‘It’s Over!‘: LeSean McCoy Rips Patriots Head Coach

[CircleTheWagons99]

But Bill has Mac MVP Jones now…..

[Warcodered]

 

[Marvin]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:00 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is... in the NFL if you go 47% with average to bad Quarterbacking that is actually pretty decent as a coach. Bill Walsh had a win percentage of 41% without Joe Montana. Just for comparison sake. When you look at most of the top coaches in NFL history you find they had great Quarterbacking. It's why I think at times guys like Joe Gibbs get unfairly overlooked. It's why I say John Harbaugh is an elite coach. Because he has won a Superbowl and made the playoffs 9 times in 14 years without ever having great or elite Quarterback play. that is really hard to do in this league. 

 

Is Belichick the same coach without Brady? Hell no. But I think people are looking at that win % without him the wrong way around. It isn't proof Belichick is bad. It is proof that he is pretty good. Just to be championship great he needs great Quarterback play. Nothing new there. 

This is a great historical perspective.

[BananaB]

Brady didn’t really step on the field and dominate. The first few Superbowls were more Bill then Brady.    Brady was huge part later as he improved and the game evolved but in the early 2000s those Pats teams were built on D and running the ball. Brady was a good compliment to that but he couldn’t carry the team. If he played anywhere else he probably isn’t being called the goat right now. 

[Mr. WEO]

On 9/16/2022 at 5:00 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is... in the NFL if you go 47% with average to bad Quarterbacking that is actually pretty decent as a coach. Bill Walsh had a win percentage of 41% without Joe Montana. Just for comparison sake. When you look at most of the top coaches in NFL history you find they had great Quarterbacking. It's why I think at times guys like Joe Gibbs get unfairly overlooked. It's why I say John Harbaugh is an elite coach. Because he has won a Superbowl and made the playoffs 9 times in 14 years without ever having great or elite Quarterback play. that is really hard to do in this league. 

 

Is Belichick the same coach without Brady? Hell no. But I think people are looking at that win % without him the wrong way around. It isn't proof Belichick is bad. It is proof that he is pretty good. Just to be championship great he needs great Quarterback play. Nothing new there. 

 

An adult has entered the room....

[MafiaMio]

17 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'll preface by saying everyone knows how good Brady is, but that Tampa team was LOADED on both sides of the ball.  

 

Jameis had just come off of a 5,000 yard season with the same squad, minus Gronk, Fournette and Antonio Brown.  

Lol lots of "loaded" teams don't make super bowls year after year. Super Bowls are extremely hard to win. And frankly they aren't won just by being "loaded". 

The Bills are also "loaded" right now. If we win the Super Bowl does that discredit Josh Allen because his team was loaded? Bet you'd be the first one defending him when the haters come. Same goes with any qb, including Brady.

Edited September 17, 2022 by MafiaMio

[Solomon Grundy]

Spoken like a former Bills player. Hopefully Bills bring Shady back to Lead the Charge!! 

[Wayne Arnold]

Former players are just as prone to hyperbole as fans are.

 

It's been one week. Let's see Belichick have a losing record this season and then we can talk about it being over and that he's not the greatest.

 

Even if you think Brady is the greatest NFL player ever - he's not heads-and-shoulders better than the next best.

 

No matter how great Brady is, you don't see a 19 year dominance like we saw with the Patriots from 2001-2019 if their head coach is nothing more than "a good coach."

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Former players are just as prone to hyperbole as fans are.

 

It's been one week. Let's see Belichick have a losing record this season and then we can talk about it being over and that he's not the greatest.

 

Even if you think Brady is the greatest NFL player ever - he's not heads-and-shoulders better than the next best.

 

No matter how great Brady is, you don't see a 19 year dominance like we saw with the Patriots from 2001-2019 if their head coach is nothing more than "a good coach."

 

He just had a losing record two seasons ago.  I could be wrong but I dont think anyone is saying Belichick is a bad coach.

[Thurman#1]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:46 AM, inaugural balls said:

So is coaching overrated?

 

 

Hell, yeah. 

 

Coaching is very important, but not as important as having a great roster and in particular a great QB.

 

Being a crappy coach is capable of torpedoing even a great lineup, though. And while Belichick may not necessarily be the best of all time, he's one of a small group with a possible claim to that title. 

[wppete]

[Chicken Boo]

13 hours ago, MafiaMio said:

Lol lots of "loaded" teams don't make super bowls year after year. Super Bowls are extremely hard to win. And frankly they aren't won just by being "loaded". 

The Bills are also "loaded" right now. If we win the Super Bowl does that discredit Josh Allen because his team was loaded? Bet you'd be the first one defending him when the haters come. Same goes with any qb, including Brady.

