Bills cuts

[mannc]

15 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Who gets cut to activate Muffquez?  Asking for a friend....

Maybe no one…maybe there’s an injury…such things are not unheard of in tackle football.

[Forlorn hope]

37 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Who gets cut to activate Muffquez?  Asking for a friend....

Probably Cam Lewis. If Tre is active, possibly Kumerow 

[Royale with Cheese]

55 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I thought he started out good last year before falling off….either way that’s not my point…. A guy like Moss is easily replaceable by a cheap street FA such ala Duke Johnson. 

So if James Cook produces like an Alvin Kamara, its still a mistake?

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So if James Cook produces like an Alvin Kamara, its still a mistake?

 

The pendulum swung from the RBs of the league being very important to this "dime a dozen" anyone can do it.

Personally, I think it swung a little too far.  Teams with a good running back still have an advantage IMO.

Overpaying older guys is still not a good idea.  RBs lifetimes in the NFL is low with the abuse they take.

 

A 2nd round RB (especially late in the round) is not outside sound reasoning to me.  He does need to perform over the norm and stay healthy

to be worth the pick.  Cook's career is just starting, we'll see.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I thought he started out good last year before falling off….either way that’s not my point…. A guy like Moss is easily replaceable by a cheap street FA such ala Duke Johnson. 

Can you name a current team that meets your standards for success as an overall team, success at the RB position and an RB stable which has had a proper amount of resource expenditure?  

[JDHillFan]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Anytime you pick a RB in the 2nd round… when you already have plenty in the stable is a bad pick IMO… that position is so easily duplicated high picks on it are typically a waste IMO….

High draft pick. I’d be all for Dobbins in the 2nd assuming he lasts and they address WR correctly via FA/1st round. 
 

The offense is just void of playmakers. They need as many as they can get. Howard isn’t one. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by ScottLaw

 

😅🤦‍♂️

[marck]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So if James Cook produces like an Alvin Kamara, its still a mistake?

James Cook is a unique player due to his prowess as a receiver both out of the backfield and in the slot and even from the X or Y positions on the field

[DrDawkinstein]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

😂

 

You don’t think Zach Moss is good, you have said that multiple times.

 

Alvin Kamara was a 2nd round pick when Mark Ingram was a top back in the league.

 

James Cook is a similar in style to Kimara.

 

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The pendulum swung from the RBs of the league being very important to this "dime a dozen" anyone can do it.

Personally, I think it swung a little too far.  Teams with a good running back still have an advantage IMO.

Overpaying older guys is still not a good idea.  RBs lifetimes in the NFL is low with the abuse they take.

 

A 2nd round RB (especially late in the round) is not outside sound reasoning to me.  He does need to perform over the norm and stay healthy

to be worth the pick.  Cook's career is just starting, we'll see.

 

I feel like the 2nd round is the sweet spot for teams that are already built and just looking for the RB to push them over the top. Using a 1st is too early, and mid/late rounds you might as well just try to strike oil in an UDFA. 2nd round is high enough to get talent, without wasting the valuable first.

 

Beane tried a couple of 3rd rounders and theyve been mediocre. I like what he was trying to do in pushing the RB window back a round, but I think he finally realized that drop off from the 2nd to 3rd is real.

 

Also, see Thurman Thomas.

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Anytime you pick a RB in the 2nd round… when you already have plenty in the stable is a bad pick IMO… that position is so easily duplicated high picks on it are typically a waste IMO….

 

Agreed, generally. But not absolutely. 

 

Singletary will be gone after this season, and Moss will be gone (at the latest) after next season. Cook could/should provide 3+ seasons as a matchup weapon for a QB who hasn't yet had that out of the backfield...

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I thought he started out good last year before falling off….either way that’s not my point…. A guy like Moss is easily replaceable by a cheap street FA such ala Duke Johnson. 

 

A guy like Moss COULD be replaceable by a street FA, yes...(especially with respect to cost)

 

But we might be able to get more than you think out of him (especially next season) in a predominantly zone-based scheme with more play-action and screens. You've seen him flash as a physical back with some passing game dependability (against New England stands out). You've also seen him be less than 100% and look a step too slow and lose his touches. 

