Shaw66 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Over the past few seasons teams have been developing the approach to neutralizing the mobile quarterback. The Bills were an early adopter, and I think they are continuing the development of the technique. The basic approach is that the pass rushers have to maintain lane discipline, so that none of the usual escape routes are easily available to the QB. Murray beat the Bills on the Hail Mary because someone bit instead of holding the edge. The Bills used the technique beautifully against Lamar Jackson in the playoffs, and they did it to him again last week. Essentially, the way the Bills play it, they're willing to let the guy scramble around back there and even complete some passes, and they will just try to shrink the net around him until he throws it or runs someplace where there isn't a good lane. The philosophy is that the big QB runs simply must be stopped. It was interesting, for example, that on the big 4th down play in Baltimore a couple of weeks ago, Miller wasn't in the game, because Rousseau and Shaq are more natural players in that kind of scheme. Miller's strength is his ability to attack from different angles with different techniques, and if you force him to maintain the edge at all costs, you're taking away his strength. The Bills used the same techniques against Mahomes, because he is an elite scrambler. He wasn't able to escape much, and the Bills were willing to contain him even if it meant he'd make an occasional play (including one for a touchdown). The Bills won, so the technique worked. The interesting wrinkle the Bills added was what forced the Johnson interception. Someone on NBC or ESPN explained it. They had Miller on the left side of the defense, and they had Milano spying Mahomes. The spying technique is, I gather, that the spy stays even with the QB laterally, and if the QB breaks contain, then the spy closes. Running Milano as the spy allows the Bills to turn Miller loose, so that he can take whatever path to the QB he wants, because Milano can read Miller and shut down the gap that Miller leaves exposed. The Bills ran that defense on both of Mahomes' two plays with under a minute left. Miller looped to the inside on both plays, and as Miller's rush forced Mahomes out to the right, Milano attacked and protected the edge that Miller abandoned. The second time, Milano was coming fast enough that Mahomes knew he needed one of his side-arm specials to get the ball past Milano and to the receiver. Mahomes misjudged the geometry - he knew he had to throw the ball to the right of Milano's line of attack, and he thought he could still get the ball enough toward the middle of the field so that his receiver could keep the defenders on his back. There wasn't room to do that, so he ended up leaving the ball a bit to the right, in a place where Johnson could make his play. The more important part of the play was that Mahomes threw it because he knew that Milano wouldn't allow him to continue running to the sideline and perhaps downfield for nice gain, maybe a first down. That is, coming from behind the line of scrimmage, Milano provided the edge protection that Mahomes. The other interesting part of this approach is that the Bills rushed three on the interception - Milano was effectively the fourth pass rusher, but his pass rush duties were delayed until the other three rushers forced Mahomes to commit. The Bills can do this because of Milano's speed and quickness and because of his open-field tackling ability. Because they can rush three with Milano waiting, the Bills still can drop seven into coverage. If the cover guys do their jobs, Mahomes maybe scrambling around back there for a while, but the seven pass defenders can make it difficult for him to find an uncontested throw. It was an excellent scheme to throw at Mahomes. He'll be ready next time, and the Bills will come at him with some other wrinkles. It's a creative defensive adjustment that is part of the growing arsenal used to stop the QB from hurting you with his legs. And it's part of the reason that the only way a running QB can survive in the NFL is the same way all other QBs survive in the NFL - you have to be a premier pocket passer. When the Ravens play the Bills, they can use the same techniques on Allen that the Bills use on Jackson. The difference is that when the QB is contained in the pocket, the Ravens have Jackson throwing and the Bills have Allen. No contest. 4 3 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Rotary Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Great write-up and explains a lot of the individual moving pieces I observed during the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I heard from a terrible former ex Bill that the spy concept doesn’t work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Interesting analysis, Shaw. I never thought of it that way. And since it's a copycat league, the Bills just showed the other teams how to contain Mahomes. Ironically, we'll see teams doing that against Josh. Lucky for us that there aren't 31 more Milanos out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I noticed in the fourth quarter that it almost looked like the Bills, ex Miller, were pulling up at the end of their rush to maintain the "net" around Mahomes instead of going for the sack and leaving him an escape route. I saw that on ore than one play. Clearly, and the end, they rushed three, used Milano as the spy, specifically to cut down on the the intermediate routes that are lower trajectory throws and thus, can be batted. Interesting adjustment, I thought. I still can't believe they are incapable of disrupting Kelce. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, sherpa said: I noticed in the fourth quarter that it almost looked like the Bills, ex Miller, were pulling up at the end of their rush to maintain the "net" around Mahomes instead of going for the sack and leaving him an escape route. I saw that on ore than one play. Clearly, and the end, they rushed three, used Milano as the spy, specifically to cut down on the the intermediate routes that are lower trajectory throws and thus, can be batted. Interesting adjustment, I thought. I still can't believe they are incapable of disrupting Kelce. I think they're coached not to close on him unless they him contained. So, yes, it almost looks like they don't want tackle him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Allen seems a lot more willing to check the ball down or take the short completions this year compared to Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: I heard from a terrible former ex Bill that the spy concept doesn’t work! There's some truth to that. A lot of times it doesn't. It has been attempted unsuccessfully many times vs Josh. But at times, with good timing and the right athlete in place (Milano yesterday!) it works most effectively! Kudos to Frazier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sherpa said: I noticed in the fourth quarter that it almost looked like the Bills, ex Miller, were pulling up at the end of their rush to maintain the "net" around Mahomes instead of going for the sack and leaving him an escape route. I saw that on ore than one play. Clearly, and the end, they rushed three, used Milano as the spy, specifically to cut down on the the intermediate routes that are lower trajectory throws and thus, can be batted. Interesting adjustment, I thought. I still can't believe they are incapable of disrupting Kelce. I noticed that a lot too. They would beat their man and then stop their rush and wait for Mahomes to respond. The Bills got KILLED by Mahomes scrambles last time we played them. Clearly this was a focus area for the Bills this time around. And yeah, nobody can stop Kelce. It's unlike anything I have ever seen at the TE position. He is unstoppable. But they kept him out of the end zone, which is the most you can do. Edited October 17, 2022 by MJS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 23 hours ago, WhoTom said: Interesting analysis, Shaw. I never thought of it that way. And since it's a copycat league, the Bills just showed the other teams how to contain Mahomes. Ironically, we'll see teams doing that against Josh. Lucky for us that there aren't 31 more Milanos out there. Maybe Leslie will get the credit he deserves. 23 hours ago, MJS said: I noticed that a lot too. They would beat their man and then stop their rush and wait for Mahomes to respond. The Bills got KILLED by Mahomes scrambles last time we played them. Clearly this was a focus area for the Bills this time around. And yeah, nobody can stop Kelce. It's unlike anything I have ever seen at the TE position. He is unstoppable. But they kept him out of the end zone, which is the most you can do. They did make Kelce hesitate from all of the hits by Siran Neal. When he was on field Kelce was always keeping an eye on hm when he was doing his routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Progress Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 When you can disrupt the passer with just three rushers and have the luxury of a spy without weakening your coverage on the back end, your defense has an advantage that very few teams have. Adding talent to our D-Line (Miller, Jones and an improved Rousseau) has really made a huge difference for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 1:40 PM, Shaw66 said: Over the past few seasons teams have been developing the approach to neutralizing the mobile quarterback. The Bills were an early adopter, and I think they are continuing the development of the technique. The basic approach is that the pass rushers have to maintain lane discipline, so that none of the usual escape routes are easily available to the QB. Murray beat the Bills on the Hail Mary because someone bit instead of holding the edge. The Bills used the technique beautifully against Lamar Jackson in the playoffs, and they did it to him again last week. Essentially, the way the Bills play it, they're willing to let the guy scramble around back there and even complete some passes, and they will just try to shrink the net around him until he throws it or runs someplace where there isn't a good lane. The philosophy is that the big QB runs simply must be stopped. It was interesting, for example, that on the big 4th down play in Baltimore a couple of weeks ago, Miller wasn't in the game, because Rousseau and Shaq are more natural players in that kind of scheme. Miller's strength is his ability to attack from different angles with different techniques, and if you force him to maintain the edge at all costs, you're taking away his strength. The Bills used the same techniques against Mahomes, because he is an elite scrambler. He wasn't able to escape much, and the Bills were willing to contain him even if it meant he'd make an occasional play (including one for a touchdown). The Bills won, so the technique worked. The interesting wrinkle the Bills added was what forced the Johnson interception. Someone on NBC or ESPN explained it. They had Miller on the left side of the defense, and they had Milano spying Mahomes. The spying technique is, I gather, that the spy stays even with the QB laterally, and if the QB breaks contain, then the spy closes. Running Milano as the spy allows the Bills to turn Miller loose, so that he can take whatever path to the QB he wants, because Milano can read Miller and shut down the gap that Miller leaves exposed. The Bills ran that defense on both of Mahomes' two plays with under a minute left. Miller looped to the inside on both plays, and as Miller's rush forced Mahomes out to the right, Milano attacked and protected the edge that Miller abandoned. The second time, Milano was coming fast enough that Mahomes knew he needed one of his side-arm specials to get the ball past Milano and to the receiver. Mahomes misjudged the geometry - he knew he had to throw the ball to the right of Milano's line of attack, and he thought he could still get the ball enough toward the middle of the field so that his receiver could keep the defenders on his back. There wasn't room to do that, so he ended up leaving the ball a bit to the right, in a place where Johnson could make his play. The more important part of the play was that Mahomes threw it because he knew that Milano wouldn't allow him to continue running to the sideline and perhaps downfield for nice gain, maybe a first down. That is, coming from behind the line of scrimmage, Milano provided the edge protection that Mahomes. The other interesting part of this approach is that the Bills rushed three on the interception - Milano was effectively the fourth pass rusher, but his pass rush duties were delayed until the other three rushers forced Mahomes to commit. The Bills can do this because of Milano's speed and quickness and because of his open-field tackling ability. Because they can rush three with