 

There's a massive difference between just having a "loaded team" and having a "loaded team with the greatest QB of all time" who already has 6 Super Bowl rings.  

 

This is Brady we're talking about.  He's done more with less for much of his career.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Matt_In_NH]

14 hours ago, BananaB said:

Brady didn’t really step on the field and dominate. The first few Superbowls were more Bill then Brady.    Brady was huge part later as he improved and the game evolved but in the early 2000s those Pats teams were built on D and running the ball. Brady was a good compliment to that but he couldn’t carry the team. If he played anywhere else he probably isn’t being called the goat right now. 

Agree.  While it’s true Brady had a lot to do with 8 Super Bowls and 5 wins, so did BB and the rest of the organization.  It takes the coach/organization AND the qb.   At this point the game has passed him by to a degree, he is not what he once was and he does not have the QB.  

[Punching Bag]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:20 AM, Scott7975 said:

I know he probably wanted to prove something but he had nothing to prove.

 

On 9/17/2022 at 10:29 AM, clayboy54 said:

Like so many coaches, he probably thought success was based on scheme and not players. In some regard, the Pats success with only a single long-term superstar was largely based on BB’s scheme. However, as in most of the coaches cases, if you don’t have the horses, you’ll lose the race.

 

…at the end of the day, coaches will eventually outsmart themselves.

 

On 9/17/2022 at 10:31 AM, Doc said:

Did he have to prove anything?  No.  Did he want to show everyone that it was him and not Brady?  Definitely.  Another losing season and he'll have had just 4 winning seasons without him and 6 losing ones.

 

He has not proved he could not win without the cheating and Director of Spying, (I am inclined to believe he still does the job but remotely without title.  I would love to be Kraft / Pat(hetic)s IRS auditor.)  He cannot prove it since he cannot coach without what he is addicted to.

[Ghost_002!]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:29 AM, clayboy54 said:

Like so many coaches, he probably thought success was based on scheme and not players. In some regard, the Pats success with only a single long-term superstar was largely based on BB’s scheme. However, as in most of the coaches cases, if you don’t have the horses, you’ll lose the race.

 

…at the end of the day, coaches will eventually outsmart themselves.

 

 

Well said.

[Ghost_002!]

On 9/17/2022 at 6:41 PM, MafiaMio said:

Lol lots of "loaded" teams don't make super bowls year after year. Super Bowls are extremely hard to win. And frankly they aren't won just by being "loaded". 

The Bills are also "loaded" right now. If we win the Super Bowl does that discredit Josh Allen because his team was loaded? Bet you'd be the first one defending him when the haters come. Same goes with any qb, including Brady.

 

 

The point was Brady didn't go to the lions and win a SB for all the "Oh it was Brady not bb" crowd. He went to a team that was talented enough on both side of the ball, they just needed a QB to not turnover the ball.

 

Brady wasn't that hot in his last SB w N.E. and he wasn't too hot in the NFC championship game either. He benefitted just as BB benefitted. That's typical how it goes in football but some fans to silly to admit that.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[Warcodered]

Every time I see this thread I can't help but think.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

The point was Brady didn't go to the lions and win a SB for all the "Oh it was Brady not bb" crowd. He went to a team that was talented enough on both side of the ball, they just needed a QB to not turnover the ball.

 

Brady wasn't that hot in his last SB w N.E. and he wasn't too hot in the NFC championship game either. He benefitted just as BB benefitted. That's typical how it goes in football but some fans to silly to admit that.

So what you're saying is we should blame the GM.

[KDIGGZ]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

The point was Brady didn't go to the lions and win a SB for all the "Oh it was Brady not bb" crowd. He went to a team that was talented enough on both side of the ball, they just needed a QB to not turnover the ball.

 

Brady wasn't that hot in his last SB w N.E. and he wasn't too hot in the NFC championship game either. He benefitted just as BB benefitted. That's typical how it goes in football but some fans to silly to admit that.

He went to a team that didn't even make the playoffs and instantly made them super bowl champs. And meanwhile Pats lost Brady and went from perennial Super Bowl contender to probably the worst team in the AFC east 

[Ghost_002!]

22 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

He went to a team that didn't even make the playoffs and instantly made them super bowl champs. And meanwhile Pats lost Brady and went from perennial Super Bowl contender to probably the worst team in the AFC east 

 

They didn't make the playoffs cause their QB the year before threw 20 ints.

 

[Jeffbigalls]

On 9/16/2022 at 8:51 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

If Brady never takes over the Patriots never have a dynasty. That much is unquestionably true. But Belichick's record without Brady proves he can coach, rather than proving the opposite. 

No he wasn't lol, he took over a patriots team 15+ million over the cap with only 35 guys signed to the active roster.  And the early years i.e the first 3 super bowls where because the Patriots had some of the best defensive units the league has seen.