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Epenesa, Ford & Moss -Are they outta here?


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On 6/24/2022 at 8:08 AM, Logic said:

The Athletic ran a Bills fan survey last year. One of the questions asked “who will lead the Bills backfield in carries?”. The majority of fans voted Zack Moss.

 

One injury plagued letdown of a season — in which, according to Beane, Moss could not cut off his left foot at all — and Bills fans have completely given up on him.
 

Funny, I remember just prior to last season, when most Bills fans had pretty much given up on Singletary, too.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it: Moss is going to have a bounceback season. He’s fully healthy, in great shape, and Aaron Kromer is going to improve the run blocking of our offensive line and shift it to more zone running, which suits Moss’ skill set.

 

I’m not saying he’s gonna be an All-Pro, but he’s gonna play productive snaps for this offense.

 

Ford is a bust. I’m done with him.

 

I’m not expecting much from Epenesa either, and I largely blame the coaching staff’s stupid plan to turn a power rusher into a speed rusher. They should have never asked him to do that. If they didn’t like what he was in college, they shouldn’t have drafted him.



So far, looks like I was correct about Moss and Ford, and wrong about Epenesa.

Of course, the preseason will tell us a lot more. But I'm hearing positive things about Moss and Epenesa, and haven't heard a single positive thing about Ford. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 5:38 AM, GunnerBill said:

I think Ford is probably on the outside of the 53 looking in as we are sitting here today. They have the presumed starting 5: Dawkins, Saffold, Morse, Bates, Brown and then their top tackle depth (Quess), their top interior depth (Van Roten) and their specialist center backup (which at the moment I'd say is Mancz). That leaves probably 1 spot and I think they are more interested in continuing to develop Doyle than Ford at this point. 

 

Moss and AJE would not be shocking cuts, but I expect both to make the 53 as we sit here today. 

I think Doyle has shown better than Ford.

This may be lacking in intelligence, but I believe Moss may have some trade value.  I am not saying how much, but some.  

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5 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It's probably because of his smallish size, it helps with quickness but why he can't really finish and easily gets tossed aside by NFL lineman.

 

Sadly reminds me a lot of Aaron Maybin and why he was a complete bust other than one season with Rex Ryan and the Jets when he had 6 sacks as an OLB/situation pass rusher.

 

Bottom line is NFL DE's need both size and quickness.

 

Oh my.... I don't think I'd go quite that far. While I acknowledge AJ hasn't produced as hoped up to this point and is possibly close to that "now or never" point this season, I don't think he's Maybin type disappointment. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 7:05 AM, H2o said:

I think it's more likely that Ford and Moss are sent packing before Epenesa. I partly blame our staff for having Epenesa drop so much weight. I think instead of using him for his strengths, while gradually bringing along his weight loss, the shock to his system has hampered his development. He also had his first offseason going into his rookie year be the Covid offseason. Basically, at this point, he's like a 2nd year player. Ford has been atrocious imo. Couldn't stick at RT and he can't stick at G. I don't think he really fits the Kromer mold either because he's a slow and lumbering type of OL'man. If he doesn't get cut or traded for peanuts I'll be shocked. Moss is a tougher call. He was meh his rookie year, was supposedly hampered last year due to lingering effects from an ankle injury, and Moss was also part of that same 2020 draft class. The RB room is deep this year, but no one outside of Moss can fill that same power RB mold. It will be a heated camp battle for that group, but I think Beane and McDermott will keep him over Duke Johnson. 

Moss will stay!

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I think Ford will make it. They'll likely keep at least 9 OL. Dawkins, Morse, Saffold, Bates, Brown, Doyle, and Quessenberry are all locks. Mancz and Ford will round out that group. Who is going to beat him out, Van Roten?

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14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I think Ford will make it. They'll likely keep at least 9 OL. Dawkins, Morse, Saffold, Bates, Brown, Doyle, and Quessenberry are all locks. Mancz and Ford will round out that group. Who is going to beat him out, Van Roten?

 

Lol, I don't see why he couldn't. 

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5 hours ago, Logic said:

So far, looks like I was correct about Moss and Ford, and wrong about Epenesa.

Of course, the preseason will tell us a lot more. But I'm hearing positive things about Moss and Epenesa, and haven't heard a single positive thing about Ford. 

Lots of praise for Epenesa so far in camp, and he has shown flashes in the past. There's no way he isn't making the team.

 

Moss is likely the 3rd RB, and that's fine with me. But maybe Duke Johnson wins the job.

 

Ford may not be a quality starter, but he is decent depth, and he has been getting First-Team reps with others being out with injuries. I see no reason to cut him when he is decent depth who can come in and play at RG or RT if they need him to. Yes, you don't want him as a starter, but you can do a lot worse as a backup. It's not like he has never had a decent game in a Bills uniform. He has. If he gets coached up, he could be fine.

