WR2/SLOT & Allen/Dorsey

[SCBills]

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  
 

Why?  Is Dorsey a 15 year old with an XBox?  Did Allen forget how to throw short/intermediate?  
 

(Hopefully) No and No.  I know this because Allen will throw chain movers to Diggs. 
 

The loss of a Cole Beasley type safety blanket looms large, it seems. 
 

Davis is a deep threat who has not shown a development into WR2 route tree capability.  
 

Knox has been blocking, a lot, and also has been going through the loss of his brother. 
 

Shakir is a rookie and they don’t trust him yet.  
 

McKenzie is not a full time slot WR.  Experiment failed. Halfway through the season.  Big enough sample size, and I’m of the impression Allen doesn’t trust him on hot/tight routes. 
 

Allen didn’t forget how to throw chain movers.  I don’t think Dorsey is an idiotic Madden play caller.  
 

We. Don’t. Have. The. Dudes.  
 

We weren’t coughing up picks for Claypool or Cooks, so we traded a pick for a RB that Beane talked about as a slot WR in his presser. 
 

Teams have keyed on Diggs and Davis. Bracket Diggs and put your CB1 on Davis.   They know we don’t have a running game that we’ll stick with, and nobody is currently worried about McKenzie, Knox, Shakir or a RB. 
 

We have a Jimmy’s and Joe’s problem right now more than an X’s and O’s one. 
 

Edited November 6, 2022 by SCBills

[Process]

That's a lot of words to say what we've known for 10 months....this team desperately needs to upgrade at WR. Beane chose to do nothing about it in the off-season. Hopefully he'll do something about it now and sign OBJ.

[Rc2catch]

I think McKenzie back in the gadget role is best. His only good play today was the sweep. Shakir I thought already earned more play time. Not sure what the holdup is. Maybe things get a little more creative when Hines gets on the field. Definitely would like to see more motion pre snap. It’s the only thing I like about miamis offense. They are motioning a ton and giving Tua 2-3 quick reads including the motion man if there’s pressure and of course deeper reads over the middle if he gets a clean pocket. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Process said:

That's a lot of words to say what we've known for 10 months....this team desperately needs to upgrade at WR. Beane chose to do nothing about it in the off-season. Hopefully he'll do something about it now and sign OBJ.

And what do we do if we don’t sign OBJ or OBJ isn’t OBJ….

 

The season can’t hinge on that.  
 

If we don’t have the guys to run the current offense, the offense needs to change. 

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  
 

Why?  Is Dorsey a 15 year old with an XBox?  Did Allen forget how to throw short/intermediate?  
 

(Hopefully) No and No.  I know this because Allen will throw chain movers to Diggs. 
 

The loss of a Cole Beasley type safety blanket looms large, it seems. 
 

Davis is a deep threat who has not shown a development into WR2 route tree capability.  
 

Knox has been blocking, a lot, and also has been going through the loss of his brother. 
 

Shakir is a rookie and they don’t trust him yet.  
 

McKenzie is not a full time slot WR.  Experiment failed. Halfway through the season.  Big enough sample size, and I’m of the impression Allen doesn’t trust him on hot/tight routes. 
 

Allen didn’t forget how to throw chain movers.  I don’t think Dorsey is an idiotic Madden play caller.  
 

We. Don’t. Have. The. Dudes.  
 

We weren’t coughing up picks for Claypool or Cooks, so we traded a pick for a RB that Beane talked about as a slot WR in his presser. 
 

Teams have keyed on Diggs and Davis. Bracket Diggs and put your CB1 on Davis.   They know we don’t have a running game that we’ll stick with, and nobody is currently worried about McKenzie, Knox, Shakir or a RB. 
 

We have a Jimmy’s and Joe’s problem right now more than an X’s and O’s one. 
 

 

I dunno, I saw multiple times today that Allen had an underneath route wide open and he chose to push the ball downfield instead. That one that was thrown way behind Diggs late in the game on a 2nd down that almost got picked off was one of them. It's frustrating to watch.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  
 

Why?  Is Dorsey a 15 year old with an XBox?  Did Allen forget how to throw short/intermediate?  
 

