“Disinformation”

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Brueggs said:

Transparency would be a great start.  With all of the speculation after the last presidential election, you would think that everything would be above board as to not even give the slightest appearance of impropriety.  Obviously you believe our elections are "free and fair", but half of the population does not.  That, in and of itself is a problem everyone should be concerned with.  

In that case, the problem isn’t with the elections themselves, but with an ignorant population easily moved by hucksters and bad faith actors.

 

So how do you combat stupid?

 

I ask honestly because I don’t know if there is a real solution. 

 

[Brueggs]

11 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

In that case, the problem isn’t with the elections themselves, but with an ignorant population easily moved by hucksters and bad faith actors.

 

So how do you combat stupid?

 

I ask honestly because I don’t know if there is a real solution. 

 

That makes no sense.  

 

Why not remove the probability of any skepticism?  Transparency of the process.  Is that really too much to ask for?  Its not a difficult or unreasonable request.  The ignorant population saw this coming long before it happened....something ignorant people don't generally do.  It was the usual plausible deniability built in advance, in the very places it was needed most.  Quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, but hey...trust the process.  There is no reason for these games when everything is on the up and up.

 

You really have no skepticism?  I think you may be grossly underestimating the insatiable appetite that the elite have for power, and what they are willing to do for it. 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Brueggs said:

Obviously you believe our elections are "free and fair", but half of the population does not.

"Half" seems to be a gross exaggeration. Polls are, of course, problematic these days (but note that they pretty much nailed the overall Republican +2 congressional preference these midterms), but they show that less than 30% believe that Biden's victory was tainted by fraud. About the same percentage of Republicans said that if their party didn't win the midterm elections if would be at least somewhat likely that fraud was a reason. Among Democrats, only about 18% said that if the Republicans win Congress they'd suspect fraud.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-two-americas-index

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by The Frankish Reich

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

That makes no sense.  

 

Why not remove the probability of any skepticism?  Transparency of the process.  Is that really too much to ask for?  Its not a difficult or unreasonable request.  The ignorant population saw this coming long before it happened....something ignorant people don't generally do.  It was the usual plausible deniability built in advance, in the very places it was needed most.  Quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, but hey...trust the process.  There is no reason for these games when everything is on the up and up.

 

You really have no skepticism?  I think you may be grossly underestimating the insatiable appetite that the elite have for power, and what they are willing to do for it. 

 

There are poll watchers and election judges overseeing the counts. You can be one if you want, I did it and it was fun!

 

They are giving regular updates as they count the ballots. These are what are being called “drops”. 
 

All of the states are still counting. No elections have been decided yet. But some of the races were not very close so the media was able to project the winners based on the returns at hand. Others were much closer, so they needed more returns in before making a projection or call. A small number are razor close, so we have to wait until more votes are counted before the media outlets will call those election. 
 

In all three instances, races “called” on Election Day, those called shortly after, and those that have not been called, are all still being counted. 
 

In many of these states, the authorities will perform audits and recounts to verify the elections before certification. 
 

Sure, there are changes we can make to improve the process but it’s fairly robust and transparent as it is. Counting mail-in ballots ahead of Election Day would be a nice improvement, but other than that, I’m not sure what improvement to the process itself would prevent these concerns. 

 

What I see here is not a lack of transparency (if that’s the issue, what would you suggest as a solution?), but people who are ignorant of what is happening being taken advantage of by bad faith actors. And I don’t mean ignorant as a pejorative, people don’t tend to have the time or interest to learn these things. Some of them are falling for misleading information or outright lies (like the Maricopa County tabulation machines being broken).

 

I’m not sure any change to the election process itself could fix that. It’s a much deeper problem. 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

There are poll watchers and election judges overseeing the counts. You can be one if you want, I did it and it was fun!

 

They are giving regular updates as they count the ballots. These are what are being called “drops”. 
 

All of the states are still counting. No elections have been decided yet. But some of the races were not very close so the media was able to project the winners based on the returns at hand. Others were much closer, so they needed more returns in before making a projection or call. A small number are razor close, so we have to wait until more votes are counted before the media outlets will call those election. 
 

In all three instances, races “called” on Election Day, those called shortly after, and those that have not been called, are all still being counted. 
 

In many of these states, the authorities will perform audits and recounts to verify the elections before certification. 
 

Sure, there are changes we can make to improve the process but it’s fairly robust and transparent as it is. Counting mail-in ballots ahead of Election Day would be a nice improvement, but other than that, I’m not sure what improvement to the process itself would prevent these concerns. 

 

What I see here is not a lack of transparency (if that’s the issue, what would you suggest as a solution?), but people who are ignorant of what is happening being taken advantage of by bad faith actors. And I don’t mean ignorant as a pejorative, people don’t tend to have the time or interest to learn these things. Some of them are falling for misleading information or outright lies (like the Maricopa County tabulation machines being broken).

 

I’m not sure any change to the election process itself could fix that. It’s a much deeper problem. 

 

Or like Russians hacking the election.  Stupidity abounds.

