NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

 

His head slammed the ground.  He wasnt knocked to his knees from pain, he collapased from loss of motor control.

[CountDorkula]

Does this look familiar: Not saying this si what happened but it looks identical to what Tua did last night

 

Decorticate posture is an abnormal posturing in which a person is stiff with bent arms, clenched fists, and legs held out straight. The arms are bent in toward the body and the wrists and fingers are bent and held on the chest. This type of posturing is a sign of severe damage in the brain.

 

Considerations

Decorticate posture is a sign of damage to the nerve pathway in the midbrain, which is between the brain and spinal cord. The midbrain controls motor movement. Although decorticate posture is serious, it is usually not as serious as a type of abnormal posture called decerebrate posture.

The posturing may occur on one or both sides of the body.

Edited September 30, 2022 by CountDorkula

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don’t disagree. However, a doctor should be able to see Tua stumble and fall, right after the back of his head smacking off the turf, and call BS.

 

The thing is that an EMT at the OP vs. West Seneca JV game wouldn't OK that person to return to the game. If Tua started to lecture about string theory it wouldn't matter. The evidence on the field alone is enough to keep a pop warner kid off the field. I likely wouldn't be allowed to return for another shift in my bar league hockey game. 

In order for Tua to return you have to throw out evidence and/or be willing to explain it via something else. 

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't think that's right.  Bates was limited yesterday and he is in the protocol.  I'm sure limited is a very broad term but he was still practicing. 

Because they flat out lied that he wasn’t concussed. “Upper back” injury

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

I’d like to see the stats on your last statement before commenting further.

 

How does someone get through all 5 stages of protocol after a mandatory rest period in 3 days? Especially for an away game.

 

The NFL’s return-to-play protocol features five, rather than six, steps:5

 

Symptom limited activity: Following a period of rest, the athlete gradually reintroduces light physical activity.

 

Aerobic exercise: When cleared, the football player does aerobic work, balance training, stretching, and other work while being monitored.

 

Football-specific exercise: Gradually, the player can begin exercises and drills geared specifically to the game. They can do noncontact practice drills with the team for 30 minutes a day in this phase.

 

Club-based noncontact drills: While keeping up with aerobic and other kinds of football-specific exercises, players can begin taking part in noncontact activities like throwing, catching, and running. By this phase, the player needs to have had neurocognitive balance testing.

 

Full football activity/clearance: In order to return to full-contact practice and play, the player must have a complete evaluation both by the team’s physician and an independent neurological consultant (a doctor assigned by the league).

 

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I’ve seen players miss 2-3 days and some 2-3 weeks. 

Whatev. Officially, he had the creative “upper back injury”. He was therefore allowed to practice. We’ll see how the investigation goes.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't think that's right.  Bates was limited yesterday and he is in the protocol.  I'm sure limited is a very broad term but he was still practicing. 

 

Practicing is part of the protocol.  It means he was in stage 4

[aristocrat]

Has Tua said anything about sunday's hit? He had to have had a press conference before last night right?  I'm assuming someone had to ask him about and he said no concussion right?

[GaryPinC]

35 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

That is what the evaluation is all about - they take it out of the players hands.

 

If they fail the cognitive testing they enter the protocol and can not return.

 

Therefore as Bart Scott stated - many players cheat on the off season baseline testing to help if something happens during the season.

 

For the protocol to work it’s best - it takes the players being honest, both during the game and in baseline testing.

 

If players are going to lie and cheat - the protocols are going to fail and you get exactly what happened with Tua - a guy that should never had returned nor played Thursday, but was cleared for both and will probably be cleared by next Sunday so as not to miss a game.

 

 

All great points.  I definitely think Tua played a role in hiding his concussion by blaming it on his back

 

But you cannot absolve at a minimum the training/medical staff.  No way should he have been cleared to go back in so soon after, regardless of what he was blaming.  I don't know the details of the NFL rules but there's the damage from the concussion and there's post-concussion syndrome which is delayed effects.

 

I've seen kids/people who've sustained concussions and seem fine initially only to have neurological and coordination symptoms set in 15 minutes to hours later.

 

To keep it simple, I have no confidence that Miami's staff had Tua's health in mind because of how rapidly he came back.  I doubt his eye's/pupil and motor coordination was re-evaluated at halftime.  Probably just passed the baseline test.

