Bills OTAs

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is, again, looking at team building in a vacuum. Look at the offseason in context of what we lost from last year:

 

Major defensive losses:

-Starting CB (not to mention White still recovering from an ACL tear)

-2 starting edge rushers

-2 starting/rotational DTs

 

Major offensive losses:

-Starting/rotational outside WR

-Starting slot WR

-Starting guard

 

If you rewind the roster to just before free agency we literally wouldn't have been able to field a starting defense. The starting offense would have still been okay, albeit quite thin at a couple positions. The two biggest needs by far were pass rusher and CB. Both positions were already needs during the season and got worse. It was obvious then that the defense was going to need major investments to keep it in the top tier, and that's what Beane did. The offense needed gaps filled in and ideally one dynamic playmaker added, and that's what Beane did.

 

Basically both sides of the team added players to fill every hole that was lost in the offseason, and both sides got one luxury player added in the draft - Cook for the offense, Bernard for the defense. So it was actually an even distribution of investment when you consider what the offense and defense needed to compete at a championship level.

 

It was an even distribution of investment on both offense and defense?   LOL that's ridiculous.

 

First you've taken a VERY subjective, fact-free assessment of losses.

 

In reality.......they lost a near identical amount on both sides of the ball..........3102 snaps on D to 3042 on offense.

 

Major defensive losses:

-Levi Wallace........994 snaps.

- Two ROTATIONAL edge rushers.........Hughes played 550 snaps and Addison played just 482.......Rousseau had the second most snaps on the edge(530) not Addison.

- Three ROTATIONAL DT's..........Phillips played 474 snaps and Lotulelei just 317 and Vernon Butler played 285.

 

Major offensive losses:

- Starting boundary receiver........Sanders played 747 snaps

- Starting slot receiver........Beasley played 691 snaps

- Starting OG/RT and a rotational guard........Williams played 1172 snaps Jon Feliciano 442 snaps.

 

The quality of players they've added on offense is much lower than what they've added on defense.

 

Now you could say they played less snaps on defense.........I'm sure that's so..........but that's kind of my point.........they already had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL and they not only replaced their losses........they used their top 2 chips in UFA and their 5th #1 pick on D in 7 opportunities to improve that side of the ball.    

 

The offense,  particularly the OL and the lack of speed at receiver,  was filled with LESS productive players than those that left.........or not at all in the case of Sanders position.

 

And I'd add that the Bills had more in reserve on defense to start the offseason with too.   Dane Jackson proved to be a solid starter and Tre White is on schedule to return so there might not have even been a starting spot for Levi in 2022.   Boogie Basham was a 2020 second round pick who they couldn't even find snaps for so one of those rotational DE's had to go whether they inked Miller or not.   There wasn't comparable pedigree/track record in reserve and under contract to replace departing talent on offense.  Bates was about all they had in reserve on offense and he wasn't under contract.......he accounts for more than 1/3 of the guaranteed money they spent on free agents/draft picks on offense.

 

It's not complicated:

 

$90M > $25M ...........3x the investment in UFA and 3x the investment in the draft.  

 

 It really isn't justified to suggest that it wasn't decidedly lopsided.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Does it suck?   Nobody can legitimately argue that I don't offer a lot of well supported football opinions.   I back up what I say and my objective is to promote discussion.

 

But in lieu of people wanting to actually discuss football topics........the board needs its villains.  

 

If Scott and I weren't around it would be someone like you getting personally attacked and straw manned because you have learned to "dabble" in reality at least.    I don't think you could take that.......I've seen how you react to the extremely mild criticism you get........it would bruise the homer inside you.

 

Scott and I have clearly identified roles.........people attack him and he doesn't give them the satisfaction of returning their vitriol.   Which makes them angrier and in some cases, like Donny Two-ply......it gives them SOMETHING to contribute to the board.

 

I give their snark right back to them and then some.......and laugh.......which hurts their feelings.   If they can't take it or if they start jumping into football discussions to vaguely air their personal grievances with me,  I block them.  Which makes them follow my posts even closer.   That's how this works.    

 

The board can't be split 50/50 between folks who just drink the kool aid and those who are waiting for the glass to fill up first........but it wouldn't be very entertaining if it was a complete circle jerk.  