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Or like Russians hacking the election.  Stupidity abounds.

Correct. The Russians did not hack the 2016 elections. 
 

I think we can see what happens when party leaders push back on the crazies vs when they embrace them. 

[Brueggs]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

"Half" seems to be a gross exaggeration. Polls are, of course, problematic these days (but note that they pretty much nailed the overall Republican +2 congressional preference these midterms), but they show that less than 30% believe that Biden's victory was tainted by fraud. About the same percentage of Republicans said that if their party didn't win the midterm elections if would be at least somewhat likely that fraud was a reason. Among Democrats, only about 18% said that if the Republicans win Congress they'd suspect fraud.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-two-americas-index

 

 

Perhaps, but even at 30% its a cause for concern.  Knowing this sentiment is out there, and still conducting in a way that feeds that perception doesn't do anything to help clean it up.  

[ChiGoose]

21 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

Perhaps, but even at 30% its a cause for concern.  Knowing this sentiment is out there, and still conducting in a way that feeds that perception doesn't do anything to help clean it up.  

It is a cause for concern but the problem is education. 

 

29% of Americans are either unsure if we landed on the moon or believe that we didn’t.
 

28% of Americans are either unsure if vaccinations implant microchips or believe that they do. 

25% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is billions of years old or believe that it isn’t. 

19% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is flat or believe that it is. 
(Source)

Is the problem that we aren’t transparent enough about the moon landing?

 

 

 

[Brueggs]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

There are poll watchers and election judges overseeing the counts. You can be one if you want, I did it and it was fun!

 

They are giving regular updates as they count the ballots. These are what are being called “drops”. 
 

All of the states are still counting. No elections have been decided yet. But some of the races were not very close so the media was able to project the winners based on the returns at hand. Others were much closer, so they needed more returns in before making a projection or call. A small number are razor close, so we have to wait until more votes are counted before the media outlets will call those election. 
 

In all three instances, races “called” on Election Day, those called shortly after, and those that have not been called, are all still being counted. 
 

In many of these states, the authorities will perform audits and recounts to verify the elections before certification. 
 

Sure, there are changes we can make to improve the process but it’s fairly robust and transparent as it is. Counting mail-in ballots ahead of Election Day would be a nice improvement, but other than that, I’m not sure what improvement to the process itself would prevent these concerns. 

 

What I see here is not a lack of transparency (if that’s the issue, what would you suggest as a solution?), but people who are ignorant of what is happening being taken advantage of by bad faith actors. And I don’t mean ignorant as a pejorative, people don’t tend to have the time or interest to learn these things. Some of them are falling for misleading information or outright lies (like the Maricopa County tabulation machines being broken).

 

I’m not sure any change to the election process itself could fix that. It’s a much deeper problem. 

Counting mail ins would be a start, but it also seems that the mail ins are the root of the problem.  I understand it can be a necessity for some, but its being promoted in many states.  There is also the problem of people not voting because of long lines, so I don't have an answer of how to fix the problems.  I would like to think that after the last presidential election, that the experts would have bent over backwards to do better.  I expect a degree of ineptness when it comes to government, but this is something that deserves attention, and for some reason, they ignored it.  They can't really be that stupid, so I see corruption guised as ineptness.  

[Brueggs]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

It is a cause for concern but the problem is education. 

 

29% of Americans are either unsure if we landed on the moon or believe that we didn’t.
 

28% of Americans are either unsure if vaccinations implant microchips or believe that they do. 

25% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is billions of years old or believe that it isn’t. 

19% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is flat or believe that it is. 
(Source)

Is the problem that we aren’t transparent enough about the moon landing?

 

 

 

I agree, education is a problem.  Interestingly enough, that began in 1979.....with the Department of Education...run by you guessed it, the government.  Now they are tying to make everyone into good subservient corporate empoyees.

The same government told us that if you got vaccinated, you wouldn't get the virus, or spread it. 

The same government that has produced hundreds of multi-millionaires from sub 200k salaries, funded by big pharma and other giant companies of whose policies they reign over.

You can continue to trust, but I think skepticism is well warranted.

 

 

[ChiGoose]

11 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

Counting mail ins would be a start, but it also seems that the mail ins are the root of the problem.  I understand it can be a necessity for some, but it’s being promoted in many states.  There is also the problem of people not voting because of long lines, so I don't have an answer of how to fix the problems.  I would like to think that after the last presidential election, that the experts would have bent over backwards to do better.  I expect a degree of ineptness when it comes to government, but this is something that deserves attention, and for some reason, they ignored it.  They can't really be that stupid, so I see corruption guised as ineptness.  

Some states tried to make changes before this election. Given their expected importance in this election, PA tried to pass a law to allow for counting of mail in ballots before Election Day but it failed to pass. 
 

Election officials are not all powerful, they have to follow the law. So even if they wanted to process the PA ballots when they came in, they were barred from doing so by law.

 

Mail in ballots have never been considered a problem before 2020. Many states have traditionally used mail in ballots. I think Oregon is basically entirely mail in. And they don’t experience widespread fraud. 
 

