Thurman#1 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: I don’t really understand this point. Neither Cam nor Big Ben were effected by running the balls or hits taken outside the pocket. The injuries that did Cam in were the 2 major shoulder injuries that occurred in the pocket while passing. He was still fine running at the end - he lost all strength in his passing due to the shoulder injuries. Big Ben was never mobile, played 17 years, and passed more than ever at the end of his career. If Josh is able to play 17+ years and has his best passing seasons late in his career - that would not be a bad thing. The point is that both Cam and Big Ben were almost certainly worn down and physically effected by the cumulative effect of the pummelling they took. Cam much more so, but both of them really. We can't pretend that it was only hits that cause immediate serious injury that matter. It is very much not. Oh, and while Ben was never a smooth quick runner, he was much more mobile at the beginning of his career than the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: The point is that both Cam and Big Ben were almost certainly worn down and physically effected by the cumulative effect of the pummelling they took. Cam much more so, but both of them really. We can't pretend that it was only hits that cause immediate serious injury that matter. It is very much not. Oh, and while Ben was never a smooth quick runner, he was much more mobile at the beginning of his career than the end. Thing with Big Ben though was that he spent his off seasons impersonating John Daly. https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ben-roethlisbergers-offseason-fitness-program-consisted-of-playing-golf-and-drinking-beer-to-which-we-say-hell-yes/amp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 7 hours ago, DRsGhost said: Week one scepter goes to Josh. Fantastic! Love the "Heat" references too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 That reaction by Von is priceless. I'm sure he had no idea that was in Josh's repertoire. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Was an incredible run and stiff arm. He earned that award. That said, I remember during the game on that play just hoping he could get out of bounds before absorbing contact. I then saw his throwing hand come up to land that jab of a stiff arm and was hoping he wouldn’t hurt his hand on the dudes face mask or helmet. Then the maniac gets up laughing about it. Never going to completely coach that out of Josh. Part of what makes him special. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Gene1973 said: I hope defenders don't start going low on him. He’ll jump over them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: The point is that both Cam and Big Ben were almost certainly worn down and physically effected by the cumulative effect of the pummelling they took. Cam much more so, but both of them really. We can't pretend that it was only hits that cause immediate serious injury that matter. It is very much not. Oh, and while Ben was never a smooth quick runner, he was much more mobile at the beginning of his career than the end. I hear that - just not sure it is true or just a common misconception. Cam was still very active running at the end of his career. The running and his legs were fine and he was routinely still active in QB designed runs in NE and then Carolina again. What killed his career was the injuries to his shoulder and not the cumulative effect of his QB runs. Twice he had major shoulder injuries that occurred when he was passing in the pocket and got driven into the ground. Those injuries were not due to previous hits - they were one off random hits of a guy that was trying to make a play. The effects of those 2 hits and the required shoulder surgeries lead to the overall lack of strength in his arm that limited his passing ability and caused him to no longer be a viable QB. Even at the end he was still effective as a QB when he ran. In his last 2 years about 23 starts - he rushed the ball nearly 190 time - over 8 rushes a game. He just could no longer hit a pass beyond 10 yards. Big Ben as you said was never mobile, but the accumulation of hits he took were all in the pocket. His change was mostly age based - of course the hits might slow you down a touch, but age has a bigger effect and again after his first 10 years as he learned how to better attack defenses - his hits went down and his passing got better. His last couple of years - he learned to get rid of the ball quicker and had a higher completion percentage and some of his lowest Int % of his career. Josh could easily get hurt running the ball - it happens (less frequently to QBs than hits in the pocket), but it could happen. The thing is - the injuries that are more likely to shorten a career or impact a career are much more likely to occur in the pocket or as he rolls out - like in LV where he lands on a shoulder with no ability to brace. The Bills will work to lessen his rushes, but Josh in game mode whether 1st quarter or 4th up big - is going to try to do everything he can to make a play - so unless they are taking the ball out of his hand - I think we are still going to see Josh out in the open field bulling over guys - that is who he is. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 8 hours ago, DRsGhost said: Week one scepter goes to Josh. "HIS FINGER, IS IN HIS EARHOLE!!"" 