sherpa Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why focus just on nuclear codes? There were hundreds of classified docs. Trying to simply focus on a single possible secret, and then dismissing it as a nothingburger, is really just an attempt at distraction This is what happens constantly with you. You imply false premises, you falsely suggest others support an enemy, and you repeatedly imply things that simply aren't there. It isn't "focus just on nuclear codes," and I have never suggested a "nothingburger." It is a question towards those who repeatedly bring it up, implying immense significance, challenging if they actually know what it means. This site's posters can draw swords against eachother forever, but as of now, nothing has been provided in any factual sense that treason has been committed. When that happens, see where the chips fall. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 50 minutes ago, sherpa said: This is what happens constantly with you. You imply false premises, you falsely suggest others support an enemy, and you repeatedly imply things that simply aren't there. It isn't "focus just on nuclear codes," and I have never suggested a "nothingburger." It is a question towards those who repeatedly bring it up, implying immense significance, challenging if they actually know what it means. This site's posters can draw swords against eachother forever, but as of now, nothing has been provided in any factual sense that treason has been committed. When that happens, see where the chips fall. Oh no, a very good circumstantial case can be drawn that he was committing treason. A judge did great a search warrant on the basis that the espionage act had been violated while Trump was illegally stealing secret documents from the government. Furthermore, past actions show that this guy is willing to buddy up to some very bad people. You run with the dogs, you get fleas. He really looks guilty, just from what we know now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 58 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Oh no, a very good circumstantial case can be drawn that he was committing treason. A judge did great a search warrant on the basis that the espionage act had been violated while Trump was illegally stealing secret documents from the government. Furthermore, past actions show that this guy is willing to buddy up to some very bad people. You run with the dogs, you get fleas. He really looks guilty, just from what we know now. Didn't he also turn everyone into a newt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Oh no, a very good circumstantial case can be drawn that he was committing treason. A judge did great a search warrant on the basis that the espionage act had been violated while Trump was illegally stealing secret documents from the government. Furthermore, past actions show that this guy is willing to buddy up to some very bad people. You run with the dogs, you get fleas. He really looks guilty, just from what we know now. Believe it or not, I don’t want to the guy to be guilty of anything. (Again, I’ll note that watching him get shaved and squirted with a hose would be pretty funny. But I digress.) The reality is that if he did commit a crime of the nature under discussion, he would exposed the country that we all love to harm. That’s really, really bad. So (and I think you’re in the same spot as me), I want the chips to fall where they may, to let the investigation run its course, and to simply follow the facts to a conclusion that I hope reveals that he did not do anything to threaten our national security. But, like you, I don’t think this looks good for him right now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: He's guilty because he is guilty. You don't WANT him to be, obviously, but if he supports Putin over our intelligence agency and then steals top secret docs, that tells me he did it for a reason. He is a traitor if he gave away our secrets to Russia or anyone else. traitor No reason for Trump or his corrupt cronies to have this. Lock them up! Of course I DO NOT want him to be guilty of selling state secrets, not because I am a Trumper but because as an American I don't like the idea of our secrets being sold. What kind of American is rooting for these allegations to be true? But you somehow seem to be correlating Trump having documents with the claim that he sold them. Is their any proof of this? If not, maybe rethink your position. The people who don't differentiate the two points are either bad faith actors, wilfully ignorant or just regular ignorant for refusing to think. Do you want to complain about an ex president taking docs he shouldn't have? By all means, it seems to be the case, but it's rarely that simple when it comes to Trump. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 He sure acts innocent 🙄 At this point we have to to try and figure out which of his crimes against the United States is worse, an attempt to steal an election from the American people or his selling us out to the enemies of freedom? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I find the certainty of some members of this board hilarious. Most of the dirt against Trump is being published by the NYT or WP both of whom have lied multiple times about Trump, so they have no credibility. Trump himself has done nothing that shows he is innocent, he seems happy just antagonizing the FBI. And Merrick Garland just seems incompetent in a very wishy washy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Prove he did something with the alleged classified information or prove intent. The standard has been set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 49 minutes ago, Doc said: Prove he did something with the alleged classified information or prove intent. The standard has been set. By whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongyz Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: By whom? I believe it's the FBI (Comey)as they did for Hillary. Also, it was BS then and should be now. If he should be prosecuted, go for it. Get Hillary too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 Neither Trump nor his supporters have offered a rational reason for why he would possess the classified docs and why he would refuse to return the requested docs. Some have suggested he kept them for his memoirs. Which suggests he would publish the information which is the opposite of a defense. The blanket declassification excuse is bogus. Everyone is speculating why he is innocent or guilty with the limited knowledge we have. Michael Cohen knows Trump better than anyone. His speculation is Trump took and kept the classified documents as a weapon to blackmail the government if DOJ ever prosecuted him for other stuff. He would have no problem threatening to or releasing the information, sacrificing the security of the nation, to