 

For a 17-game season, I like Moss as the #3 RB for the Bills. And with Duke and Raheem on the PS, at least for now, I LOVE the depth overall. These guys get dinged up. The ROI on the two 3rds and a 2nd hasn't been much to date, but that might tick upward if Singletary continues to improve his upfield explosiveness, and Moss continues to looks healthy, and Cook continues to look smooth AF. 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, marck said:

James Cook is a unique player due to his prowess as a receiver both out of the backfield and in the slot and even from the X or Y positions on the field

 

u·nique

adjective

being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

 

I think you are confusing Cook being a player with some promise in multiple aspects of the game with being "unique".

 

There are a lot of players who excel in both the pass and run game......some can even pick up a blitz without looking like they just got hit by a truck.

 

Cook is not unique and he obviously has a LONG way to go to earn comps to the likes of Kamara, McCaffrey, Austin Ekeler etc..

 

And even elite versions of those receiving type of RB's don't produce in the pass game like a good slot receiver, which is why the "3rd down back" is basically dead to the NFL.

 

And one thing that a couple decades plus of playoff history has shown us is that teams that go out of their way to give RB's touches in the playoffs...........because they've invested heavily in them and that's what they did all season..........suffer in the playoffs.    Doesn't matter if it's a guy like Derrick Henry or a totally different type like Alvin Kamara.    

[Richard Noggin]

26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The RB depth is terrific…. My point is it’s a position that’s easily replaced, so consistently spending high resources on the position year after year is not a smart investment considering you can find good depth rather easily and cheap. They’ve spent two thirds and a second on the position the past three years…. Something I’d love to see them do at say WR or offensive line…. And this offense/team thrives with Josh Allen and the passing game…. The investment should be at making the passing game better… The offense is almost always at a disadvantage when the ball isn’t in Josh Allen’s hands.

 

 

 

Nothing I disagree with here. 

 

And to one of your points, they need to get serious about having more in the pipeline at both WR and OL while they have #17. An extra 2nd or 3rd round asset in the last 3 drafts on the IOL could be REALLY valuable right about now. I have some questions about IOL depth, which I'm afraid are answered by Bobby Hart and Greg Van Roten and maybe Tommy Doyle? Injury at G or C (Bates HAS to be the backup C, yeah?) immediately exposes this likely weakness. What am I missing? 

 

Counterpoint: the threat of being able to run the ball and utilize play-action and screens more effectively DOES improve a team's passing game by slowing down the pass rush and wrong-footing defenders on the 2nd and 3rd levels. 

[eball]

Prediction:  James Cook is the starting RB going into 2023.  I feel like he has skills akin to Thurman, albeit with more speed.  2022 is Motor’s year, but he won’t be signed to a 2nd contract and I won’t be surprised if we see more and more of Cook as the season progresses.

 

Cook will make the passing game better by being an extra weapon for Josh.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The RB depth is terrific…. My point is it’s a position that’s easily replaced, so consistently spending high resources on the position year after year is not a smart investment considering you can find good depth rather easily and cheap. They’ve spent two thirds and a second on the position the past three years…. Something I’d love to see them do at say WR or offensive line…. And this offense/team thrives with Josh Allen and the passing game…. The investment should be at making the passing game better… The offense is almost always at a disadvantage when the ball isn’t in Josh Allen’s hands.

 

 

 

Four years. But you know I agree with your overall point.

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The RB depth is terrific…. My point is it’s a position that’s easily replaced, so consistently spending high resources on the position year after year is not a smart investment considering you can find good depth rather easily and cheap. They’ve spent two thirds and a second on the position the past three years…. Something I’d love to see them do at say WR or offensive line…. And this offense/team thrives with Josh Allen and the passing game…. The investment should be at making the passing game better… The offense is almost always at a disadvantage when the ball isn’t in Josh Allen’s hands.

 

 

 

1st the RB picks have been over 4 years not 3

 

2nd James Cook is going to be used as a split out WR, slot WR and RB - so they took a guy to be a weapon for Josh not a RB - which is what you want - guys that catch passes from Josh.

