NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, wjag said:

So YOLO, reading the title, what's a "concession" protocol?  Is that when he decides to leave the game?  🙂 

 

or should it be a "confession protocol" where he admits he was concussed? 🙂 

For Miami, it's the confetti protocol. Nothing to see here, let's party!

[nucci]

13 minutes ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

Come on. I had a disk replaced in my lower spine . I was never like Tua was on Sunday

[Heavy Kevi]

10 minutes ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

 

Because he was visibly concussed. Back injuries don't cause that disorientation.

 

People who are/were part of fight sports or even fans of fight sports can tell you on the spot it was a concussion. Don't need a doctor to tell me that.

 

Tua was clearly concussed to a casual observer Sunday and somehow never went through protocol, and then had another brain injury 4 days later. That's also why the second was so much worse- it's literally why they have protocols, because re-inury to the brain shortly after a first concussion are the real danger.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

Honestly, the Phins are looking like a classless and clueless organization following Tua's second concussion in 4 days.  They mortgaged their season to win their Super Bowl in Week 3.  Be thankful we have McD and Beane who will rest their injured even knowing it might result in a loss.   

 

That being said, I hope Tua has a speedy recovery and makes his way back on the field this year barring any set backs.  Personal health first.  He's got a long life yet ahead of him, don't jeopardize that for the sake of the Dolphins brass who clearly do not consider his long term health a priority.

[NEBranch]

20 minutes ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

If my back is causing me debilitating pain, I have a tendency to grab my back as an initial reaction.  There was none of that on Sunday.  Tua reached for his helmet.

[zow2]

Some on social media are saying McDaniel should be fired for playing Tua last night.  I'm not ready to go there.  The team doctors and independent evaluator(s) are supposed to check the guys out and clear the players to play again.  How is a head coach supposed to know if a guy is medically ready to play?  He is not a doctor?

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Some on social media are saying McDaniel should be fired for playing Tua last night.  I'm not ready to go there.  The team doctors and independent evaluator(s) are supposed to check the guys out and clear the players to play again.  How is a head coach supposed to know if a guy is medically ready to play?  He is not a doctor?

if he is fired… what’s Brian Flores up to these days?

[The Red King]

The Dolphins mortgaged Tua's health to get that "W" against us.  They pressed their luck trying to get the same against the Bengals figuring they had they the long rest before the next game for him to recover, but paid the price this time.  Problem is, they were potentially wagering Tua's long-term health.  No game is worth that.

[Heavy Kevi]

Just now, zow2 said:

Some on social media are saying McDaniel should be fired for playing Tua last night.  I'm not ready to go there.  The team doctors and independent evaluator(s) are supposed to check the guys out and clear the players to play again.  How is a head coach supposed to know if a guy is medically ready to play?  He is not a doctor?

 

Because it's obvious he was concussed, and the only way he gets back into the Bills game was if he was never even evaluated for a concussion.

 

They lied about the injury to get him back in the Bills game and to cover their butts this week leading up to the Bengals game.

 

But I'm not calling for McDaniels to be fired. I do understand though it's the coaches and ultimately the NFL who's responsible to save these players from themselves in situations like this.

[Golden*Wheels]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

My question is, even if Tua was not allowed to go back in the Bills game would that change what happened to him last night?

If he was "in the protocol" and removed for a concussion, I do wonder if they'd have let him play on a short week. Hard to say. Clearly NFL and some teams sometimes just...do whatever they want.

[Beast]

5 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

If he was "in the protocol" and removed for a concussion, I do wonder if they'd have let him play on a short week. Hard to say. Clearly NFL and some teams sometimes just...do whatever they want.

Right. That’s exactly what I’m getting at. He still may have played. He also may not have. 
 

Maybe this will force a mandatory out for at least a game? I don’t know. I guess it still boils down to his original prognosis against the Bills. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Beast

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

If he was "in the protocol" and removed for a concussion, I do wonder if they'd have let him play on a short week. Hard to say. Clearly NFL and some teams sometimes just...do whatever they want.

Yeah, they get evaluated each day if I remember correctly. If they fail, they have to wait 48 hours before being tested again. If they pass, they're good to go right away. I assume he would've been passed the first day.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Ayjent said:

The NFL has never been one to pursue accountability beyond the players until it is undeniably blatant and even then it is iffy it involves the organization rather than specific actors.  I love football but the NFL really does allow some horrible crap to occur without much accountability.  If the protocol is easy to navigate around then it’s all for optics with no meaning which sounds about right, bc that’s just how insincere most measures to protect or promote employee well being are within organizations.  And don’t get me wrong there is personal accountability of Tua here too, but people dedicated to their craft and their colleagues/teammates are conditioned to do what’s best for the team, especially in sports.  
 