 

   

Yes, it sucks that you’re a douche.  Maybe not for you, but for the TBD community.   Imo, your contrasting opinions to this board would be viewed as positive if you possessed the proper tact to reply to opinions that you disagree with.  Instead, you choose to employ personal attacks in attempt to draw more reaction and continue the pissing match.  Your intent is obvious to me the majority of the time.  

 

Yes, it sucks that you’re a douche, because you could be a positive pillar of this community.  You could shed some light on those that don’t have the correct understanding of certain topics and talking points.  I read some of your posts, agreeing with what you are saying…..and usually end up rolling my eyes because you lack the self control to keep the conversation civil, instead, preferring to focus on making personal attacks to continue the reaction and personal attacks.

 

Are you married?
 

Regarding your thoughts about me as a person, thanks for the feedback.  

 

[ColoradoBills]

Now it's about money spent.

 

Per Spotrac Bills Cap Spending

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/positional/2022/full-cap/

Offense:  $99.2M

Defense:  $107.2M

Special Teams:  $4.2M

 

The area that the Bills "overspend" on defense is in the Secondary (3rd highest in the league).

Taking in the consideration that the Bills have 3 high paid veterans in the secondary it looks pretty even to me.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It was an even distribution of investment on both offense and defense?

 

Yes. Because when you're talking about investment you have to start with what's already there. If you were going to condense the goal of every team in every offseason into a single statement it would be something like "Build the offensive and defensive personnel to be championship caliber." The offense finished the season as a championship caliber offense. No it wasn't perfect, nothing ever is. Anyone with a pair of eyes that watched the Bills in the playoffs will tell you the same. The defense clearly was not championship caliber. I don't care about the rankings. If we had ultimately won the Super Bowl last year it would have been because Josh Allen and the offense dragged the rest of the team there. So that's where the offense and defense finished the season.

 

Then in the offseason the defense lost more, period. Your own snap count numbers make that clear. The Bills offense had 120 more snaps than the defense in the regular season last year. That's cute of you to throw in Feliciano's 442 snaps in favor of your point. Greg Van Roten alone replaces him. Obviously when I mentioned "major losses" I was referring to players that require more than vet minimum investments to replace. So let's take out Feliciano and Butler. Now it's 2,817 snaps lost for the defense compared to 2,600 snaps lost for the offense, even though the offense played 120 more snaps total. And that's before taking into account that the defensive players share snaps much more than the offensive players do. Yeah I feel pretty confident saying the defense took a much further step back at the start of the offseason when they were already less talented to begin with.

 

And here's something I mentioned earlier in the thread that you never bothered responding to - Josh Allen represents the single greatest investment on the team. Every single offseason for the duration of his career the offense will already be 2/3 of the way to championship caliber because he is on the team. So every single offseason the defense will need more added than the offense to even out the total investment distribution. The fundamental flaw of this whole discussion is that we're talking about offense building and defense building as if they're equivalent. They're not. The offense revolves around a single position. Once you have that position filled with an elite player you inherently don't have to add as much around him to have an elite offense. That's not to say zero investment is needed. An offense with an elite QB still needs a true #1 WR, a franchise LT, and a decent supporting cast on the o-line and skill positions to fill in the gaps. But the Bills started the offseason with all of that already in hand. Defenses don't revolve around a single man, and require more depth especially on the d-line.

 

Just for fun imagine the Bills offense as of March 15 playing against the Bills defense on the same day. Even assuming Tre White is fully recovered and back to his exact level of elite play that game would be a laugher. You know in your heart this is true. Which means you have to accept that the defense started the offseason at a much lower level of talent.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by HappyDays

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, it sucks that you’re a douche.  Maybe not for you, but for the TBD community.   Imo, your contrasting opinions to this board would be viewed as positive if you possessed the proper tact to reply to opinions that you disagree with.  Instead, you choose to employ personal attacks in attempt to draw more reaction and continue the pissing match.  Your intent is obvious to me the majority of the time.  

 

Yes, it sucks that you’re a douche, because you could be a positive pillar of this community.  You could shed some light on those that don’t have the correct understanding of certain topics and talking points.  I read some of your posts, agreeing with what you are saying…..and usually end up rolling my eyes because you lack the self control to keep the conversation civil, instead, preferring to focus on making personal attacks to continue the reaction and personal attacks.

 

Are you married?
 

Regarding your thoughts about me as a person, thanks for the feedback.  

 

 

 

You are dead wrong about me being able to offer the expanded, objective opinions that I do and not be attacked and loathed by some.

 

You guys wear on those people and run them off.   It's nearly inevitable.   That's why there are so, so few glass-not-full or objective contributors here.

 

Think of all the content someone like Lori provided here........she did it without returning fire and just one day decided that was enough of the excessively negative feedback.    Same with more recent departures like Bandit.   I could go on.......it's a long list of folks who just don't find the discussion worth the hate-back.   Most of the people I know personally from tailgating etc.. on this board gave up posting a long time ago but still read or moderate etc..

 

In general there are just too many insecure, miserable people who feel first and think later online..... just because they CAN.

 

As the saying goes.........those that think see life as a comedy........those that feel see it as a tragedy.  

 

I'm a person who doesn't take much seriously.

 

 I don't get furious about attacks on me.........I laugh and give it back and then some.   That's how I deal with snark and that's the only reason I'm still here contributing.

 

Take a look at this branch of the discussion.   I've offered actual facts, stats and historical perspective.    The replies?  Evasive and HIGHLY subjective.....stat-free, fact free.  It should be embarrassing to those people,  but it's not.  Because they are online.

 

I've always said I wouldn't post anything here that I wouldn't say to that person at a tailgate...........and it's true.   But IRL it would never get that far because when you know me you know I'm not saying things about the Buffalo Bills to offend anyone.   I joke with my friends about their BS and I take return abuse just fine.

 

As for me being married?   Yes.  And no,  I LITERALLY never fight with her because I think first before I emote.   Does that tell you something?  I also have 5 kids.   How many do you have and what would that tell someone about you?   It would tell me nothing of import about your character, btw.

 

As for me saying you would be too thin-skinned to handle the criticism I or Scott get........your reaction only supports that.   You'd join the list of people whose contribution would be missed.   Think of me as helping keep you here.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I've never heard him say that. He thinks Davis has been injury prone, which is true, and that he is unproven as a consistent and reliable threat despite some individual spectacular days. I like Davis, but I would have preferred a bigger investment at outside speed receiver with size. 

He doesn’t trust that Davis will be a good WR2. It’s that simple. Why he doesn’t trust Davis doesn’t matter, he doesn’t trust him.
 

Davis has developed into this role. When you have a player like that there comes a time you allow him to get more opportunities. He’s earned it. 
 

 

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The offense,  particularly the OL and the lack of speed at receiver,  was filled with LESS productive players than those that left.........or not at all in the case of Sanders position.

 

You made this point somewhere up thread, and I think in some cases you’re removing context from numbers. For example, you’ve brought up Beasley’s “production” vs Crowders. And yes, Beasley had more production Last season than Crowder. 
 

But in context, that’s not an fair comparison. Beasley is one of several vet WRs to have their career best seasons with Allen throwing them the ball. 
 

IMO, a more accurate comparison is to look at the two WR’s production before arriving in Buffalo, and Beasley’s and Crowder’s production in their seasons prior were very similar. The bigger difference was that Beasley was in Dallas with Tony Romo, and then Dak Prescott, while Crowder was on two crap teams with a string of pedestrian QBs. 
 

If Crowder is given Beasley’s role, it’s not unreasonable to expect Crowder to have a more productive ‘22 than Beasley’s ‘21.
 

And that would be an upgrade, no?

[Royale with Cheese]

LOL at this thread.  Proving their “manliness” in long paragraphs. 

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Rocky Landing said:

You made this point somewhere up thread, and I think in some cases you’re removing context from numbers. For example, you’ve brought up Beasley’s “production” vs Crowders. And yes, Beasley had more production Last season than Crowder. 
 

But in context, that’s not an fair comparison. Beasley is one of several vet WRs to have their career best seasons with Allen throwing them the ball. 
 

IMO, a more accurate comparison is to look at the two WR’s production before arriving in Buffalo, and Beasley’s and Crowder’s production in their seasons prior were very similar. The bigger difference was that Beasley was in Dallas with Tony Romo, and then Dak Prescott, while Crowder was on two crap teams with a string of pedestrian QBs. 
 

If Crowder is given Beasley’s role, it’s not unreasonable to expect Crowder to have a more productive ‘22 than Beasley’s ‘21.
 

