Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[Warcodered]

34 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I am not sure how finding something unappealing offends someone who finds the same thing appealing?

 

Do you think if Lamar would have thought the guy was homosexual, he would have made the same joke? Nope. Not a chance. Same with a woman.

 

Why would that be? Because it is demeaning to someone who does not prefer that.

 

 

Are you implying that Lamar Jackson did in depth research into that guy's sexual orientation before making that tweet....really?

[Boatdrinks]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because when as a gay man someone thinks "suck dick" is a way to insult a straight man they do it because they think being a gay man is lesser than being a straight man and that is why the straight man will be insulted by it. 

Need to stop encouraging those who think that “everyone else “ is the problem. In that regard, good for Jackson . Moving on…

[LeGOATski]

24 minutes ago, teef said:

what the ***** are you people doing?

You people? 

 

YOU PEOPLE?!?!

[teef]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

You people? 

 

YOU PEOPLE?!?!

i'll tell you to suck something that will set this place on fire.

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

You people? 

 

YOU PEOPLE?!?!

Apparently he thinks some people have multiple personalities disorder. 

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of course I don't get to speak for all gay people. But it is my equally strong opinion that this is a case of something needed to be called out. Because when famous sports star who is looked up to by many uses "suck dick" as an insult it only serves to empower those in society who end up sending a gay guy to hospital the next weekend with a broken jaw for "looking at me wrong" coming out of a pub on a Saturday night. I don't think Lamar is a homophobe. I do think when people in his position use being gay as a way to slur straight men it helps embed a feeling within people who are homophobic that they are right to think gay men are less than them. And when you've seen the aftereffects of that play out in real time in your lived experience believe me you become a lot less tolerant to the shoulder shrug. 

 

 

We 100% agree that there are things that need to be called out and things that need to be shrugged off.  I think our primary disagreement is about where the line is drawn.  It will always be that way between any two individuals I suppose.  The jaw breaking people you describe obviously have issues that were not caused by Lamar.  I do agree that they can be influenced by things they see/hear/read.  I’d be hard pressed to believe that this individual tweet by Lamar would turn them from non-violent bigots into jaw breakers.   
 

The secondary part of where I see a difference is that the degree of calling out has changed quite drastically with social media.  Many people have become pariahs for life.  Some may have deserved it, some may not have deserved it at all and some lie somewhere in between.  How many sentences has Jackson or any of us uttered in his life?  Does he deserve a Twitter storm of derision which will live online forever for one stupid sentence?  
 

Just a few years ago Jackson would have never known this guy said anything, so he would not have responded.  At that time, if someone said this to his face, he may have verbalized the same thing he wrote Sunday.  It wouldn’t have made it right, but the few people who heard may have thought “wow, what a jerk”.  Nowadays, “calling him out” means unleashing millions of online critics who simply must have the same opinion as everyone else.  Jackson should know this before he types on Twitter.  That said, being swarmed by millions of people for “saying something offensive” is not natural and is unique to our current technological status.  There are millions of more things to “hear” and to be offended by. IMO this brings with it a need ignore more things.  To be offended and call out all things offensive can easily become a full time job that does nothing for anyone.

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i'll tell you to suck something that will set this place on fire.

Boy STFU y'all be cappin too much on this site mf never smelt a societal injustice never did ***** but eat *****!!

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

We 100% agree that there are things that need to be called out and things that need to be shrugged off.  I think our primary disagreement is about where the line is drawn.  It will always be that way between any two individuals I suppose.  The jaw breaking people you describe obviously have issues that were not caused by Lamar.  I do agree that they can be influenced by things they see/hear/read.  I’d be hard pressed to believe that this individual tweet by Lamar would turn them from non-violent bigots into jaw breakers.   
 

The secondary part of where I see a difference is that the degree of calling out has changed quite drastically with social media.  Many people have become pariahs for life.  Some may have deserved it, some may not have deserved it at all and some lie somewhere in between.  How many sentences has Jackson or any of us uttered in his life?  Does he deserve a Twitter storm of derision which will live online forever for one stupid sentence?  
 