As far as NFLPA getting anywhere - hard to say and depends on several factors, including how the Dolphins and NFL handle this moving forward.  They are doing what they can by exerting pressure exploring legal avenues, pursing investigations and making public comments, but they are up against super connected Billionaires who are pretty much shielded from accountability and really own the league - not exactly an easy task. These players make good money but it’s chump change to these owners and the well paid ones are pretty reluctant to speak out. 

I’m always wary of people who say “trust me” or “I’m going to be straight with you…”.  It’s pretty much signaling that your BS meter should going off. 

 

That may or may not be true - what we know is the NFL has put in place a consistent and verifiable protocol to follow and took it out of the hands of team doctors that may have some stake in the game and brought in - independent teams to review and determine the outcomes.

 

If the players - find loop holes that allow them to clear the protocol faster - that is not on the NFL for failing the players - that is on the players and the NLFPA.
 

The NFL wants consistency and to show they are following the designed and agreed to protocols - that is their goal.  The issue is a concussion is a very individual injury and the best/quick way to identify it is the cognitive tests.  If as has been stated - Tua passed those cognitive tests - what grounds are there set up for someone to say - “No, you can’t play” - you may have had a concussion, but all testing shows you are fine.

 

I would have been fine if the “wobbly legs” he displayed was enough to automatically put them in the full protocol, but that is not the agreed to rule and unless either Tua or the independent doctor comes forward and says something was not done according to protocol or Tua says I didn’t feel comfortable- the NFLPA has nothing to stand on.

 

So far all we have heard is that Tua was evaluated (no timing on how quickly after the initial hit) and that he passed the cognitive tests that cleared him from the protocol and at that time the team decided it was less a head injury and more of a back issue (probably BS, but we are not there and the only thing he needed to do to return was pass his cognitive test).

 

The worst part - is a good coach and training staff - never lets him back out against Buffalo - just to protect the player from himself and then re-evaluates throughout the week and most likely gives him another week to recover, but the Dolphins and Tua did themselves a disservice because he wanted to play and they want to win.

[Orlando Tim]

Assuming NFL uses the same protocol as most other organizations the protocol, if it run smoothly with no set backs, takes 6 days. Tua would not have been on field yesterday if he was ruled concussed Sunday. NFL might have own rules but I expect they use same.

[UKBillFan]

50 minutes ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

Because even the Dolphins originally said it was a head injury?

[BuffaloRebound]

19 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Some on social media are saying McDaniel should be fired for playing Tua last night.  I'm not ready to go there.  The team doctors and independent evaluator(s) are supposed to check the guys out and clear the players to play again.  How is a head coach supposed to know if a guy is medically ready to play?  He is not a doctor?

Because NFL is a brotherhood or likes to think of itself as one.  These coaches ask a lot out of their players and these players put their health on the line every day.   The least a coach can do is look out for their players regardless of the protocol.  Use their own eyes.  

[BillsFanNC]

Great analysis by a sports MD.

 

I hope Tua is OK. Very upsetting to watch.

 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

59 minutes ago, MJS said:

One of the former players in the post-game said he got a concussion and was able to BS his way through the protocol and get back on the field. Another teammate pulled him out and told the coaches he wasn't right and shouldn't be playing.

 

If you can BS your way through the protocol, obviously it is not good enough. They need to determine without any doubt that they do not have a concussion. Scan their brain or something. There has to be more concrete ways of determining this. What the player says or does shouldn't be a factor. Take it out of their hands.

 

It is difficult - players have repeated stated they have purposely lowered their baseline cognitive testing to help them clear protocol faster.

 

That is not really on the NFL - the protocol will work if players follow the protocol correctly and answer the questions honestly, but the players want to play - so they have found ways to game the system.

 

The issue is there are minor plays and major plays that could lead to concussions - I am not sure every time a guy gets a hand upside the head - they want to get a brain scan.  Additionally the time and equipment to take and read a brain scan would be very difficult in a football stadium - so then are you pulling and sending these players to the hospital mid game for scans.

 

The cognitive testing will work fine - if players take the baseline testing seriously and the protocol is followed, but if players decide to game the system to help them return there is little the NFL can do on their own - that is on the NFLPA for not instructing the players to take the baseline testing seriously and for asking for more baseline testing levels.

 

Players all of the time have to have their helmets taking away to keep them from returning during games with injuries and in this case the Dolphins and Tua did themselves a disservice as he should never have been cleared Sunday and the protocol should have kept him out of the Thursday game, but whatever he did for baseline cognitive testing - Tua was able to repeat that and pass the cognitive testing and therefore there was nothing the NFL could do to stop him - he passed the agreed to required testing to get back.

 

 

[Mango]

49 minutes ago, nucci said:

Come on. I had a disk replaced in my lower spine . I was never like Tua was on Sunday

I have 3 herniations in my lumbar, 2 in my cervical, and spinal stenosis. 
 

That isn’t the way people walk when having disc issues. 

[YoloinOhio]