In fact, many GOP campaign experts were angry at Trump for taking aim at mail in ballots because they considered them crucial for their success. If I recall correctly, the Florida GOP traditionally used mail in ballots extensively because it allowed them to bank votes early and reallocate the extra election resources to GOTV for Election Day. 
 

If I could wave a magic wand and “fix” the laws so that mail in ballots could be counted earlier, and there were paper copies of every ballot, and every election had at least a risk-limiting audit, if not a full recount before certification, I would.
 

But even then, all of the ballots still wouldn’t be counted on Election Day and extremely close races would still take days to resolve. And the lies and misinformation would continue. 

[B-Man]

13 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Mail in ballots have never been considered a problem before 2020.

 

 

‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” That quote is the conclusion of the bipartisan 2005 report of the Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker III.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, I know . . . . . . "potential"

 

 

Meanwhile:

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

It is a cause for concern but the problem is education. 

 

29% of Americans are either unsure if we landed on the moon or believe that we didn’t.
 

28% of Americans are either unsure if vaccinations implant microchips or believe that they do. 

25% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is billions of years old or believe that it isn’t. 

19% of Americans are either unsure if the Earth is flat or believe that it is. 
(Source)

Is the problem that we aren’t transparent enough about the moon landing?

 

 

 

95% of Bills fans believe there is a worldwide conspiracy to keep the team from ever winning the Super Bowl!

[BillsFanNC]

40 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

‘Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” That quote is the conclusion of the bipartisan 2005 report of the Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker III.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, I know . . . . . . "potential"

 

 

Meanwhile:

 

 

 

And when you increase access to mail in voting....the exact opposite of what the bipartisan committee recommended....then the potential for fraud increases. Linearly? Exponentially? Who knows, but if it's a known avenue for fraud then increasing access to it increases potential likelihood of fraud. Period.

 

What it most certainly does not do is create a situation for the most secure election in US history.

 

You have to be a partisan hack and/or a person I want to talk to about my beautiful piece of oceanfront property in Iowa to believe that. 

[Big Blitz]

I’m stunned I tell you!

 

 

 

NBC acknowledges myocarditis link to COVID-19 vaccines after sudden deaths of young adults

 

NBC admits what used to be banned as 'misinformation.'

 

In a sign of a potential shift in the mainstream media’s coverage of the issue, NBC News has published a report acknowledging a possible link between COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis.

 

NBC’s November 12 report opens with an anecdote about Detroit resident Da’Vion Miller, who at age 22 passed out at his home and was later hospitalized and diagnosed with myocarditis and pericarditis one week after receiving his first dose of Pfizer’s mRNA-based COVID shot and was subsequently advised by doctors not to receive his second.

 

It then goes on to say “there have been around 1,000 reports of vaccine-related myocarditis or pericarditis in children under age 18, primarily young males, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.” The U.S. government’s federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) gives a much higher number for overall myocarditis and pericarditis cases, 53,836 as of November 4. An April study out of Israel indicatesthat COVID infection alone cannot account for such cases, despite claims to the contrary.
 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/nbc-acknowledges-myocarditis-link-to-covid-19-vaccines-after-sudden-deaths-of-young-adults/
 

[Westside]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:54 PM, The Frankish Reich said:

"Half" seems to be a gross exaggeration. Polls are, of course, problematic these days (but note that they pretty much nailed the overall Republican +2 congressional preference these midterms), but they show that less than 30% believe that Biden's victory was tainted by fraud. About the same percentage of Republicans said that if their party didn't win the midterm elections if would be at least somewhat likely that fraud was a reason. Among Democrats, only about 18% said that if the Republicans win Congress they'd suspect fraud.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-two-americas-index

 

 

If we didn’t spend the last six years of left wingers yelling russian interference than I might believe your only 18% of liberals would cry interference.

So I’m calling BS on your comment. The left are the biggest crybabies in politics. That’s a fact!

[billsfanmiamioh]

On 11/15/2022 at 1:15 PM, All_Pro_Bills said:

95% of Bills fans believe there is a worldwide conspiracy to keep the team from ever winning the Super Bowl!

And they’d be right…X files confirmed it 😉

[L Ron Burgundy]

57 minutes ago, Westside said:

If we didn’t spend the last six years of left wingers yelling russian interference than I might believe your only 18% of liberals would cry interference.

So I’m calling BS on your comment. The left are the biggest crybabies in politics. That’s a fact!

Stop the steal!

 

You sir, are a joke.

[ChiGoose]

58 minutes ago, Westside said:

If we didn’t spend the last six years of left wingers yelling russian interference than I might believe your only 18% of liberals would cry interference.

So I’m calling BS on your comment. The left are the biggest crybabies in politics. That’s a fact!

Do you honestly believe that Russia did not attempt to interfere in the 2016 election?

[Westside]

Just now, L Ron Burgundy said:

Stop the steal!

 

You sir, are a joke.

If I’m a joke, then you’re a f’n moron. You are one of the crybabies I was posting about. Grow up.