Is Boston Media finally starting to sour on Bilicheat?

[UKBillFan]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Nothing against what he’s done in the past obviously but I wasn’t terribly impressed with belichick last season.  The pats making the playoffs felt a bit flukey imo…they got the browns and titans absolutely ravaged by injuries and the bills in that ridiculous wind storm.  couple that with the afc east having a bunch of easy opponents on the schedule to begin with… NYJ X 2,HOU,ATL,CAR,JAX.  They faded down the stretch against buffalo and two pretty good afc teams that didn’t even qualify for the playoffs (Mia and Ind) and got absolutely smoked in the playoffs. 
 

We faced JAX too. Remind me how that went? 

[CSBill]

18 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Looking critically at the last couple decades of Patriots seasons shows us a tendency to be at their worst in the first parts of the season, but to improve and to find some semblance of a winning identity by season's end. 

 

So it's reasonable to expect early struggles and bad losses before they sort some things out and plateau as an "in the hunt" fringe team. 

 

Or maybe they'll just absolutely implode!

 

You are correct RN. Except last year, they were trending down long before the infamous thud in Orchard Park. I think the end of the season was more representative of the direction this team is going in (Mac Jones scares no one). And this off-season has done nothing to change that perception.

Edited September 6, 2022 by CSBill

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Nothing against what he’s done in the past obviously but I wasn’t terribly impressed with belichick last season.  The pats making the playoffs felt a bit flukey imo…they got the browns and titans absolutely ravaged by injuries and the bills in that ridiculous wind storm.  couple that with the afc east having a bunch of easy opponents on the schedule to begin with… NYJ X 2,HOU,ATL,CAR,JAX.  They faded down the stretch against buffalo and two pretty good afc teams that didn’t even qualify for the playoffs (Mia and Ind) and got absolutely smoked in the playoffs. 
 

Hmmm... Bills played all those teams too plus Washington and their terrible QB. Bills played the worst collection of QBs in history last season.  Saints essentially played a fullback at QB.  Belichick made the playoffs with a rookie QB.  

As others have said, he is a terrible Gm, seems like a terrible person, but single game strategy is unequaled in NFL history.  Look no further than their first and last SB wins.  Pats defense stopped the Greatest Show on Turf and then held the newest genius OC to only 260 yards and 3 points.  

While I now believe Brady has moved past Montana.  I would still put Bill Walsh ahead of Belichick.  My top coaches are 1. Walsh 2. Belichick 3. Shula 4. Noll 5. Parcells. Lombardi, Madden, Landry, and Gibbs are just outside of the top 5.  I don't know enough about Paul Brown or many other very early NFL coaches to rank them.  

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I agree that he is a horrible gm. Another Jerry Jones situation where his ego prevents him from realizing others are better with personnel.

 

The 71-79 record includes when he was head coach of the Browns, who had a bad roster and were in the process of leaving Cleveland. Belichick was still finding his way as a head coach.

 

Bill also managed to have winning records with Matt Cassell and rookie Mac Jones at qb.

Ok, I can see that POV from a Pats fan, and I’m not knocking as you’re always respectful.  I think you do count Sal’s assessment of Cleveland’s (and yes I knew his math) record as he was still trying to win, and he made the playoffs once while at Cleveland.  The point is how he coached without Brady, and how much a QB means to a HC’s career.  
 

McBeane’s career is so closely aligned with Allen’s career.  I’m not taking away that BB had a hand in Brady’s success as he called games early in his career by the defense with the first 3 SB wins.  Brady came into his own in year 4 to 5 and beyond.

 

I’ve changed my POV on Brady since he’s been here in Tampa, not that I won’t root against him if he makes it to Miami or makes the SB against us this year.  I don’t see it this year though given how devastated the Bucs line will come up this year.

 

BB will be a HOF coach and deserves those accolades.  I just want to sweep them for as long as he is the HC for NE.  He did nothing to help his team this offseason.  They are in for another 7-10 to 9-8 season missing the playoffs.

 

You are one of the few Pats fans who comes here and is very respectful so thank you.  I never mind fans of other teams who are good to the other teams board like Zero, and Icebowl.  Even Spags is funny at times.  He just likes poking the bear with funny hot takes, so people laugh at him.

 

Havr a good day brother and GO BILLS!

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Warcodered said:

It is kind of one of those weird feelings where you're like "Is this a mirage or are the Patriots going to be terrible this year?"

 

I think they are legit going to be terrible. Two years ago when everyone was predicting that I was more circumspect because I felt at the time they had a top 5 offensive line and a top 5 secondary. They went 7-9 despite easily the worst QB play in the entire league from the corpse of Cam Newton's career. 