(Hopefully) No and No.  I know this because Allen will throw chain movers to Diggs. 
 

The loss of a Cole Beasley type safety blanket looms large, it seems. 
 

Davis is a deep threat who has not shown a development into WR2 route tree capability.  
 

Knox has been blocking, a lot, and also has been going through the loss of his brother. 
 

Shakir is a rookie and they don’t trust him yet.  
 

McKenzie is not a full time slot WR.  Experiment failed. Halfway through the season.  Big enough sample size, and I’m of the impression Allen doesn’t trust him on hot/tight routes. 
 

Allen didn’t forget how to throw chain movers.  I don’t think Dorsey is an idiotic Madden play caller.  
 

We. Don’t. Have. The. Dudes.  
 

We weren’t coughing up picks for Claypool or Cooks, so we traded a pick for a RB that Beane talked about as a slot WR in his presser. 
 

Teams have keyed on Diggs and Davis. Bracket Diggs and put your CB1 on Davis.   They know we don’t have a running game that we’ll stick with, and nobody is currently worried about McKenzie, Knox, Shakir or a RB. 
 

We have a Jimmy’s and Joe’s problem right now more than an X’s and O’s one. 
 

I actually think Dorsey has struggled with creativity when things aren't going well.

 

Jets were having a ton of success rushing 4 and teeing off on their pass rush. 

 

Folks got on Daboll for being too "cute," but today is a day where I have liked to see some bubble screens or jet motion with McKenzie. Anything to get the defense to think twice about only playing the pass.

 

The call for the QB sweep was incredible, the Jets were completely out of position, including the safety. 

 

Sometimes the OC has to bail out the offense when its slumping, and I would have liked to see some of that last week and this week.

[Bangarang]

Not sure why the coaching staff wouldn’t trust Shakir. All he’s done is make plays when given the chance. Perhaps they’re hoping Crowder comes back soon

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Might not be impossible to get Beasley back. Not sure what the rules are. Everyone talks about OBJ like it’s there if we want it…there’s more to that decision then us just saying please. Might want to start working on a plan B

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Might not be impossible to get Beasley back. Not sure what the rules are. Everyone talks about OBJ like it’s there if we want it…there’s more to that decision then us just saying please. Might want to start working on a plan B

Not happening.  I’d faint if I got that alert. 
 

Haven’t heard a word about Crowder.  Seems like he’s done for the year, or for a while at least.  
 

I know Stevenson is almost back… not exactly a proven option, but maybe him running deep routes can free up Davis for more underneath/intermediate stuff … if he’s capable of that. 

[AuntieEm]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

I dunno, I saw multiple times today that Allen had an underneath route wide open and he chose to push the ball downfield instead. That one that was thrown way behind Diggs late in the game on a 2nd down that almost got picked off was one of them. It's frustrating to watch.

 

       Refusing to take any check downs is just as bad a flaw as being Capt Checkdown.  Got to force teams to respect attacks at every level of the field. When they can ignore parts it just makes it easier to defend.  Hoping they can develop a good screen/safety valve system with Hines being the wrinkle other teams can't deal with.

 

 

[Jamone]

Bring back Beasley!

Edited November 7, 2022 by Jamone

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Might not be impossible to get Beasley back. Not sure what the rules are. Everyone talks about OBJ like it’s there if we want it…there’s more to that decision then us just saying please. Might want to start working on a plan B

lol stop it. The dude has been beyond washed up for 2 seasons. Every WR on our roster is better than he is right now.

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  
 

The Offensive coordinator doesn't call deep shots or checkdowns - the QB does based on their reads of the defense. On mutliple occasions Josh had underneath routes wide open, but through low percentage shots down the field. It's a pattern with him that goes back years. Allen needs to stop being so stubborn if he wants to take the next step, because some coaches have already figured him out. That doesn't mean he won't still be the best player int he game, but it may stop him from Winning Super Bowls or reaching his ceiling.
 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

If someone doesn’t believe this is worthy of its own thread, feel free to merge. 
 

A lot of talk about the passing game and Allen/Dorsey. 
 

We have no move the chain passing game.   How many teams do you see out there, with functioning offenses, that don’t have a slot or tight end to move the chains?

 

Dorsey is calling games like Madden.  Deep shots or check downs to RB’s.  

 

 

Question: are you so sure that those move-the-chains passes to the slot aren't there, schemed into the play, and open more often than not?

Because it can be very difficult to see that from the broadcast film, but even from today's broadcast film I caught glimpses.

 

And last week in the 2nd half vs. Green Bay, you could clearly see options open at the point where Josh threw a deep ball that got picked (for example)

 

So: is the lack of move-the-chains passing game not there because it's not schemed up in the play design, or because Josh either doesn't trust it, or doesn't want to take it?

 

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Haven’t heard a word about Crowder.  Seems like he’s done for the year, or for a while at least. 

 

Beane addressed this in his trade-deadline presser. 

 

I had thought, based upon analysis from Banged Up Bills, that Crowder was done for the year (4-6 month injury)

 

On Weds however, Beane said that a return had not been ruled out.  So I came on here and acknowledged and asked for my Crow.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[Bferra13]

This is craziness. We beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead with this roster and have fought injuries all year. Josh has, and self admittedly, sucked for 6 quarters now. And throw in some mind boggling offensive play calling with that. I don't care if you have 88' prime Jerry Rice on the roster. If the quarterback can't make the throw it doesn't matter. It will fix itself.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Not sure why the coaching staff wouldn’t trust Shakir. All he’s done is make plays when given the chance. Perhaps they’re hoping Crowder comes back soon

 

I'm pretty sure on Josh's 2nd interception that he expected Shakir to do one thing based upon the defensive coverage and Shakir's body language, and Shakir did something else.   That's how it works; the slot has options, and if he and the QB aren't on the same page about the coverage and which option he chooses, there will be a pick.

 

People like to write as though Shakir is some miracle cure that the coaches and Josh don't trust because they're stupid, but in fact he's getting snaps and he's a good amount, either not open or not on the same page with Josh.  He's got 1 reception on 4 targets in the last 2 games.

 

And please, when reading this, keep in mind that I like Shakir, I expect him to eventually succeed and be a very good player for us.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[offyourocker]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Not sure why the coaching staff wouldn’t trust Shakir. All he’s done is make plays when given the chance. Perhaps they’re hoping Crowder comes back soon

This is so frustrating to me.  Shakir is not trusted because he is a rookie yet he has made some great plays.  McKenzie keeps slipping twice a game and drops a couple balls a game

[Bangarang]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm pretty sure on Josh's 2nd interception that he expected Shakir to do one thing based upon the defensive coverage and Shakir's body language, and Shakir did something else.   That's how it works; the slot has options, and if he and the QB aren't on the same page about the coverage and which option he chooses, there will be a pick.

 

People like to write as though Shakir is some miracle cure that the coaches and Josh don't trust because they're stupid, but in fact he's getting snaps and he's a good amount, either not open or not on the same page with Josh.  He's got 1 reception on 4 targets in the last 2 games.

The throw on the 2nd interception was to Gabe Davis. Shakir was playing on the outside on the opposite side of the play. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

The throw on the 2nd interception was to Gabe Davis. Shakir was playing on the outside on the opposite side of the play. 

Gabe and Josh were clearly not on the same page

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, offyourocker said:

This is so frustrating to me.  Shakir is not trusted because he is a rookie yet he has made some great plays.  McKenzie keeps slipping twice a game and drops a couple balls a game

 

Dude.  1 for 4 in the last 2 games.  Not open on some of his snaps.  Possibly miscommunication responsible for Pick #2.

 

Again, I like Shakir, I think he has a high ceiling and I expect him to work hard and reach it, but people have this fixation with praising him (and now Hines) and dunking on McKenzie that's all out of sync with factual in-game observations and performance.

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Not sure why the coaching staff wouldn’t trust Shakir. All he’s done is make plays when given the chance. Perhaps they’re hoping Crowder comes back soon

He may not even be back this season,  let alone soon, per Beane.  This coaching staff is so damn stubborn.   No adjustments. So frustrating