Milano waiting, the Bills still can drop seven into coverage. If the cover guys do their jobs, Mahomes maybe scrambling around back there for a while, but the seven pass defenders can make it difficult for him to find an uncontested throw. It was an excellent scheme to throw at Mahomes. He'll be ready next time, and the Bills will come at him with some other wrinkles. It's a creative defensive adjustment that is part of the growing arsenal used to stop the QB from hurting you with his legs. And it's part of the reason that the only way a running QB can survive in the NFL is the same way all other QBs survive in the NFL - you have to be a premier pocket passer. When the Ravens play the Bills, they can use the same techniques on Allen that the Bills use on Jackson. The difference is that when the QB is contained in the pocket, the Ravens have Jackson throwing and the Bills have Allen. No contest. On their last FG drive everyone around me at the stadium was calling for Mahomes to throw it - but I think he knew it would be called back if he threw it as almost all of his linemen were down field as he scrambled towards the LOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) On 10/17/2022 at 12:40 PM, Shaw66 said: The interesting wrinkle the Bills added was what forced the Johnson interception. Someone on NBC or ESPN explained it. They had Miller on the left side of the defense, and they had Milano spying Mahomes. The spying technique is, I gather, that the spy stays even with the QB laterally, and if the QB breaks contain, then the spy closes. Running Milano as the spy allows the Bills to turn Miller loose, so that he can take whatever path to the QB he wants, because Milano can read Miller and shut down the gap that Miller leaves exposed. The Bills ran that defense on both of Mahomes' two plays with under a minute left. Miller looped to the inside on both plays, and as Miller's rush forced Mahomes out to the right, Milano attacked and protected the edge that Miller abandoned. The second time, Milano was coming fast enough that Mahomes knew he needed one of his side-arm specials to get the ball past Milano and to the receiver. Mahomes misjudged the geometry - he knew he had to throw the ball to the right of Milano's line of attack, and he thought he could still get the ball enough toward the middle of the field so that his receiver could keep the defenders on his back. There wasn't room to do that, so he ended up leaving the ball a bit to the right, in a place where Johnson could make his play. The more important part of the play was that Mahomes threw it because he knew that Milano wouldn't allow him to continue running to the sideline and perhaps downfield for nice gain, maybe a first down. That is, coming from behind the line of scrimmage, Milano provided the edge protection that Mahomes. The other interesting part of this approach is that the Bills rushed three on the interception - Milano was effectively the fourth pass rusher, but his pass rush duties were delayed until the other three rushers forced Mahomes to commit. The Bills can do this because of Milano's speed and quickness and because of his open-field tackling ability. Because they can rush three with Milano waiting, the Bills still can drop seven into coverage. If the cover guys do their jobs, Mahomes maybe scrambling around back there for a while, but the seven pass defenders can make it difficult for him to find an uncontested throw. It was an excellent scheme to throw at Mahomes. He'll be ready next time, and the Bills will come at him with some other wrinkles. Good write-up. The other wrinkle is that the Bills played 1/2 the field Man, 1/2 the field zone. The RB Mahomes sent in motion triggered one of the man defenders to move with him, so Mahomes thought it was man with the CB in trail technique. He didn't see Taron Johnson there ready to read his eyes and jump the route. I'm bad at identifying coverages unless I can watch the play on all 22 several times, but from what I can tell it's something other teams are using on the Bills in an attempt to disguise coverage. 3 hours ago, Forward Progress said: When you can disrupt the passer with just three rushers and have the luxury of a spy without weakening your coverage on the back end, your defense has an advantage that very few teams have. Adding talent to our D-Line (Miller, Jones and an improved Rousseau) has really made a huge difference for us. Don't forget BigJ97 Phillips and Tim Settle. On 10/17/2022 at 2:06 PM, MJS said: And yeah, nobody can stop Kelce. It's unlike anything I have ever seen at the TE position. He is unstoppable. But they kept him out of the end zone, which is the most you can do. They showed a clip of one of the assistant coaches on the sideline giving a psych-up talk to his DBs "yards don't matter, points matter" Edited October 19, 2022 by Beck Water 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel City Mafia Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 1:57 PM, sherpa said: I still can't believe they are incapable of disrupting Kelce. Well, they can. But then they have to leave something else open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 https://theathletic.com/3700790/2022/10/18/bills-chiefs-defense-patrick-mahomes/?source=user_shared_article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 I agree with many of these points. Cover One has been preaching a 3 man rush against our brother Patrick since last year. The Bengals rushed 3 over 50% of the time in the AFC Championship last year, iirc. I agree about Miller's strengths also. In any event we love football and we love winning. Nice thoughts on the DProcess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 It really is the most important aspect in the art of defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 2:41 PM, WhoTom said: Interesting analysis, Shaw. I never thought of it that way. And since it's a copycat league, the Bills just showed the other teams how to contain Mahomes. Ironically, we'll see teams doing that against Josh. Lucky for us that there aren't 31 more Milanos out there. Copy cat strategies only work if you have the right personnel. Matt Milano, being as good as he is reading and anticipating , combined with his quickness, makes the spying tactic work for the Bills. I suspect some teams don't have the guy who can make it work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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