a safety. So 12% of the time you're going to lose there.

Show your work.

Okay here you go…..

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35021856/was-vikings-bills-best-game-nfl-season-explaining-ending-justin-jefferson-catch-josh-allen-struggles-kirk-cousins-rise

 

“

When the Vikings failed on their fourth-and-goal sneak attempt from the 1-yard line with 50 seconds left in the game, the Bills were basically a lock to take home a victory, with a win expectancy of 99.9%. And when they promptly fumbled the ball away on a failed handoff to the Vikings for a defensive touchdown, Josh Allen & Co. were left with just a 5% chance of taking home a victory.

ESPN has win expectancy data going back through 2007. By this model, in terms of winning the game, the fumbled exchange between Allen and Mitch Morse was the worst offensive play any team has run during that 15-year span.”

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Your math is based on what?

The team needed positive yardage to win the game. QB sneaks in 2019 (last year I have available data) has an 88% success rate. 12% of the time you fail. If you fail when you start in your own endzone, that's a safety. So 12% of the time you're going to lose there.

Show your work.

I’m with you partially that there’s more to blame than the offense but sneaks are 88% successful when you need to GAIN yards.  We could’ve gotten back to the line for no gain and been fine.  
 

Heck we could’ve gotten safetied and maybe been ok…that’s what made the win percentage so high.  Your logic on this part of your explanation is entirely flawed but I’m partially with you on the general point 

losing yardage on a sneak in this new age where you can get shoved from behind is just about impossible 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[UKBillFan]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Who cares if he admits it?  Is that supposed to make me feel better about it?

 

Just stop doing it! 😡

 

This is where I am.

 

OK, he said he played badly in the second half against Green Bay - he'll learn his lesson, fair play.

Hmmm, I've heard his post Jets before from him, but at least he's taking the blame like he should.

FFS, this is the third week in a row, enough with SAYING that you were bad, Josh, and actually follow up the interviews with actions.

 

If he mucks up again agianst Cleveland in inexcusable circumstances, patience will be running thin. It shouldn't be that difficult to do the simple stuff right and not ram the ball three times in three games right down a defensive player's throat.

 

Sorry, rant over. 😔

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Imagine saying the bare minimum was done by the defense, when the bare minimum by the offense/QB was “don’t fumble in your endzone,” and they couldn’t execute.

 

Josh could have run out of the back of the endzone. He could have thrown a pick 30 yards down the field. He could have taken a safety. All those things give us a better chance to win than not fumble for a TD the other way. 
 

Has to be trolling. No one could believe this.

 

 

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

[Jauronimo]

 

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Many have turned on Allen in November about as quickly as they anointed him MVP in August. It’s the typical fluff fan petulance.

I haven't seen anyone turn on him.  I've seen a lot of white knighting about people turning on Allen.  I've seen a total intolerance of any criticism of Allen. 

 

Yet to see anyone say he should be benched, traded, or that we should move on with another QB.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

Okay here you go…..

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35021856/was-vikings-bills-best-game-nfl-season-explaining-ending-justin-jefferson-catch-josh-allen-struggles-kirk-cousins-rise

 

“

When the Vikings failed on their fourth-and-goal sneak attempt from the 1-yard line with 50 seconds left in the game, the Bills were basically a lock to take home a victory, with a win expectancy of 99.9%. And when they promptly fumbled the ball away on a failed handoff to the Vikings for a defensive touchdown, Josh Allen & Co. were left with just a 5% chance of taking home a victory.

ESPN has win expectancy data going back through 2007. By this model, in terms of winning the game, the fumbled exchange between Allen and Mitch Morse was the worst offensive play any team has run during that 15-year span.”

 

 

 

That doesn't show any work it just shows you quoting someone else from a model that likely doesn't take into account the bills were backed up into their own endzone.

Try again.

[sonyab1974]

2 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

He should. I know he's still a great QB, but his decision making in crunch time has to get better.

 

He should be looking in the mirror, it's the only way to fix the problem. 

 

For the record though even if they go 6-11 this year, the Bills and Allen are still my team lol.

Yes! The Bills and Allen are still my team too!!!! They gotta win next Sunday!!!!

[damj]

 

[FireChans]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

It literally was the worst play possible. Giving them the lead with 50 seconds left is the worst vs not doing that.

 

The Vikings kicker SUCKS. He missed 4 PATs this year.

 

Your hilarious broken brain logic is, “defense allowing 0 points is the bare minimum” and “turning it over to give them 7” is not.

 

Josh doesn’t need you to carry his sword. He knows he lost the game. Everyone knows, except you.

[TheFunPolice]

I blame the coaches, because this keeps happening. We keep blowing leads or losing close games, and it is due to lack of detail. 

 

there seems to be a mentality of "we'll just get it back after" which has worked a lot, but isn't going to work against top teams so often. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, FireChans said:

It literally was the worst play possible. Giving them the lead with 50 seconds left is the worst vs not doing that.

 

The Vikings kicker SUCKS. He missed 4 PATs this year.

 

Your hilarious broken brain logic is, “defense allowing 0 points is the bare minimum” and “turning it over to give them 7” is not.

 

Josh doesn’t need you to carry his sword. He knows he lost the game. Everyone knows, except you.

You're hopeless. Send me your address and I'll send you a Hooked on Phonics for Christmas.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

That doesn't show any work it just shows you quoting someone else from a model that likely doesn't take into account the bills were backed up into their own endzone.

Try again.

Lets see your math that supports expecting your offense to gain 0 yards or execute a QB-center exchange is unreasonable while we're being completely stupid. 

 

You are embarrassing yourself but I think you could go a lot lower.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The singletary fumble resulted in 0 points for us too though? Lol a bit of selective logic going on on both sides here.  Without the power of hindsight would you really be happy he threw the ball away on 4th down?  I find that incredibly hard to believe 

 

I am certainly not "OK" with the Singletary TO because all TO are bad. But that doesn't mean some are not worse. Singletary scored 2 TD's. Yes he had a turnover (booo!), but luckily it didn't diminish our lead. Josh threw 1 TD, had 2 INT's and a fumble that resulted in 14 points and ultimately ended the game. I didn't start the "whatabout-isms" on this one. That was Bull. I was just stating why I think Allen deserves so much blame this week. 

 

To your point about the INT. Yes, I would prefer to throw the ball away there, even without the benefit of hindsight. I would have been more OK with an INT had we been back a bit farther. We threw that INT from the 7. Part of the decision making in going for it there is that we give them the ball back inside the 10 and making them march down the field 93 yards. Throwing an INT in the end zone is absolutely off the table pre-snap because of field position. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mango

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

The only worse outcome than what happened was a fumble that minny recovered not in the end zone.  If we got safetied you could be correct that the defense wouldn’t hold up but the odds of losing yardage on a sneak (assuming you don’t fumble the snap) has gotta be 10,000 to 1.  
 

there were a lot of initial hot takes about how we shouldn’t have snuck it and so on which made it seem that a sneak in that situation is difficult but it really isn’t at all.  Your qb is falling forwards with momentum while getting pushed from behind gaining 0 yards is darned near a statistical certainty just based on physics lol 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan