Josh vs. Herbert and Mahomes…

[YattaOkasan]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He isn't doing more with less this year. Give me the Bills offensive personnel over KC's. 

yeah thats fair but we also dont have enough data to know how well they are performing yet this year.  So the "more with less" (thats probably imprecise on my part even) is in regards to past years and why Josh doesnt have the same accolades.  

[billsrul120]

37 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is why this is stupid. Because I don’t want to throw any shade at Josh who is amazing. But Mahomes had better passing numbers than Allen last year and is currently at 7 tds to 0 ints this year. Not really sure how anyone can say Allen is definitively better at this point.

 

but allen and Mahomes are great. Along with with Rodgers and plastic face Brady. I think Herbert is in a class with Burrow. I will say that I’m so happy the fins have Tua and the pats have Max because last night (and Josh) showed plays they have no chance of making.

Well, you’re a Bills fan haha. Allen could easily leap him this year but in this silly hypothetical, he’s not there yet (and Herbert isn’t close). 

Clearly bait but you got me.  Allen has played 1 game and put up 4 total TDs so we'll see TDs after Monday.  Of the two picks, Allen literally had 1 go off a receivers hands and the other one was a great play by the db.  I don't remember another bad throw by Allen on Thursday but maybe you do.  Mahomes threw a worse ball right to Samuel last night handled it about as well as someone who never saw a football before.

 

How could anyone say Allen is better at this point?  They actually watch the games.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

18 hours ago, Dopey said:

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

Wait.  You left out Tua.

[Success]

17 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Allen

Mahomes

 

significant drop

 

Herbert

 

So much this.  Allen & Mahomes are 1A and 1B.   

 

I love Herbert's game, and he has that competitive fire - but he's just not at the level of the other 2.  He can't quite put his team on his back like those guys.

 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah the weirdest discourse I heard in the offseason was that the Chiefs offense would somehow be better without Tyreek Hill on the field. If you tried to tell Chiefs fans there's no way that would happen, they would throw out Mahomes's record in games that Hill missed as if that alone ended the argument. Turns out going from arguably the most dynamic offensive talent in the game to a pair of mediocre WRs has a negative impact.

 

71 points in two games proves that the Chiefs offense has taken a hit?

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Billl said:

71 points in two games proves that the Chiefs offense has taken a hit?

 

Did you watch the game last night? Did you think that looked like the normal Chiefs offense of 2018-2021?

[Big Turk]

18 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I still think Patty Ice is ahead of Allen, but we are taking 2 elite QBs. 

 

Especially when you have 4 INTs erased by DBs dropping gifts twice, another erased by a phantom illegal contact penalty and another erased by offsetting penalties.

 

It's uncanny how often this happens with him and he ends up with a clean stat line.

[L Ron Burgundy]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe a little, but Allen has done sidearm throws before too.

Mahomes is just ridiculously good at it.  He can do it more accurately than anyone else.

[Your Brown Eye]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Especially when you have 4 INTs erased by DBs dropping gifts twice, another erased by a phantom illegal contact penalty and another erased by offsetting penalties.

 

It's uncanny how often this happens with him and he ends up with a clean stat line.

 

What is phantom about the DB getting to the WR early before the ball? They even showed an up close replay and is was pretty clear if we are talking about the same play. You can hate Mahomes as much as the next guy, but he underthrew the ball as he got hit and the commentator said that those penalties are a result of the underthrown ball ...but if you want to call it "phantom" go right ahead

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Wait.  You left out Tua.

Tua wasn't in his picking lane so he couldn't see him.

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Mahomes is just ridiculously good at it.  He can do it more accurately than anyone else.

 

Likely his baseball upbringing

30 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

 

What is phantom about the DB getting to the WR early before the ball? They even showed an up close replay and is was pretty clear if we are talking about the same play. You can hate Mahomes as much as the next guy, but he underthrew the ball as he got hit and the commentator said that those penalties are a result of the underthrown ball ...but if you want to call it "phantom" go right ahead

 

No, the one that got intercepted over the middle when Watson slipped and they showed the reverse angle and the DB never even touched him.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did you watch the game last night? Did you think that looked like the normal Chiefs offense of 2018-2021?

Yeah, I was there.  I watched the Chiefs, on three days rest, play a C- game against the best defensive line in football and win versus the team with the fourth best Super Bowl odds.  I suppose that Kansas City has set such a high standard for itself that they’re supposed to apologize for a monster win.  I’m not buying it, though.  In the closest thing you’re going to get to a rebuilding year, and with 7 rookies getting significant playing time, they look as good as any team in football.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yeah, I was there.  I watched the Chiefs, on three days rest, play a C- game against the best defensive line in football and win versus the team with the fourth best Super Bowl odds.  I suppose that Kansas City has set such a high standard for itself that they’re supposed to apologize for a monster win.  I’m not buying it, though.  In the closest thing you’re going to get to a rebuilding year, and with 7 rookies getting significant playing time, they look as good as any team in football.