 

That offensive line has now broken down. Their two elite guards are on the Chiefs and the Buccs and they have really struggled in pre-season and camp to run the ball. Their secondary has since lost Stefon Gilmore, JC Jackson and Jason McCourty and Devin McCourty is still pencilled in as a starter at age 35. I think that unit will still end up out performing its on paper talent, but they have nothing at all at corner in terms of established options. 

 

I think they will end up earning a top 5 draft pick for the 2023 Draft. 

[Captain Hindsight]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I agree that he is a horrible gm. Another Jerry Jones situation where his ego prevents him from realizing others are better with personnel.

 

The 71-79 record includes when he was head coach of the Browns, who had a bad roster and were in the process of leaving Cleveland. Belichick was still finding his way as a head coach.

 

Bill also managed to have winning records with Matt Cassell and rookie Mac Jones at qb.

I give him more credit for the Mac Jones winning record than Cassel. That team had just went undefeated (minus the super bowl) and was loaded. I think they could have plugged any competent QB in there and won 9 games.

 

Jones was better than I expected him to be last year, but I think hes already near his peak ability. I'm surprised at the lack of quality weapons in NE. Their backs are great, but Aghelor and Jakobi Myers? Even Davante Parker who has been nothing but hype his entire career. Like where are the points coming from? Without McDaniels (who i personally think saw the writing on the wall and got out) I think the Pats* are in for a long year

[Rampage]

His entire career is built off of two players. Tom Brady & Lawerence Taylor. Without them he is a sub .500 coach. It's really that simple.

[DCbillsfan]

The playing field has finally leveled off in New England.  Belichick is a very good coach perhaps the best ever.  However he no longer has Brady at QB, perhaps the best player ever, who they got for a 6th rd pick and never was paid at market value.  Since Brady was "underpaid" they were able to afford other good players who under normal circumstances would have played somewhere else.  Also players wanted to play with Brady and did so for less money.  It was the perfect storm.  Also throw in there the AFC East competition was incredibly incompetent during most of that time.  I know people are starting to doubt Belichick now but not me.  If they get someone who can evaluate talent they could be tough.  Patriots have had poor drafts lately.

[ColoradoBills]

Take the Bills out of the equation for a moment when you look at BB and his 2021 season.

 

BB had the inside track to win the AFCE going into their Bye Week.  In the past when BB's teams would be at their best at the end

of a season and entering the playoffs.  What did they do?

 

The Pats lost 3 of their last 4 games with their only win against JAX.  They backed themselves into the playoffs and proceeded to lose

to the Bills in one of (if not THE worse) playoff loss since BB became HC.  In those 3 regular season games and the playoff loss the "vaunted" NE defense

with BB's famous X's and O's schemes gave up an average of 35 points per game!

During those games their offense averaged less than 20 points per game.

 

BB and the Patriots ended the 2021 season, by far in the worse way, since Bledsoe was QB.  Until he shows me that it was a horrible fluke,

I'm predicting the slow crumbling of the once mighty empire.  The NFL is much more about offense than defense and I don't think BB can

adjust to that change, especially with the secondary he currently has on the roster.

[FilthyBeast]

I think best case for the Patriots this year is Mac Jones takes a big step in year 2 and makes a woefully subpar supporting cast on offense look serviceable and the defense performs up to expectations of a Belichik unit. Worst case could be drastically different.

 

Either way this is one of the toughest teams in the league to accurately forecast this year because they could be anywhere between the 4 win bottom feeder team to a 11+ win division title/SB contender.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Rampage said:

His entire career is built off of two players. Tom Brady & Lawerence Taylor. Without them he is a sub .500 coach. It's really that simple.

There are some people on this board that going back even 5-10 year, they said BB was a great D-coordinator and an 'above average' head coach with a great QB/Roster that made him look better.  Even when the Pats were winning SBs I know some posted that and stuck by it.  Looking at his career, the good and the bad, and what is happening now (and what happened Before Brady), I think that assessment is turning out to be the closest to the truth.

 

Add to that the cheating that the NFL admitted to by punishing the team and I think that reinforces the above point even more.

 

Opinions about him are all over the place. But for me, it you are caught cheating AND you spent the greatest part of you career with who some consider the greatest QB of all time....but WITHOUT him you teams (more than one franchise) are average-to-below average, you don't get the nod as the 'greatest coach of all time'.

Edited September 6, 2022 by mjd1001

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I think best case for the Patriots this year is Mac Jones takes a big step in year 2 and makes a woefully subpar supporting cast on offense look serviceable and the defense performs up to expectations of a Belichik unit. Worst case could be drastically different.

 

Either way this is one of the toughest teams in the league to accurately forecast this year because they could be anywhere between the 4 win bottom feeder team to a 11+ win division title/SB contender.

 

Agree a lot of weight will be on Mac Jones's shoulders along with their DBs.

 

In the past teams had to play mistake free football to beat the Pats.  No one wanted to get in a shootout with TB at QB.