save his own skin. It’s all speculation now. Hopefully we learn the truth eventually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Andy1 said: Neither Trump nor his supporters have offered a rational reason for why he would possess the classified docs and why he would refuse to return the requested docs. Some have suggested he kept them for his memoirs. Which suggests he would publish the information which is the opposite of a defense. The blanket declassification excuse is bogus. Everyone is speculating why he is innocent or guilty with the limited knowledge we have. Michael Cohen knows Trump better than anyone. His speculation is Trump took and kept the classified documents as a weapon to blackmail the government if DOJ ever prosecuted him for other stuff. He would have no problem threatening to or releasing the information, sacrificing the security of the nation, to save his own skin. It’s all speculation now. Hopefully we learn the truth eventually. What was Hilly doing with her classified emails? Not that she had any authority to de-classify them. So again, let's see what there is (we still don't know and it's coming up on 3 weeks), what he did with them or even what his intent was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Andy1 said: Neither Trump nor his supporters have offered a rational reason for why he would possess the classified docs and why he would refuse to return the requested docs. Some have suggested he kept them for his memoirs. Which suggests he would publish the information which is the opposite of a defense. The blanket declassification excuse is bogus. Everyone is speculating why he is innocent or guilty with the limited knowledge we have. Michael Cohen knows Trump better than anyone. His speculation is Trump took and kept the classified documents as a weapon to blackmail the government if DOJ ever prosecuted him for other stuff. He would have no problem threatening to or releasing the information, sacrificing the security of the nation, to save his own skin. It’s all speculation now. Hopefully we learn the truth eventually. Not a lawyer but have done some research and have read opinions from various legal minds pro and con. From all this, I conclude the rules and processes established by The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, determine how these documents need to be handled and this Act supersedes any legal argument that can be made by invoking the Espionage Act against a former President. And as things move through the courts I expect the defense to pursue this argument and the DOJ will argue against it. I believe precedent is on the side of the defense. I believe the defense will cite clear and progressively cooperative discussions and interactions with the Archivist and the FBI as proof of compliance with requests and subpoenas, I believe the defense will charge the government actions were excessive, intrusive, intentionally and incorrectly non-specific, and unnecessary. I believe the defense will argue Garland's assertion that their was no other option to be a lie and motivated by politics and direction from the White House. I believe they will argue the AG has a clear conflict of interest and upon receiving orders and direction from the White House to execute the warrant and the search should have recused himself and by not doing this has biased any legal argument the government can make. I believe this direction from the White House is clearly established by released documents under FOIA. Given the warrant was issued citing violations of the Espionage Act the defense will argue that law is superseded and irrelevant to the case and and therefore the warrant and the search is illegal. And that whether or not some documents under the control of the former President were classified or secret is irrelevant. If the case reaches SCOTUS there's a good chance the court would agree with that argument. The act: Establishes public ownership of all Presidential records and defines the term Presidential records. Requires that Vice-Presidential records be treated in the same way as Presidential records. Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent Presidential records with the President. Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records. Allows the incumbent President to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal have been obtained in writing. Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA. Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office. Establishes a process by which the President may restrict and the public may obtain access to these records after the President leaves office; specifically, the PRA allows for public access to Presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. Codifies the process by which former and incumbent Presidents conduct reviews for executive privilege prior to public release of records by NARA (which had formerly been governed by Executive order 13489). Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489. Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.) Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records. Edited August 25, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBills Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 It's basically this... If the Communist Leftist Idealogue regime doesn't like you, they will come after you and take you down, no matter the attack vector it will happen. Its a symptom of the Means To An End Party It's basically the maturation and destiny of all successful Civilizations, they all die at some point. Rome was the most powerful Empire ever, and they were too strong to crush head-on, so their jealous enemies concocted more skillful methods to cajole the Empire to ruin itself. It's the same with COVID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 On 8/23/2022 at 11:23 AM, sherpa said: The codes were useless upon Biden's inauguration. I would think these "codes" today would work as well as his White House email password (which he probably had written down somewhere in there too). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I would think these "codes" today would work as well as his White House email password (which he probably had written down somewhere in there too). BidenBalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 On 8/24/2022 at 8:30 AM, Tiberius said: Why focus just on nuclear codes? There were hundreds of classified docs. Trying to simply focus on a single possible secret, and then dismissing it as a nothingburger, is really just an attempt at distraction Because it's sexier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 31 minutes ago, Tiberius said: They bring on people who don't necessarily align with them. And this guy is just spit-balling what might be in there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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