Jamal Adams out for the season

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, Rampage said:

The Jets absolutely fleeced Seattle. This has got to be one of the Top 5 worst trades in NFL history. Two number 1s and 20 million per season? Yikes!

 

Herschel Walker to Vikings

Ricky Williams to NO for their entire draft class

Jerry Hughes to the Bills for Kelvin Sheppard

 

At least Adams was a stud before he got hurt... 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Manther said:

I thought it was a terrible trade for Seattle at the time.  Two firsts for any non QB usually isn't a good deal and he wanted to be paid as the highest defensive player in the league (I think) and Adams is only an in the box safety.  My friend is from Seattle, he was not happy at the time and been fairly angry about it ever since.  It was quite obvious Seattle were going to have to let some of their homegrown players go because they could pay anyone and Russell Wilson had a big contract and many defensive players on their team did too.

 

It really was the beginning of the end for the Hawks!

The beginning of the end wasn't dictated by the Adams trade. That wouldn't happen until Wilson's drama the following season.

At the time Schneider had a good-not-great team, but still had Russel Wilson playing at a Pro Bowl level and a lot of young talent in an NFC without. Chris Carson was a rising star along with DK Metcalf, and Tyler Locket was rising as well. They had some aging but strong talent on the defensive side of the ball in their front 7 and had promising Quandre Diggs coming off his first Pro Bowl nod.

Schneider and the Hawks had every reason to believe they could compete, and so trading future capital for one of the best young defensive talents in the game was probably seen as a worthwhile gamble to maximize their chance of of taking advantage of a window provided by a combination of veteran leadership, young talent and an a perennial PB QB. Was the cost high? For sure. Was it too high? Maybe so, but the Jets had the leverage.

Early returns were pretty positive for the Seahawks. Adams had 9.5 sacks and they went 12-4 and lost in the playoffs. Had they won it all, or even advanced a bit further, I'm not sure that the trade is looked at so negatively.

Of course 2020 saw Wilson and the hawks fall apart and the writing was on the wall that the window was over and Wilson was all but gone. Adams getting hurt in 2021 and again now makes it really easy to start casting blame, but at the time I'm not sure you can fault a GM for adding a massive piece to their defensive to combine with an offense that looked like it had everything it needed.

9 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

It was an awful trade when they made it. He was a very limited player who gets confused when the ball is in the air. Given that it's been a passing league.. trading 2 1sts for safety that is really an undersized linebacker was stupid. Not to mention he made it very clear he wanted a new blockbuster contract.

 

Seahawks are a better team with him off the field. So giving him an insane contract to try to make the trade not look so bad was doubling down and could very well be a big part of the current regime in Seattle not being current for long. 

He had 9.5 sacks for Seattle his first year - the same amount Von Miller had last year.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

 

Terrible take.

 

This was an absolutely terrible trade when it happened.

 

Jamal Adams - a box safety - for even 1 1st round pick is a fleecing, but Seattle gave up 2 and extra picks.  Terrible.

 

In retrospect- the trade has only gotten worse as Seattle has watched Adams not live up to the hype, repeatedly get injured, and then way overpayed for a guy that can no longer cover and makes no plays.

 

There is nothing Seattle can say or do to make this look better - they made one of the worst trades ever and then have watched as it gets worse and worse each year.

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Terrible take.

 

This was an absolutely terrible trade when it happened.

 

Jamal Adams - a box safety - for even 1 1st round pick is a fleecing, but Seattle gave up 2 and extra picks.  Terrible.

 

In retrospect- the trade has only gotten worse as Seattle has watched Adams not live up to the hype, repeatedly get injured, and then way overpayed for a guy that can no longer cover and makes no plays.

 

There is nothing Seattle can say or do to make this look better - they made one of the worst trades ever and then have watched as it gets worse and worse each year.

 

 

Is terrible to judge decisions based on process and probability? Interesting.

See my above response to Rampage about the lottery.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

Perhaps, however this move was patently stupid from inception, it’s hard to imagine it would actually have turned out worse than that.  

[Mr. WEO]

16 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

The beginning of the end wasn't dictated by the Adams trade. That wouldn't happen until Wilson's drama the following season.

At the time Schneider had a good-not-great team, but still had Russel Wilson playing at a Pro Bowl level and a lot of young talent in an NFC without. Chris Carson was a rising star along with DK Metcalf, and Tyler Locket was rising as well. They had some aging but strong talent on the defensive side of the ball in their front 7 and had promising Quandre Diggs coming off his first Pro Bowl nod.

Schneider and the Hawks had every reason to believe they could compete, and so trading future capital for one of the best young defensive talents in the game was probably seen as a worthwhile gamble to maximize their chance of of taking advantage of a window provided by a combination of veteran leadership, young talent and an a perennial PB QB. Was the cost high? For sure. Was it too high? Maybe so, but the Jets had the leverage.

Early returns were pretty positive for the Seahawks. Adams had 9.5 sacks and they went 12-4 and lost in the playoffs. Had they won it all, or even advanced a bit further, I'm not sure that the trade is looked at so negatively.

