Rico Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 6 hours ago, folz said: Sorry to jump on an old post, but I'm always surprised by how many Bills fans think Marv Levy is overrated, lucky (due to personnel), or just not that great of a coach. I assume a lot of this sentiment is from younger fans who didn't actually watch those '90s teams and only see 4 Super Bowl loses with a loaded roster. But, you say Marv Levy was fortunate---i.e. he only has a good record because of the talent he coached on the Bills (Kelly, Bruce, Thurman, Andre, etc.). And that "Head Coaches that have had success at multiple locations..." As if Marv never did anything before coming to the Bills. Here is an abbreviated list of what he did before coming to Buffalo. I hope you and other fans who think Marv is overrated read this. - In his first coaching job (2 years coaching football and basketball at a high school in St. Louis), he coached their basketball team to a championship. - He then returned to Coe College (his alma mater) for two years as asst. football coach and head coach of the basketball team. He led the basketball team to a championship. - At his next stop, University of New Mexico, he was an asst. for 4 years before being named head football coach. In two years as the top man, he had a 14-6 record and won Conference Coach of the Year. - Didn't do great in his stint with UC Berkeley, but did hire and groom Bill Walsh on his staff. - In 5 years as head coach of William & Mary, he won a Conference Title and Conference Coach of the Year twice. - Four years in the NFL as Special Teams Coordinator under George Allen. - Became Head Coach of the Montreal Allouettes in the CFL. In 5 seasons, he took the team to the playoffs and the Eastern Conference Finals all 5 years. And made it to the Championship game 3 times, winning it all (the Grey Cup) twice and earning CFL Coach of the Year in 1974. How many coaches can say they took their teams to 4 Super Bowls and 3 Grey Cups? He made it to the big game 7 times with two different teams. - Five years Head Coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. People knock his record here, but he took over a 2-12 team, the worst team in the league, that just had their best two defensive players retire. Not counting the strike year, his record was 28-36. Not great, but there was improvement every year (from that 2 win season before he arrived) to 4 wins, then 7 wins, then 8 wins, and to a 9-7 record in 1981. And remember, this was pre-free agency. Rebuilds took a lot longer back in the day. It wasn't like today where teams can go worst to first in one year with a good free agency class. With the Bills, besides the Super Bowl runs and his record, he was also named NFL Coach of the Year in 1988; and AFC Coach of the Year 3 times (in 1988, 1993, and 1995). And fans really underestimate how he was able to bring that collection of alpha, ego-driven, big personalities of the '90s Bills together as a team. A lot of coaches wouldn't have been able to bring that group of guys together no matter how much talent they had. It took Marv's wisdom, experience, and demeanor to do that. Not to mention how hard it is to coach one team to a Super Bowl, but to keep getting a team back there despite losing every year is a major coaching feat in its own. The character, commitment, perseverance, and fortitude to do that is rare. And Marv did have success in multiple locations with different players---maybe not multiple NFL teams (as HC), but then, he only had two opportunities as HC in the NFL and at least his KC team was improving each year. If anything, Marv is now underrated by too many Bills fans. End of rant. 😊 Then he became Bills GM. 🤡 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: He should. Mac Jones was a "Pro Bowl" QB in 2021 and the Bills QB was not. BB is judging his QB on another level. Is this supposed to be facetious? Because Josh was a Pro Bowl QB last year. He just told them to go ***** themselves when they named him as a replacement (for Jackson, who had no business being name to it), so they turned to Macorkle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Rico said: Then he became Bills GM. 🤡 I see your GM Marv and raise you Buddy Nix. Also, let’s not forget what a bang up job Hoodie is doing as GM, you know, the coaching “GOAT” 🤔. Just sayin’ Marv’s admittedly failure as a GM doesn’t detract from the coaching resume @folz outlined for us upthread, imho. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Gump Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) Pats 5-12, maybe they squeak out 6 wins. Enjoy the basement New Macland!! Enjoy chewing on my tough stringy balls. We don't cook them here like they do in Denver. Edited August 25, 2022 by Bubba Gump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) The teets on Bill, tho... Edited August 25, 2022 by Rocky Landing 1 1 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: The teets on Bill, tho... Good for the old man...now retire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said: We lost to the Giants in the first super bowl because he couldn’t control Jim Kelly's ego and run the ball. Look at Thurman Thomases ypc and asked why he wasn’t used more to force the Giants out of their defense? I for one will never forgive him for that… Thomas had 135 yards rushing in that game along with a rushing TD. What would be considered running the ball, 160? The offense had no problems that game. The real issue was the Bills D couldn't get off the field and let the Giants O chew up an insane amount of clock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, Metal Man said: Thomas had 135 yards rushing in that game along with a rushing TD. What would be considered running the ball, 160? The offense had no problems that game. The real issue was the Bills D couldn't get off the field and let the Giants O chew up an insane amount of clock. the offense scored 17 points. There may have been a few problems mixed in their day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, NoSaint said: the offense scored 17 points. There may have been a few problems mixed in their day. Right but they didn't have a lot of opportunities to score with The major disparity in time of possession. Giants had scoring drives of: 9:29 (Record at the time) 7:32 6:15 Total TOP: Bills - 19:27 NYG - 40:33 Not trying to get into a big argument over it with anyone but after years of people analyzing this game the idea that Kelly's ego caused them to pass too much is just an odd take that I had never heard. No doubt there were some offensive drives that ended in punts that maybe shouldn't have but the lasting images to most from that game is the Bills D allowing 3rd down conversion after 3rd down conversion with a lot of bad tackling thrown in along the way. Especially on that 9:29 drive to start the second half which was preceded by a long drive from the Giants to end the half. The strategy to limit the Buffalo Offense was to keep it off the field by controlling the ball and it obviously worked. Edited August 25, 2022 by Metal Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 16 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said: HUDS, no lie, my buddy in New England said a few weeks ago on Boston area sports talk tv the topic one day… … … …was about whether Mac Jones will be a Hall of Famer. @NoHuddleKelly12 Please, I am sorry my friend. This is not to beat a dead horse especially after you so eloquently painted with words and memes and gave the whole topic nice finality. ...but I was incorrect with my description, so it warrants a revision. The topic was actually..."Is Mac Jones a Hall of Famer?