[Warcodered]

35 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

Damn, good ol' Wade has no chill:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/wade-phillips-ripped-for-insensitive-tua-tagovailoa-tweet/ar-AA12q0Eq?cvid=74800ab16eaf422b831dd854d5b9e0cd

 

"Very poor decision and ability to avoid the rush--no wonder he has been hurt"

Not a nice thing to say about a guy after he gets hurt like that, but he's not exactly wrong.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Whatev. Officially, he had the creative “upper back injury”. He was therefore allowed to practice. We’ll see how the investigation goes.

I was just saying that the NFL clearly doesn’t follow a set plan. 

[RocCityRoller]

29 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don’t disagree. However, a doctor should be able to see Tua stumble and fall, right after the back of his head smacking off the turf, and call BS.

 

 

 

 

All 'doctors' who seem more qualified than the independent neurological expert at Sunday's game, and Miami's Medical staff that pushed the 'back injury' narrative and let him play on a short week.

 

The medical field in general has become an incompetent laughing stock

[GaryPinC]

4 hours ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

I rewatched the film of him after Sunday's concussion.  Keep in mind Tua may believe in hiding any concussion symptoms.  

 

When I think of a back injury, I think of weird posture, most often displayed in the positioning of the shoulders and muscular tension in the upper body.  Arched back, grabbing at of jerking your posture to alleviate the pain, etc.

 

There's none of that displayed, his shoulders and upper body are well aligned and overall relaxed.  The only thing he does is shake his head and briefly grabs at is his head and chin strap.  After his fall and stumbling, the trainer comes over and the first thing he appears to do is maybe grab at his back (which is why I think Tua is BSing) but he may have also just been trying to hold Tua up.

[stevewin]

5 hours ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

I've had that back pain - and I've reached for my back, and cried out in pain.  When you had that back pain - did you just shake your head and wobble around?  I've never had or seen anyone who has intense back pain just stumble like a drunk person and shake their head and not at all reach for their back or cry out in pain.

 

There comes a point where "proof" can be replaced by common sense.  If you watch the tape and think that him shaking his head, wobbling and stumbling like someone who was knocked senseless is from back pain then I don't know what to tell you.  It simply is not plausible.  Common sense,

[Warcodered]

 

 

Lot of players/former players seem upset about this.

[Big Turk]

54 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don’t disagree. However, a doctor should be able to see Tua stumble and fall, right after the back of his head smacking off the turf, and call BS.

 

And see him put both hands up to his head like you see almost every time the back of a player's helmet hits the turf and they have a concussion

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Lot of players/former players seem upset about this.

 

Because they know he had a concussion regardless of what was claimed. They aren't dumb...they know what goes on in locker rooms and how doctors will bend to the will of the team to allow players to play when they know they probably shouldn't.

 

Hearing Tomlin talk about relationships and caring about his players is almost like a twin with McDermott who basically is the same way...they played together in college and they both put a high priority on doing things the right way and doing right by their players.  It's no wonder they are respected and revered by their players and former players.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Big Turk

[Warcodered]

 

[PetermansRedemption]

Still a joke. Independent neurologist my ass. If you’re paid by the NFL, you aren’t independent. To me, an independent neurologist would be the guy working at Buffalo General (as a local example) who is billing the players insurance and not at all being paid by the NFL. 
 

These independent doctors are about as independent as the “experts” that defense attorneys and prosecutors hire to push their narratives in a case. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by PetermansRedemption

[freddyjj]

41 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

How does someone get through all 5 stages of protocol after a mandatory rest period in 3 days? Especially for an away game.

 

The NFL’s return-to-play protocol features five, rather than six, steps:5

 

Symptom limited activity: Following a period of rest, the athlete gradually reintroduces light physical activity.

 

Aerobic exercise: When cleared, the football player does aerobic work, balance training, stretching, and other work while being monitored.

 

Football-specific exercise: Gradually, the player can begin exercises and drills geared specifically to the game. They can do noncontact practice drills with the team for 30 minutes a day in this phase.

 

Club-based noncontact drills: While keeping up with aerobic and other kinds of football-specific exercises, players can begin taking part in noncontact activities like throwing, catching, and running. By this phase, the player needs to have had neurocognitive balance testing.

 

Full football activity/clearance: In order to return to full-contact practice and play, the player must have a complete evaluation both by the team’s physician and an independent neurological consultant (a doctor assigned by the league).

 

Scott - my take is he never was evaluated for a concussion and therefore avoided entering the league's concussion protocol altogether.  

 

As Miami officials (at home btw) within minutes of the Sunday injury informed the sidelines and media that Tua was being evaluated for a "head injury" and then bypassed all concussion protocols with the back injury nonsense, they may be facing some serious consequences.

 

Hope the young man recovers without incidence.  

[YoloinOhio]