😂 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Vader said: Fantastic! Love the "Heat" references too. That's from Kyle's new podcast where Josh is a weekly guest. He has a list of movies Josh has never seen and assigns him one to watch and then review the next week. Josh gave a thumbs up to Heat and has been assigned to watch National Lampoons Vacation this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 51 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I hear that - just not sure it is true or just a common misconception. Cam was still very active running at the end of his career. The running and his legs were fine and he was routinely still active in QB designed runs in NE and then Carolina again. What killed his career was the injuries to his shoulder and not the cumulative effect of his QB runs. Twice he had major shoulder injuries that occurred when he was passing in the pocket and got driven into the ground. Those injuries were not due to previous hits - they were one off random hits of a guy that was trying to make a play. The effects of those 2 hits and the required shoulder surgeries lead to the overall lack of strength in his arm that limited his passing ability and caused him to no longer be a viable QB. Even at the end he was still effective as a QB when he ran. In his last 2 years about 23 starts - he rushed the ball nearly 190 time - over 8 rushes a game. He just could no longer hit a pass beyond 10 yards. Big Ben as you said was never mobile, but the accumulation of hits he took were all in the pocket. His change was mostly age based - of course the hits might slow you down a touch, but age has a bigger effect and again after his first 10 years as he learned how to better attack defenses - his hits went down and his passing got better. His last couple of years - he learned to get rid of the ball quicker and had a higher completion percentage and some of his lowest Int % of his career. Josh could easily get hurt running the ball - it happens (less frequently to QBs than hits in the pocket), but it could happen. The thing is - the injuries that are more likely to shorten a career or impact a career are much more likely to occur in the pocket or as he rolls out - like in LV where he lands on a shoulder with no ability to brace. The Bills will work to lessen his rushes, but Josh in game mode whether 1st quarter or 4th up big - is going to try to do everything he can to make a play - so unless they are taking the ball out of his hand - I think we are still going to see Josh out in the open field bulling over guys - that is who he is. Ben was never mobile? Are you kidding?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Ben was never mobile? Are you kidding?! Tough to take down, sure. mobile, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: The injuries that did Cam in were the 2 major shoulder injuries that occurred in the pocket while passing. He was still fine running at the end - he lost all strength in his passing due to the shoulder injuries. Cam really often went straight in the pile in the middle like a RB. That takes its toll on shoulders. Josh very rarely does that, thankfully. 6 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Tough to take down, sure. mobile, no. Younger, he was. Maybe not like Josh but he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Tough to take down, sure. mobile, no. Ben used to run around a ton, he was always looking to pass though. He had one play I recall him extending almost 10 seconds before he threw the ball. He was a menace, but rarely was he going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Ben was never mobile? Are you kidding?! No he was never mobile. He exceeded 40 rush attempts 1 time in his career - as a rookie - for under 3 y/c. He could slide around the pocket, but he was not mobile and could not run. He was a big, tough SOB to bring down, but he was never anything like Cam or Josh. Almost all of the hits Ben took through his career were behind the LOS and while in the pocket. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Just now, Rochesterfan said: No he was never mobile. He exceeded 40 rush attempts 1 time in his career - as a rookie - for under 3 y/c. He could slide around the pocket, but he was not mobile and could not run. He was a big, tough SOB to bring down, but he was never anything like Cam or Josh. Almost all of the hits Ben took through his career were behind the LOS and while in the pocket. I completely disagree with you, he was out of the pocket all the time in his early years, he was always moving to pass. The box score doesn’t tell the story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I completely disagree with you, he was out of the pocket all the time in his early years, he was always moving to pass. The box score doesn’t tell the story. He would maneuver around behind the OL but wasn't a scrambling threat. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Commenting on Josh's post-hit laughing: "That is the kind of absolute ax murderer stuff we like in this segment." "We all know Josh Allen is a big old cantaloupe farmer." LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 7 hours ago, BearNorth said: They didn't even show the TD run, wonder how many times in his career Bobby Wagner has had a QB directly in his sights and not won the encounter. Ramsey had Josh in sight in backfield Jake Kumerow laid him out so he could not make a play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, DCofNC said: I completely disagree with you, he was out of the pocket all the time in his early years, he was always moving to pass. The box score doesn’t tell the story. Ok - even if you want to consider him mobile or not - did those hits cause him to have a shorter career and more injuries? That is the crux of the argument. Big Ben was cited as a player impacted by all of the hits, but the reality is he played 17 seasons - a very respectable number for a QB and his biggest injury came in the pocket throwing a ball - when an elbow tendon popped - not an injury attributed to the hits over the years as it is seen by baseball pitchers all the time from repetition. Matt Stafford has a similar though less severe injury from non-contact throwing. Edited September 14, 2022 by Rochesterfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 7 hours ago, TheProcess said: Was an incredible run and stiff arm. He earned that award. That said, I remember during the game on that play just hoping he could get out of bounds before absorbing contact. I then saw his throwing hand come up to land that jab of a stiff arm and was hoping he wouldn’t hurt his hand on the dudes face mask or helmet. Then the maniac gets up laughing about it. Never going to completely coach that out of Josh. Part of what makes him special. He did trip over the falling Rams player. He could have easily got injured as he was going over the player on the sideline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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