BB and TB dictated the play and teams were very intimidated by them.  That's in the past.  MJ is not TB and teams will play them 

more straight up and try to play "their game" and not BB's more than any time in the last 20+ years.  

[blacklabel]

All in all a pretty fair assessment. Belichunks has never drafted well and his assistant coaches often don't succeed on other teams. Every now and then they develop a mid to late round guy or an undrafted guy. Can't say the ol Hoodie isn't one of the all time greats but Brady made up for so much on those teams over the years. Allowed Belichunks to always focus more on defense and if things with the offense didn't look so hot on paper they'd just shurg and go "meh we still have Tom" and just roll the dice with whatever they had on offense. 

[machine gun kelly]

47 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I think best case for the Patriots this year is Mac Jones takes a big step in year 2 and makes a woefully subpar supporting cast on offense look serviceable and the defense performs up to expectations of a Belichik unit. Worst case could be drastically different.

 

Either way this is one of the toughest teams in the league to accurately forecast this year because they could be anywhere between the 4 win bottom feeder team to a 11+ win division title/SB contender.

Beast (one of my more likable or XMen), I just can’t see 11 wins.  I know you were speaking to the range, but I just see an avg team that beats mediocre teams, but can’t hold up against playoff caliber teams.

 

I don’t see them beating the Colts, Bengals, Ravens, Packers, the Fish once, and us twice.  They can’t win all the other games.  That’s why put a ceiling at 9-8.

[FilthyBeast]

14 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Beast (one of my more likable or XMen), I just can’t see 11 wins.  I know you were speaking to the range, but I just see an avg team that beats mediocre teams, but can’t hold up against playoff caliber teams.

 

I don’t see them beating the Colts, Bengals, Ravens, Packers, the Fish once, and us twice.  They can’t win all the other games.  That’s why put a ceiling at 9-8.

 

Like I said nothing would surprise me with the Pats this year including being in contention for the #1 overall pick and/or getting back to the SB.

 

What's most puzzling is how they are handling the offense and not adequately replacing Josh McDaniels which may ultimately lead to Belichik's demise. If it works out obviously he'll be praised as a genius yet again.

[TheBrownBear]

4 hours ago, Rampage said:

His entire career is built off of two players. Tom Brady & Lawerence Taylor. Without them he is a sub .500 coach. It's really that simple.

Tom Brady wasn't "Tom Brady" for that first Pats Super Bowl win.  He was the definition of a game managing QB.  That was an amazing coaching job by Belichick - same with his gameplan in Super Bowl XXV.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Like I said nothing would surprise me with the Pats this year including being in contention for the #1 overall pick and/or getting back to the SB.

 

What's most puzzling is how they are handling the offense and not adequately replacing Josh McDaniels which may ultimately lead to Belichik's demise. If it works out obviously he'll be praised as a genius yet again.

We don’t always agree, but I respect you’re pov.  I’m not biased as to how much I hate that team.  I just don’t see the talent to do it.  Hey,  bring up my posts in January if wrong as I’ve probably been wrong more than right.  🤩🦬🏋️‍♂️

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:09 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

Hmmm... Bills played all those teams too plus Washington and their terrible QB. Bills played the worst collection of QBs in history last season.  Saints essentially played a fullback at QB.  Belichick made the playoffs with a rookie QB.  

As others have said, he is a terrible Gm, seems like a terrible person, but single game strategy is unequaled in NFL history.  Look no further than their first and last SB wins.  Pats defense stopped the Greatest Show on Turf and then held the newest genius OC to only 260 yards and 3 points.  

While I now believe Brady has moved past Montana.  I would still put Bill Walsh ahead of Belichick.  My top coaches are 1. Walsh 2. Belichick 3. Shula 4. Noll 5. Parcells. Lombardi, Madden, Landry, and Gibbs are just outside of the top 5.  I don't know enough about Paul Brown or many other very early NFL coaches to rank them.  

Oh yea I’m by no means saying we had an impressive regular season…11 wins against that schedule was pretty disappointing.  Last year was a year where we should’ve been a heavy favorite for the 1 seed and we coughed it up due to a rough stretch in the middle of the season.  
 

I think our win total was a bit of an aberration though as we went 0-5 in one score games…that tends to correct itself in the following season assuming the team in question is at least decent. I don’t think it’s controversial to say that we would have beaten the pats pretty comfortably in slightly less windy conditions though and that really was the difference between them making/missing the playoffs.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:34 PM, stuvian said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/08/31/sports/patriots-draft-failures-are-glaring-bill-belichick-deserves-some-blame-not-developing-young-players/

 

it's sounding like a disastrous offseason in Chowderland. I'm not one to doubt BB but losing Brady and now McDaniel combined with a few bad drafts has him looking vulnerable

after so many years of favoritism, cheating they got spoiled 

 

I have no doubt that they will get real ugly 3-5 at almost mid season 

[BillStime]

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