 

3rd - in that same amount of time they have drafted 5 OL players, traded for 1 ( now our starting RG), signed 12 as FA, and 11 as UDFAs as young depth of which several draft picks and UDFAs have been poached.

 

4th - during that same timeframe we have drafted 4 WRs and traded a 1st round pick for Diggs and drafted 2 TEs.

 

Finally - the draft has been used since 2019 on 15 offensive players, 14 defensive players, and 2 special teams players - a fairly healthy mix on both sides of the ball over the last 4 years.

I get that you want to hate everything they do, but the facts just do not back you up.  They have spent resources on RB, but they have also spent resources on WR, TE, and OL - several of which like Doyle and Brown are the potential future of the line along with Bates.

 

Across the league - they are widely considered to have some of the best depth across the roster and especially at the OL.  People can hate Hart and Van Roten, but they are not starters - they are depth players and they have done that in the league for years.  The WR room that you complain lacks depth gets high marks from around the league because several players have multi-positional flexibility and can swing inside and outside to help cover for holes - plus you have Knox and Cook that can both swing outside and allow 2 slots if needed.

 

I think they are covering as many bases as possible and sometimes that means drafting a Swiss Army knife in the second round and having him labeled as a RB, but using him in different ways.  Sometimes that means drafting a slot WR in the 5th round that has shown ability to play slot, outside, and slide into the backfield for screens and quick passes. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Cam Akers was a 2nd rounder a couple or so years ago.

 

And for all that Akers is a nice player, his team won the Superbowl despite him hardly playing all season and racking up a fantastic 21 yards on 13 carries in the big game. He doesn't move the needle for that Rams team. The only running back picked since this regime has been in Buffalo who has truly moved the needle for his team is Jonathan Taylor and part of the reason he moves the needle because they have been bad at Quarterback. When you are special at Quarterback, like the Bills are, using three day 2 picks looking for that one every half decade needle mover at running back is not the smartest allocation of resources. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Have all the players released been scooped up?

 

meaning teams WANTED the Bills cast offs because Beane is 🦄 with talent 

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And for all that Akers is a nice player, his team won the Superbowl despite him hardly playing all season and racking up a fantastic 21 yards on 13 carries in the big game. He doesn't move the needle for that Rams team. The only running back picked since this regime has been in Buffalo who has truly moved the needle for his team is Jonathan Taylor and part of the reason he moves the needle because they have been bad at Quarterback. When you are special at Quarterback, like the Bills are, using three day 2 picks looking for that one every half decade needle mover at running back is not the smartest allocation of resources. 

It really isn’t and it’s bizarre - for what they seem to want to do, use the running game to keep the defense honest, make the offense more physical, and protect the QB while offering him a short passing outlet - you can find that kind of personnel deep in the draft or cheap in free agency.  Did they really need to use a Day 2 pick on a player like Zack Moss?!  If your much-hyped scouting department can’t find you that same skillset in the $.99 CD bin (now I’m really aging myself), it’s time to find better scouts.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It really isn’t and it’s bizarre - for what they seem to want to do, use the running game to keep the defense honest, make the offense more physical, and protect the QB while offering him a short passing outlet - you can find that kind of personnel deep in the draft or cheap in free agency.  Did they really need to use a Day 2 pick on a player like Zack Moss?!  If your much-hyped scouting department can’t find you that same skillset in the $.99 CD bin (now I’m really aging myself), it’s time to find better scouts.

Beane follows his board it served him well so far

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think their defensive depth is very, very good…. I disagree with whoever feels their offensive depth is good. It’s not.

If you disagree, that’s fine. Hopefully I’m proven wrong or they never get to that point where they have to use the depth…. Or Josh just takes over and masks every weakness they have(which is what we saw in the divisional game last season).
 

And no, I don’t hate everything they do. Beane and McD are at least top 7, maybe top 3 GM/HC combo in the league… they’ve built a very good roster that should compete with any team in the league…they aren’t perfect though and have their flaws such as resource allocation to certain positions while not prioritizing as much at others. JMO.

 

I agree that McDermott/Beane have made mistakes.  I am interested to see the six GM/HC combos who you think are better, though.