 

Your offense scored 20 points, your WRs couldn't separate, and Mahomes forced several passes. I don't know what else to tell you. It's a worse offense without Tyreek Hill on the field.

[Buddo]

Not convinced by Herbert, at all. There's a lot there to like, but it's been a long time since I saw the sort of inane throw into triple coverage, that never even looked like it had a window, that Herbert threw against the Chiefs late on.

 

Thing is with that one, the football had some heat on it, yet there were still 3 defenders between the ball and the receiver, when it tried to arrive.

 

With strong armed QBs, sometimes you could say that there would be a chance that that throw could be made, a few times out of 10. I'm not sure there was any chance for that play to be successful, no matter how many times it was tried.

 

I really didn't like the throw away, just a couple of yards before the down marker. That reminded me of Orton sliding 2 yards away from a first down, when he had about 10 yards of space ahead of him.

 

Herbert could have got the first down by just slowing down and then sliding, and it was all very strange to me that he didn't.

 

It didn't make any real difference, as the next play was a good downfield completion, but in a game that was close, I thought it was pretty poor.

 

Where Herbert does have the arm, he isn't at the same level as Allen and Mahomes yet, as he doesn't read opposing defenses, anywhere near as well as they both do.

 

He's good enough already, that I think he will get there, but the extra experience tells atm. Extra experience on the Chiefs and Bills coaching staff also helps in that respect, imho.

[Behindenemylines]

21 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

It’s unfair if you’re comparing Allen to Herbert AND Mahomes. Obviously 2 is better than 1. 

Yes because JA17 is more than twice the man either one of the is.  Exactly unfair!

[Billever76]

4 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Mahomes lucked out on the first 'interception'; that was such a tick tack call. And the third interception attempt should have been held. Hopefully he's using his luck up in the regular season. Saying that, there's no doubt he's a phenomenal Quarterback.

 

Herbert was drafted two years after Josh - it was 2020 when Josh really took off so Herbert has time; at this point of his career I'd say he is ahead of Josh but whether he'll continue on the same trajectory is up for debate.

 

Three superb Quarterbacks... shame the other two are also in the AFC!

This season is Herbert's 3rd year playing...Herbert is 0-2 of making the playoffs..Allen had Buffalo in the playoffs his 2nd year starting....now was 2019 Bills roster better than 2021 chargers roster?..not a chance....if Herbert doesn't have a similar year as Allen's 2020 yr this season then I think it pretty much says allen>herbert

[BananaB]

Allen is better then both. He wasn’t as polished as either heading into the league and had to play with guys like Zay, KB and Foster early in his career which made his transition harder in my  opinion. Chiefs and Chargers had elite talent around their QBs when they stepped on the field. Jesus, Beas and Brown were an upgrade from the other meatheads but they were far from elite. Allen made those guys better then they actually were, it’s the reason neither are in the league right now.  Allen had a harder road then both and now he’s better. 

[Bimmer323i]

Yep here we go… the chargers lose last night and according to some sports casters now there a head of Buffalo as the best team in the afc… I just don’t get it… click bait I guess… through all the stats out the window and from just the eye test neither Mahomes or Herbert got ***** on Allen

[Bimmer323i]

5 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Man, some of you are acting like hated arrogant Patriot fans talking about Brady in years past. And without Allen SB's even...

 

Lets see how Monday night goes.

 

Did Herbert make a super bowl that we don’t know about

1 hour ago, Buddo said:

Not convinced by Herbert, at all. There's a lot there to like, but it's been a long time since I saw the sort of inane throw into triple coverage, that never even looked like it had a window, that Herbert threw against the Chiefs late on.

 

Thing is with that one, the football had some heat on it, yet there were still 3 defenders between the ball and the receiver, when it tried to arrive.

 

With strong armed QBs, sometimes you could say that there would be a chance that that throw could be made, a few times out of 10. I'm not sure there was any chance for that play to be successful, no matter how many times it was tried.

 

I really didn't like the throw away, just a couple of yards before the down marker. That reminded me of Orton sliding 2 yards away from a first down, when he had about 10 yards of space ahead of him.

 

Herbert could have got the first down by just slowing down and then sliding, and it was all very strange to me that he didn't.

 

It didn't make any real difference, as the next play was a good downfield completion, but in a game that was close, I thought it was pretty poor.

 

Where Herbert does have the arm, he isn't at the same level as Allen and Mahomes yet, as he doesn't read opposing defenses, anywhere near as well as they both do.

 

He's good enough already, that I think he will get there, but the extra experience tells atm. Extra experience on the Chiefs and Bills coaching staff also helps in that respect, imho.

Herbert’s ahead of Josh Allen don’t you know… just go ask that fat ***** Marcus Sprears

[Bimmer323i]

I don’t care it just made me sick to watch some of these sports shows today listening to them Talk about the chargers like there the best team in the league when they lost the ***** game….