Of course 2020 saw Wilson and the hawks fall apart and the writing was on the wall that the window was over and Wilson was all but gone. Adams getting hurt in 2021 and again now makes it really easy to start casting blame, but at the time I'm not sure you can fault a GM for adding a massive piece to their defensive to combine with an offense that looked like it had everything it needed.

He had 9.5 sacks for Seattle his first year - the same amount Von Miller had last year.

 

The Seahawks were shopping Wilson 2 seasons before they blew 2 1sts on a safety (lol).

 

So, no.  

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The Seahawks were shopping Wilson 2 seasons before they blew 2 1sts on a safety (lol).

 

So, no.  

Draft picks are overrated, always have been. Given the rate at which first round picks bust, how long they take to develop, and how expensive they are to maintain, I expect to see the Rams style of 0 Day 1 picks to become the new 4th down. When you can pay a pick and get guaranteed value in return, it's dumb not to.

Was Adams worth the 2nd first? Probably not, but that's a debate on price, not on the principle of the move.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The first in 2021 was Alijah Vera-Tucker.  They used the extra 3rd rounder (Plus their own 3rd rounder) to move up for him.  A lot to give up for a guard and he doesn't seem to be a very good guard at that.  Vikings drafted Darrisaw, Mond (who they released), and Wyatt Davis (who they released).  New regime clearly didn't see 3rd round value in those guys.  

 

Obviously Garrett Wilson is a rookie so who knows.  He's both fast and quick, but needs refinement (what rookie WR doesn't).  He should be the one to provide the Jets a "win" on this trade.  

Adams is who everyone thought - a primarily box safety who can tackle well but gets beat in coverage and doesn't have very good coverage instincts.  They used him a bit as a blitzer to some success.  

 

**WILDCARD**

The 4th rounder that the Seahawks got was Coby Bryant, and he appears to be a good fit for that defense and probably starts for them next year.  To me it would be hilarious and ironic if the throw in pick became the best player in the entire deal so that's what I'm rooting for 🙂

That is what really makes the draft such a crapshoot Vera Tucker was highly regarded that year at guard

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Draft picks are overrated, always have been. Given the rate at which first round picks bust, how long they take to develop, and how expensive they are to maintain, I expect to see the Rams style of 0 Day 1 picks to become the new 4th down. When you can pay a pick and get guaranteed value in return, it's dumb not to.

Was Adams worth the 2nd first? Probably not, but that's a debate on price, not on the principle of the move.

 

In 4 years, Khalil Mack (arguably a better impact player than Adams) has been traded for 2 1sts, a 6th and a 3rd and then a 2nd and a 6th to get him on his 3rd team in 9 seasons.  He's added little value to the success of his 1st two teams. 

 

Expensive to maintain?  Adams has cost 2 teams 3 1st round picks---but Jests only paid him 18 million because...well he was on a cheap rookie contract.  The Seahawks will pay him over 3 times that---yet their D isn't much better than it was ij the years before he got there. 

 

The Rams traded a 2nd and a 3rd  for Von Miller (an actual game changer) for a 2nd and a 3rd, cashed in for a SB, then let him walk.  

[MJS]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

Is there another way to judge actions? It was a dumb trade at the time and is still dumb today.

Edited September 16, 2022 by MJS

[buffaloboyinATL]

Wow! 

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Rampage said:

The Jets absolutely fleeced Seattle. This has got to be one of the Top 5 worst trades in NFL history. Two number 1s and 20 million per season? Yikes!

 

I hear you - but have Jets done with all that fleece?

[CoudyBills]

5 hours ago, Greg S said:

(4) Ian Rapoport on Twitter: "Sources: #Seahawks star S Jamal Adams will have season-ending surgery to repair his torn quad tendon suffered against the #Broncos, his 2022 over as he’s headed to IR. Adams is still talking to doctors about the timing of the procedure, as well as who performs it. https://t.co/z6b7K8iCZx" / Twitter

A net positive as long as the replacement is at least as good as a parking cone.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Is there another way to judge actions? It was a dumb trade at the time and is still dumb today.

Yes. I already answered this twice in this thread. Process and probability.

 

E.g. Spending your entire paycheck playing the lottery isn't a good decision even if you win.

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

This is why hospitals should do away with post-mortems. Nothing could ever possibly be learned. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Chaos

[BullBuchanan]

20 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is why hospitals should do away with post-mortems. Nothing could ever possibly be learned. 

I run post mortems in my line of work too. They are done to understand what may have failed in the process to end in the result that occured. They can and do end in conclusions that have no changes in the existing process if it's determined that everything was done in the best possible way, but the result was still unfavorable.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. It's a perfect example of valuing process.

Edited September 16, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[BillsBytheBay]

12 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

What?  How?  Literally makes no sense.  

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

OK, when should a trade be judged? Before it is made? Before it is proposed? Do let us know!

 

This should be good.  

[4merper4mer]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Judging actions in retrospect is stupid.

Should they be judged in anticipation instead?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Draft picks are overrated, always have been. Given the rate at which first round picks bust, how long they take to develop, and how expensive they are to maintain, I expect to see the Rams style of 0 Day 1 picks to become the new 4th down.

Sure, they won a SB last year, but how's that looking this year?