Just a few years ago Jackson would have never known this guy said anything, so he would not have responded.  At that time, if someone said this to his face, he may have verbalized the same thing he wrote Sunday.  It wouldn’t have made it right, but the few people who heard may have thought “wow, what a jerk”.  Nowadays, “calling him out” means unleashing millions of online critics who simply must have the same opinion as everyone else.  Jackson should know this before he types on Twitter.  That said, being swarmed by millions of people for “saying something offensive” is not natural and is unique to our current technological status.  There are millions of more things to “hear” and to be offended by. IMO this brings with it a need ignore more things.  To be offended and call out all things offensive can easily become a full time job that does nothing for anyone.

 

I agree with much of this and my views on the ills of the social media mob culture are well established on thie board. I am not asking for Jackson to be a social pariah. Not at all. I haven't even asked for him to be sanctioned by the NFL. I have really made three points in this thread:

 

1. The language he used means intentionally or unintentionally he has insulted more than just the fan he responded to;

 

2. It needs to be called out by his team and the media. Which in fairness it kind of has been; and

 

3. It is a bad look for someone hoping to convince his franchise he is a mature "face of the franchise" style leader who they should commit a record high, fully guaranteed, contract to. 

 

Beyond that I have simply challenged the "this is a bunch of nothingness" comments.

Edited November 29, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Teddy KGB]

12 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Is the issue that Lamar lashed out and hurled an insult at someone critical of his performance on twitter or that his choice of insult offended some very tender souls ? Seems the incident has been hijacked by crusaders and well that’s just dumb. Moving on…

have you missed 2020, 2021 etc.  

 

this is how it works now.   Lamar is a homophobe. 

[TheBrownBear]

38 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I agree that certain things need to be called out.  I agree I don’t get to decide when others are offended.  Neither do you though.
 

Your statement “What Lamar said was offensive” is true for you and likely many others.  Do you get to decide if all gay people are offended?  If they are not offended are they no longer truly gay?  Is there a list of demands to which they must adhere?

 

It is my strong opinion that there is a line where something needs to be written off rather than called out.  I don’t pretend to know where that line resides.  To take it to an extreme, I think it would be counterproductive to have protests in the streets over The Rolling Stones singer being called Mick because it offended Irish people.  It would also be counterproductive to ignore someone calling for segregation based on race/creed/sexual orientation/whatever.  Somewhere there is a point where being offended is detrimental to one’s self esteem.  That point is likely different for different people which complicates things but nobody should expect the world to be a simple place.
 

Losing individuality based on membership in a group……whether that group is oppressed, oppressive or neither…..to me is a very high cost and we have to be cognizant of it at all times.  If a gay individual is offended by what Lamar said, then they are offended and can act individually as they see fit.  If another gay individual is not offended, they should not be compelled to see things the same way as they other person.  

 

Insufficient calling out has led to atrocities throughout history.  Too much calling out can and has led to desensitizing people to real dangers.  IMO it also at times can show an underlying lack of respect for an oppressed group.  Too many people think that groups of others somehow need their help.

 

 It is one thing to treat an individual with care and respect based on their circumstances and quite another to assume an entire group of people need to be helped/defended/etc.  

I generally agree with most of what you've written here.  I think it's fine to call something out that is offensive, regardless of the severity of the offense.  I think people and society as a whole struggle with the appropriate "intensity" of the response.  What deserves a true public flogging or doxxing, and what deserves a "hey, that wasn't very nice and it is offensive to X/Y/Z, etc?"  Some believe any perceived verbal offense against a marginalized group deserves a harsh rebuke.  Others believe that should be reserved for "hate speech" that could conceivably endanger the physical safety of members of said group.  And then we get to the question of what language actually endangers the safety of said group - which reasonable people can disagree on.  At the end of the day, for the betterment of society and our ability to "all just get along" it's best to just be mindful of what we put out into the world, try our best to be kind in thoughts, words and actions, and do our best to minimize harm.  

 

Having said all that, I also believe we all need to learn to live with a certain amount of mild offensiveness - to get comfortable with a certain amount of emotional discomfort.  No matter how wonderful you may think you are (and you may very well be) there are always going to be others out there who are not going to like you, the way you think or the way you live.  It's so easy to take it personally, get emotional and flip out, but in the end it's better for your own sanity and wellbeing, to shrug it off, and acknowledge that it isn't anything you've done or can control.   

[4merper4mer]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with much of this and my views on the ills of the social media mob culture are well established on thie board. I am not asking for Jackson to be a social pariah. Not at all. I haven't even asked for him to be sanctioned by the NFL. I have really made three points in this thread:

 

1. The language he used means intentionally or unintentionally he has insulted more than just the fan he responded to;

 

2. It needs to be called out by his team and the media. Which in fairness it kind of has been; and

 

3. It is a bad look for someone hoping to convince his franchise he is a mature "face of the franchise" style leader who they should commit a record high, fully guaranteed, contract to. 

 

Beyond that I have simply challenged the "this is a bunch of nothingness" comments.

I agree but I think the media portion of point 2 above needs to have some perspective to it, and unfortunately that seems to be lacking more often than not in 2022 media of all stripes.

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I generally agree with most of what you've written here.  I think it's fine to call something out that is offensive, regardless of the severity of the offense.  I think people and society as a whole struggle with the appropriate "intensity" of the response.  What deserves a true public flogging or doxxing, and what deserves a "hey, that wasn't very nice and it is offensive to X/Y/Z, etc?"  Some believe any perceived verbal offense against a marginalized group deserves a harsh rebuke.  Others believe that should be reserved for "hate speech" that could conceivably endanger the physical safety of members of said group.  And then we get to the question of what language actually endangers the safety of said group - which reasonable people can disagree on.  At the end of the day, for the betterment of society and our ability to "all just get along" it's best to just be mindful of what we put out into the world, try our best to be kind in thoughts, words and actions, and do our best to minimize harm.  

 

Having said all that, I also believe we all need to learn to live with a certain amount of mild offensiveness - to get comfortable with a certain amount of emotional discomfort.  No matter how wonderful you may think you are (and you may very well be) there are always going to be others out there who are not going to like you, the way you think or the way you live.  It's so easy to take it personally, get emotional and flip out, but in the end it's better for your own sanity and wellbeing, to shrug it off, and acknowledge that it isn't anything you've done or can control.   

I agree with most of this.  A problem I see is that even mild responses like “uncool dude” when multiplied by millions of people saying it, can be harmful.  I don’t have a solution, just an observation.  It’s also what you sign up for when you are a celebrity and put something out there on Twitter, but we’re all just people at the end of the day and receiving a million dislikes or whatever probably isn’t fun.

[TheBrownBear]

5 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I agree with most of this.  A problem I see is that even mild responses like “uncool dude” when multiplied by millions of people saying it, can be harmful.  I don’t have a solution, just an observation.  It’s also what you sign up for when you are a celebrity and put something out there on Twitter, but we’re all just people at the end of the day and receiving a million dislikes or whatever probably isn’t fun.

Sure, as a human being I can feel that.  But that's why people are just better off avoiding social media altogether as it tends to attract a certain amount of trolls/sadists who get off on ruining another person's day.  I hate to say it, but it sort of "comes with the territory" at this point.  Social media isn't a safe space.  Assuming that you must use it for your business/brand or whatever, you'd best be very careful about what message you're putting out there, how it's worded and to whom it's directed, and even then, you better damn well be prepared for some negative reactions.

[Boatdrinks]

34 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

have you missed 2020, 2021 etc.  

 

this is how it works now.   Lamar is a homophobe. 

Lol I know what you’re saying , but no I didn’t miss it. Just don’t subscribe to that line of thinking and am just astounded at the stupidity I’ve seen in the last few years. 