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 10 hours ago, Bubba Gump said: Pats 5-12, maybe they squeak out 6 wins. Enjoy the basement New Macland!! Enjoy chewing on my tough stringy balls. We don't cook them here like they do in Denver. 5-12 sounds about right. Could be off by 5 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Metal Man said: Right but they didn't have a lot of opportunities to score with The major disparity in time of possession. Giants had scoring drives of: 9:29 (Record at the time) 7:32 6:15 Total TOP: Bills - 19:27 NYG - 40:33 Not trying to get into a big argument over it with anyone but after years of people analyzing this game the idea that Kelly's ego caused them to pass too much is just an odd take that I had never heard. No doubt there were some offensive drives that ended in punts that maybe shouldn't have but the lasting images to most from that game is the Bills D allowing 3rd down conversion after 3rd down conversion with a lot of bad tackling thrown in along the way. Especially on that 9:29 drive to start the second half which was preceded by a long drive from the Giants to end the half. The strategy to limit the Buffalo Offense was to keep it off the field by controlling the ball and it obviously worked. Defense lost SBXV, no doubt. That said, Kelly’s ego definitely got in the way, especially early on. Belichick, with his “genius” two down linemen with everyone else standing up, was essentially daring us to run the ball. All those defenders standing up was a gift of leverage to one of the most dominant O lines we’ve seen and Kelly should have punished them with TT early and often until Belichick had seen enough. Given how TT tore them up on his few opportunities just underscores that idea. And Kelly would have had better opportunities to torch them as a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: @NoHuddleKelly12 Please, I am sorry my friend. This is not to beat a dead horse especially after you so eloquently painted with words and memes and gave the whole topic nice finality. ...but I was incorrect with my description, so it warrants a revision. The topic was actually..."Is Mac Jones a Hall of Famer?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: The teets on Bill, tho... Bill needs a manzier. Or is it a bro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 1 hour ago, K-9 said: Defense lost SBXV, no doubt. That said, Kelly’s ego definitely got in the way, especially early on. Belichick, with his “genius” two down linemen with everyone else standing up, was essentially daring us to run the ball. All those defenders standing up was a gift of leverage to one of the most dominant O lines we’ve seen and Kelly should have punished them with TT early and often until Belichick had seen enough. Given how TT tore them up on his few opportunities just underscores that idea. And Kelly would have had better opportunities to torch them as a result. Maybe Kelly still had some "beer muscles" going on from the alleged legendary partying they all did the night before. 😁 TT did go for 135 on 15, 9 YPC with the Bills having the ball barely over a quarter so I can see the argument for him having more opportunities. Unfortunately Belichick*** looks to have found his way into Kelly's head that game. Really hate that guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 15 hours ago, Doc said: Is this supposed to be facetious? Because Josh was a Pro Bowl QB last year. He just told them to go ***** themselves when they named him as a replacement (for Jackson, who had no business being name to it), so they turned to Macorkle. Yes it was Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 16 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: He should. Mac Jones was a "Pro Bowl" QB in 2021 and the Bills QB was not. BB is judging his QB on another level. Yep....need sarcasm font 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: The teets on Bill, tho... he’s smiling because no one can see the hidden stimulation wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 14 hours ago, aceman_16 said: Good for the old man...now retire You are quite simply wrong, stat watching doesn’t tell the story. He had that many yards because he averaged around 10 yards a carry. The offense had trouble throwing the ball. They only used 2 defensive lineman. Look at how many carries Thurman had? Ridiculously few for what he was averaging, it’s why we didn’t score more points and win that game. If we kept running they would have had to change the defenses, it would have altered the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf63 Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Last Guy on the Bench said: Cool. Let's say you're right in your analysis of SB XXV. (There are a lot more variables at play in a complex phenomenon like a football game than your simple reduction can possibly do justice to, but for the sake of argument, let's say you're right.) You are holding up one bad decision or failure against the LONG pattern of success that @folz outlined. And to you, that means he's a bad coach and can never be "forgiven." You completely erase all the decisions he made along the way to get them to that Super Bowl. I just can't think that way. If you want to argue that Marv wasn't perfect, I'm right there with you. But of course no one is perfect, so that's not much of a discussion. If you want to argue that Marv's failings significantly outweighed his strengths, then I refer you back to @folz's original post. Marves best attribute was his ability to mold all the egos into a cohesive unit. The quality of our players on that team would have made many coaches very successful. There was nothing special for what he did with that group. One could say he underachieved for the personnel he had. Yes that seems strange with the super bowl run they had. A more talented coach could have should have won two of those games. I’ll add Ted Marchibroda was a large part of that groups success… Edited August 25, 2022 by Meatloaf63 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.