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I have a little bit of a different viewpoint on this I don’t know what’s gonna happen to these three players but if your bill‘s fans you want them to pan out you really want to bring along your own players and re-sign your own players because it means that your draft reasoning is working sometimes it doesn’t always work out but I hope that they do pan out

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5 hours ago, MJS said:

Lots of praise for Epenesa so far in camp, and he has shown flashes in the past. There's no way he isn't making the team.

They praised AJ last year too. They said he was a beast and made big improvements etc. Its all smoke, the guy is slow, hes not a power rusher, has no moves and is stiff as a board. Im sure hes a nice guy, but hes not an NFL caliber starting DE.

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6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I think Ford will make it. They'll likely keep at least 9 OL. Dawkins, Morse, Saffold, Bates, Brown, Doyle, and Quessenberry are all locks. Mancz and Ford will round out that group. Who is going to beat him out, Van Roten?

 

I am surprised we haven't heard anything about Van Roten because going in, yes, I'd have had him pretty firmly pencilled in as my 9th. But even with the injuries up front not heard a peep. I know the media have to be careful about saying who is lining up where but can anyone who has attended camp shed any light on whether he has got any work with the 1s? 

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AJ was a 5 star, and was very productive at iowa.  I wonder if he's naturally gifted but low motivation (like star, who had just shocking talent coming out of college) or is just missing a few pieces of the puzzle.

 

either way, i think some of the DL who were brought in were brought in largely to push him and other young linemen towards improving, which makes me think there are motivation and focus issues at least to some extent.

 

i think aj has a 30% chance to work out, moss 20% and ford 5%

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I think all three are safe.  Various reports say Moss is having a good camp.  AJ still has 2 years on his rookie deal although this is a big year for him.  I could see Ford getting traded at cut down.  Bills might want to keep Luke Tenuta as their 9th OL especially if they don't think they could stash him on practice squad.

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21 minutes ago, colin said:

AJ was a 5 star, and was very productive at iowa.  I wonder if he's naturally gifted but low motivation (like star, who had just shocking talent coming out of college) or is just missing a few pieces of the puzzle.

 

 

I think it is that he was a power rusher in college and the Bills have tried to turn him into a totally different player in the pros and want him to be a speed rusher. It is the only reason why I am not yet ready to write AJ off because while it is year 3, it is basically year 2 of trying to be this guy. If he doesn't work out I think some of that is on the Bills. 

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30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is that he was a power rusher in college and the Bills have tried to turn him into a totally different player in the pros and want him to be a speed rusher. It is the only reason why I am not yet ready to write AJ off because while it is year 3, it is basically year 2 of trying to be this guy. If he doesn't work out I think some of that is on the Bills. 

 

could be, could be.  we must remember power = strength X speed.  he's not that strong/big, but has long arms and natural movement ability, and from the stats above, a pretty top notch reaction time.  maybe that's what the coaches saw and what motivated them to get him to come off the edge differently.

 

either way, he's short on moves and hasn't gotten many snaps in our rotation.

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First time poster - been reading for a few years. I'm from the St. Louis area. Was a pretty big Rams fan obviously but my love for them started to fade in the last few years before they moved to LA. A lot of St Louis people boycotted the NFL after the Rams left but I just wanted another team to root for. The Bills pretty quickly became my team. Not a total bandwagon fan but my love for the Bills has grown since they got Allen. I'm all in this year and will be taking the 3.5 hour drive to KC for that game in October and hoping to get to Buffalo for a game a few weeks after that.

 

I personally think the hype in Moss' camp is to 1) light a fire under Singeltary and Cook and 2) showcase him for other teams and maybe steal a late draft pick for him. Maybe I'm wrong there and he's probably a good depth guy to have throughout a long season (hopefully 20-21 games) but he just seems like a guy who can't quite put it together on gameday

 

I watched AJ a lot in high school. Not sure he's the big schematic fit but I still haven't totally given up on him.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is that he was a power rusher in college and the Bills have tried to turn him into a totally different player in the pros and want him to be a speed rusher. It is the only reason why I am not yet ready to write AJ off because while it is year 3, it is basically year 2 of trying to be this guy. If he doesn't work out I think some of that is on the Bills. 

I think this is right.  BBB seemed to express some regret that the Bills could not manage his weight loss during the summer of 2020 due to COVID restrictions and suggested that this hindered his readiness for his rookie season.  The Bills' players are regularly showing big year 3 improvements and I would not exclude AJ from this at all.  He has looked to me like a player that needed to develop more upper body strength to compete with the bigger bodied OL on a regular basis.

 

As far as the change in body type, I think back to his poor combine testing and how it hurt his draft stock.  I'd bet his athletic score would be much better now (sure would be worth knowing) and the Bills seemed to have a plan for him from the get go.  Important year for AJ.

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