[Another Fan]

Reading through this thread I’ll just leave it as social media is the downfall of a lot things today and we’d all be better off without it imo 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Another Fan

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But to that specific group of people him suggesting that guy do something not within his preferred range because it would be demeaning is offensive. It wasn't just insulting to that guy. It was insulting to gay men. 

I get your intentions, but why do you think you should speak for all gay men? Are you sure, as a group, gay men are offended by Lamar? Maybe, like me, they don't give a 💩 what someone like Lamar says. 

[transient]

19 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I get your intentions, but why do you think you should speak for all gay men? Are you sure, as a group, gay men are offended by Lamar? Maybe, like me, they don't give a 💩 what someone like Lamar says. 

Whether or not every member of a group perceives something as an insult doesn't change the fact that it was an insult directed at that group. If someone was to say "TBD is a bunch of jerks," regardless of whether members of TBD take issue with it or choose to ignore it wouldn't change the fact it was an insult directed at TBD. If I was to then say that was insulting to the members of TBD would I be speaking for everyone here or just acknowledging the obvious fact that the comment was meant to disparage the members of TBD?

Edited November 29, 2022 by transient

[BillsFanSD]

This seems like a dumb tangent.  Lamar's tweet was childish, vulgar, and unprofessional.  Putting it under a magnifying glass to find residual traces of homophobia is both a huge reach and completely unnecessary.  His tweet was worthy of criticism if he had simply called the guy Mr. Poopy-Pants.

[TheBrownBear]

10 minutes ago, transient said:

Whether or not every member of a group perceives something as an insult doesn't change the fact that it was an insult directed at that group. If someone was to say "TBD is a bunch of jerks," regardless of whether members of TBD take issue with it or choose to ignore it wouldn't change the fact it was an insult directed at TBD. If I was to then say that was insulting to the members of TBD would I be speaking for everyone here or just acknowledging the obvious fact that the comment was meant to disparage the members of TBD?

Not a great comparison, since Lamar's insult wasn't directed at gay men at all.  Lamar's intent was to insult that specific man, regardless of that dude's sexuality.  Obviously, the attempted insult was insinuating that the dude was gay, which shouldn't be an insult.  When someone, like Lamar, uses it as an insult against a straight man, then that demonstrates, at minimum, a level of ignorance that needs correcting, or, at worse, flat out bigotry.  Now I have no way of knowing what lies inside LJ's heart regarding gay men, so I can't go as far as calling him a bigot, but he clearly demonstrated his ignorance with his tweet.  

 

But I get what you're saying - what Lamar said was insulting to gay men (though, apparently not all gay men as Dopey makes clear).  So it clearly makes sense that many gay men would be offended by it.

[transient]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Not a great comparison, since Lamar's insult wasn't directed at gay men at all.  Lamar's intent was to insult that specific man, regardless of that dude's sexuality.  Obviously, the attempted insult was insinuating that the dude was gay, which shouldn't be an insult.  When someone, like Lamar, uses it as an insult against a straight man, then that demonstrates, at minimum, a level of ignorance that needs correcting, or, at worse, flat out bigotry.  Now I have no way of knowing what lies inside LJ's heart regarding gay men, so I can't go as far as calling him a bigot, but he clearly demonstrated his ignorance with his tweet.  

 

But I get what you're saying - what Lamar said was insulting to gay men (though, apparently not all gay men as Dopey makes clear).  So it clearly makes sense that many gay men would be offended by it.

Actually, the specific point I was trying to make was that not every member of a group has to feel insulted for something to clearly be an insult and the act of someone pointing out that what was said was insulting doesn't mean they're speaking for every member of said group.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I get your intentions, but why do you think you should speak for all gay men? Are you sure, as a group, gay men are offended by Lamar? Maybe, like me, they don't give a 💩 what someone like Lamar says. 

 

I don't think I should. Maybe I am the only person offended and every other gay man doesn't care. But I suspect very strongly the majority do.