Hermes Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It still forces slot receivers to play the outside position and Kumerow to get increased reps…. Not a good thing…. Best solution is as you said in your last paragraph, sign Julio or someone like OBJ as a rental. So long as Josh is at the helm it's a non issue. We had a WR by the name of Robert Foster who went on a tear with Allen and has done nothing since. I personally thought he was the second coming of Moulds. Turns out QB play can make lesser talent appear better than they are Edited July 17, 2022 by Hermes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It still forces slot receivers to play the outside position and Kumerow to get increased reps…. Not a good thing…. Best solution is as you said in your last paragraph, sign Julio or someone like OBJ as a rental. We don’t really run an offense that needs a true X and a true Z. Although I guess that could change now with a new OC. I don’t think it’ll be much different. Edited July 17, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Crowder has had two 800+ yard seasons and is a career 48 yard per game receiver. That projects to 816 yards per 17 games. That figure was 58 yards per game in 2020.......which projects out to just shy of 1,000 yards in a 17 game season. A breakout season would have to begin at 50% above career average production, IMO...........it implies a very sudden, dramatic improvement above prior levels. I can't see him putting up 1200+ yards..........but I suppose it's a possibility. More likely that he would be a "bounce back" candidate where he stays healthy and puts up around 50 yards per game again. That's not a given, he showed little to no explosiveness last year and his YAC subsequently fell off a cliff, but it's certainly a possibility if the nagging leg injuries subside. 50 ypg would be excellent but doesn't sound as good as hyperbolizing by mischaracterizing it as a "breakout", though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Huh? Sure we do… an injury to Diggs or Davis and/or Davis not living up to the hype results in a slot receiver playing outside and a below mediocre WR in Kumerow getting a lot more snaps… it would make the Bills WR group pretty pedestrian relative to the rest of the league. Shakir is not just a slot WR. He’s likely going to get plenty of time at the X and Z as depth. I think most teams 3rd and 4th X and Z WRs are pretty pedestrian. What teams have great depth outside? Can you name 10 teams with good depth at the X and Z wr positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Hermes said: So long as Josh is at the helm it's a non issue. We had a WR by the name of Robert Foster who went on a tear with Allen and has done nothing since. I personally thought he was the second coming of Moulds. Turns out QB play can make lesser talent appear better than they are Same with Peerless Price. For the first time in his pro career, he had over 1,000 yards receiving with Drew Bledsoe in 2002 (1,252). Then we tagged and trade him to Atlanta for a 1st. He never had 1,000 yards again. What a steal for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Shakir is not just a slot WR. He’s likely going to get plenty of time at the X and Z as depth. I think most teams 3rd and 4th X and Z WRs are pretty pedestrian. What teams have great depth outside? Can you name 10 teams with good depth at the X and Z wr positions? WR is one of the 3 most valuable position groups in the NFL today based on salary distribution to the best players. We aren't comparing the Bills to "most teams" anymore........this season is a SB window season where they are actually the Vegas favorite. If you are expecting to play for a title..........you better be juiced up at receiver...........and ESPECIALLY on the boundary. Slot's who can't matchup outside are a relative dime a dozen........that's how the Bills got a whole pack of them for about $4M in guarantees and a 5th round pick. Despite average height, Shakir is a small target due to 29" arms........about identical length to the arms of the 5'7" McKenzie...........so until proven otherwise he's just part of the group of guys in the slot that you hope to never have to run out there against legit boundary CB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, chongli said: Same with Peerless Price. For the first time in his pro career, he had over 1,000 yards receiving with Drew Bledsoe in 2002 (1,252). Then we tagged and trade him to Atlanta for a 1st. He never had 1,000 yards again. What a steal for us! The Peerless trade was more of a mutual disaster for both organizations. The Bills passing game dropped to the bottom of the league the next season and Josh Reed couldn't handle the pressure of being the #2 receiver replacing Price and was never right again. The Bills tried to be thrifty signing Bobby Shaw to replace Price. They used the pick they acquired on Willis McGahee..........who had to sit out a season........when they already had a 1,000 yard RB. Nothing but a f*cking shitstorm unfolded from that Price trade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The Peerless trade was more of a mutual disaster for both organizations. The Bills passing game dropped to the bottom of the league the next season and Josh Reed couldn't handle the pressure of being the #2 receiver replacing Price and was never right again. The Bills tried to be thrifty signing Bobby Shaw to replace Price. They used the pick they acquired on Willis McGahee..........who had to sit out a season........when they already had a 1,000 yard RB. Nothing but a f*cking shitstorm unfolded from that Price trade. I had forgotten about 2003...and for good reason! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: But the assertion is still that Davis has put on 17 pounds in the past two offseasons...........which is a lot for a WR either way. If he hadn't been limited by a nagging foot injury for the first 10 games or so last season(per Bills shill Sal Capaccio).........or if he'd proven he can be a star at that weight like DK Metcalf has......... it would be easier to totally dismiss the impact of adding 10 pounds one offseason and 7 the next. Getting heavier generally doesn't make you quicker or faster. That's the reality. Veterans with mileage on them, like LeSean McCoy when he was in Buffalo, will cut weight to try to maintain those attributes. My biggest concern with Davis is not physical though..........just whether he can handle the mental jump to being a #2 WR...........which is essentially being a 1B option in a league with this much WR talent and CB depth spread around the league compared to a decade ago. Davis has had some inconsistent stretches and subsequently modest production. Not as serious as Knox with regard to catching targets, but still things like inopportune drops that make you wonder if he is susceptible to the yips/slumps. Diggs, for example, doesn't have a 3 catch on 14 targets day against a lowly Jets team that has one foot on the bus. Can Davis handle the pressure of being a focal point of the defense (and fans and media)..........and can he also bring his "A" game to low spotlight games like last seasons Jets and Jags game(critical drop late in that one). Whenever dealing with athletes who might be inclined to get in their own head too much.......I think it's always the best policy to have ACTUAL COMPETITION in house to move the focus outward. There was definitely a point last season when Davis and Allen were not on the same page. I kept interpreting that to mean that the myriad option routes in Daboll's offense were being misread by Davis against looks he hadn't had enough prep for (perhaps due to practice reps lost to injury?). That E-P passing game requires the QB and WR to be in lock-step with reading and reacting to defensive looks and leverages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: WR is one of the 3 most valuable position groups in the NFL today based on salary distribution to the best players. We aren't comparing the Bills to "most teams" anymore........this season is a SB window season where they are actually the Vegas favorite. If you are expecting to play for a title..........you better be juiced up at receiver...........and ESPECIALLY on the boundary. Slot's who can't matchup outside are a relative dime a dozen........that's how the Bills got a whole pack of them for about $4M in guarantees and a 5th round pick. Despite average height, Shakir is a small target due to 29" arms........about identical length to the arms of the 5'7" McKenzie...........so until proven otherwise he's just part of the group of guys in the slot that you hope to never have to run out there against legit boundary CB's. Most teams don’t have a player on the bench they can plug in as a WR1. The last couple Super Bowl teams had the unique opportunity to add legit WRs as depth during the season. No one will complain if the Bills add WR depth. There aren’t many that come off the bench and can impact. I don’t think you’ve ever actually stated a plan for WR. What exactly were the Bills options at WR? Allen Robinson? That wasn’t happening. Are you specifically talking about the draft? I don’t really know what you’re saying they should’ve done? Julio Jones and Will Fuller are available. Will Fuller is intriguing to me because we don’t have anyone like him. TY Hilton and Desean Jackson are also available. DeDe Westbrook. Are any of these players seriously changing our Super Bowl chances? Add depth, no one will complain. But reality is no one is replacing Diggs if he goes down. Sure, short arm WRs tend to be slot. Yes Shakir has shorter than average arms. I personally don’t think it matters too much in todays game. He’s stocky built WR. Most WRs are long and lean. I don’t think it’ll be the reason he can’t play outside. He’s a great contested catch WR. If his arms were 30.5” instead of 29 it really wouldn’t change much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 On 7/13/2022 at 12:30 PM, SWATeam said: Seems bizarre that they only have two legitimate outside WR's on this roster, and then like 5 potential slots. Seems risky to me, but maybe they have a plan to add someone else. Well only one id consider a true slot is Crowder. The rest all are very capable of playing both inside and outside. McDermott and Beane love versatility in their depth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonley1180 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 %93 conversion rate when targeted on 3rd down... Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Kmart128 said: Well only one id consider a true slot is Crowder. Crowder took 2/3 of his snaps last year from the slot, 1/3 elsewhere. He will be our primary slot for sure but in a pinch he can play outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Haven’t you asked me which WR groups I’d take over the Bills before? Putting more emphasis on the position IMO…. I would’ve preferred a WR in the first few rounds over RB and certainly LB. And I’ve said a bunch of times it’s not about depth. People worried about WR aren’t sold on Gabriel Davis. Cincinnati fans likely aren’t worrying about whose the X and Z behind Chase and Higgins. Edited July 18, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 21 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Crowder has had two 800+ yard seasons and is a career 48 yard per game receiver. That projects to 816 yards per 17 games. That figure was 58 yards per game in 2020.......which projects out to just shy of 1,000 yards in a 17 game season. A breakout season would have to begin at 50% above career average production, IMO...........it implies a very sudden, dramatic improvement above prior levels. I can't see him putting up 1200+ yards..........but I suppose it's a possibility. More likely that he would be a "bounce back" candidate where he stays healthy and puts up around 50 yards per game again. That's not a given, he showed little to no explosiveness last year and his YAC subsequently fell off a cliff, but it's certainly a possibility if the nagging leg injuries subside. 50 ypg would be excellent but doesn't sound as good as hyperbolizing by mischaracterizing it as a "breakout", though. Crowder never had Josh Allen throwing him the football. I'm excited to see what he brings to the table with Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Crowder never had Josh Allen throwing him the football. I'm excited to see what he brings to the table with Josh Yeah I'm sure he'd be disappointed if he didn't get back to his 2020 form, stay healthy and put up close to 1,000 yards............that's why he came to Buffalo........to rebuild his stock in a dynamic offense in 2022 and get back on the market. Crowder is a more talented, higher pedigree player than Cole Beasley.........his stock is just down due to injuries. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: And I’ve said a bunch of times it’s not about depth. People worried about WR aren’t sold on Gabriel Davis. Cincinnati fans likely aren’t worrying about whose the X and Z behind Chase and Higgins. Its true that most teams aren’t 3 deep on the outside with stud talent, but most here aren’t concerned we don’t have a proven outside WR3.. Most are concerned that we have no outside WR3. Kumerow - Special Teams / Emergency Depth Crowder - Slot McKenzie - Slot Maybe Shakir projects outside? Edited July 18, 2022 by SCBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Haven’t you asked me which WR groups I’d take over the Bills before? Putting more emphasis on the position IMO…. I would’ve preferred a WR in the first few rounds over RB and certainly LB. But which Wr would we have taken in rd 2 over cook? The 2nd rd run on WRs crushed any hope of a 2nd rd wr imo. I had Shakir as the top rated WR when we picked in rd 2. i agree….. I would’ve preferred WR over RB, but any WR at that point would’ve been a huge reach imo. Cook is basically a WR and will be used more in the passing game than in the running game imo. 46 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: And I’ve said a bunch of times it’s not about depth. People worried about WR aren’t sold on Gabriel Davis. Cincinnati fans likely aren’t worrying about whose the X and Z behind Chase and Higgins. I’m sold on Davis. I’m not sold on our depth. The Bengals fans will start worrying about their depth if one of them are injured. Promise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, SCBills said: Its true that most teams aren’t 3 deep on the outside with stud talent, but most here aren’t concerned we don’t have a proven outside WR3.. Most are concerned that we have no outside WR3. Kumerow - Special Teams Crowder - Slot McKenzie - Slot Maybe Shakir projects outside? All we can do is wait and see. Everyone posting here knows what’s at WR. The Bills know what’s at WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 7/17/2022 at 9:00 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said: And I’ve said a bunch of times it’s not about depth. People worried about WR aren’t sold on Gabriel Davis. Cincinnati fans likely aren’t worrying about whose the X and Z behind Chase and Higgins. Cinci fans don't have to worry.........Tyler Boyd has averaged 935 yards receiving the past 4 seasons and didn't drop a single pass all regular season on his way to 828 yards as their 3rd receiver option. You couldn't have made a worse choice to make an example of. Shows how much you follow the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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