And that would be an upgrade, no?

100% accurate.  But it won't change his mind, until he sees it...even then who knows.  Crowder is more explosive with ball in his hands, can also play outside in a pinch.  Although, I think Shakir will be the top backup outside.  

 

I still don't get the opinions some have about this skill group, it's top 5 in the NFL.  A bunch of weird anxiety about losing Beas, who clearly lost a step or 2, and Manny Sanders who ran hot/cold during the season.   We were a better/more explosive offense when Davis and McKenzie were both on the field.  Not to mention Motor was improving, which I think was a playcalling issue all season long (balanced attack and type of run/blocking schemes).

 

Now, add in Crowder, Cook, Shakir, and Howard...I am lost on what these posters wanted? Who did they want to sign or draft?  It would have put Davis on the bench, maybe that's what this comes down to.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It was an even distribution of investment on both offense and defense?   LOL that's ridiculous.

 

First you've taken a VERY subjective, fact-free assessment of losses.

 

In reality.......they lost a near identical amount on both sides of the ball..........3102 snaps on D to 3042 on offense.

 

Major defensive losses:

-Levi Wallace........994 snaps.

- Two ROTATIONAL edge rushers.........Hughes played 550 snaps and Addison played just 482.......Rousseau had the second most snaps on the edge(530) not Addison.

- Three ROTATIONAL DT's..........Phillips played 474 snaps and Lotulelei just 317 and Vernon Butler played 285.

 

Major offensive losses:

- Starting boundary receiver........Sanders played 747 snaps

- Starting slot receiver........Beasley played 691 snaps

- Starting OG/RT and a rotational guard........Williams played 1172 snaps Jon Feliciano 442 snaps.

 

The quality of players they've added on offense is much lower than what they've added on defense.

 

Now you could say they played less snaps on defense.........I'm sure that's so..........but that's kind of my point.........they already had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL and they not only replaced their losses........they used their top 2 chips in UFA and their 5th #1 pick on D in 7 opportunities to improve that side of the ball.    

 

The offense,  particularly the OL and the lack of speed at receiver,  was filled with LESS productive players than those that left.........or not at all in the case of Sanders position.

 

And I'd add that the Bills had more in reserve on defense to start the offseason with too.   Dane Jackson proved to be a solid starter and Tre White is on schedule to return so there might not have even been a starting spot for Levi in 2022.   Boogie Basham was a 2020 second round pick who they couldn't even find snaps for so one of those rotational DE's had to go whether they inked Miller or not.   There wasn't comparable pedigree/track record in reserve and under contract to replace departing talent on offense.  Bates was about all they had in reserve on offense and he wasn't under contract.......he accounts for more than 1/3 of the guaranteed money they spent on free agents/draft picks on offense.

 

It's not complicated:

 

$90M > $25M ...........3x the investment in UFA and 3x the investment in the draft.  

 

 It really isn't justified to suggest that it wasn't decidedly lopsided.

 

 

I’m trying to figure out where the $90 million and $25 million numbers come from?

Before I comment on the rest what exactly was your plan?

Edited June 19, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m trying to figure out where the $90 million and $25 million numbers come from?

Before I comment on the rest what exactly was your plan?

I asked the same thing up thread, he's counting the rookie class. 

 

Which I think doesn't even add up.  Von makes up $51m of the so called $90m, as well.  

 

I liked your post showing cap hits, Off vs Def, best way to show what we invested for this upcoming season at least.

[Rico]

15 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

You made this point somewhere up thread, and I think in some cases you’re removing context from numbers. For example, you’ve brought up Beasley’s “production” vs Crowders. And yes, Beasley had more production Last season than Crowder. 
 

But in context, that’s not an fair comparison. Beasley is one of several vet WRs to have their career best seasons with Allen throwing them the ball. 
 

IMO, a more accurate comparison is to look at the two WR’s production before arriving in Buffalo, and Beasley’s and Crowder’s production in their seasons prior were very similar. The bigger difference was that Beasley was in Dallas with Tony Romo, and then Dak Prescott, while Crowder was on two crap teams with a string of pedestrian QBs. 
 

If Crowder is given Beasley’s role, it’s not unreasonable to expect Crowder to have a more productive ‘22 than Beasley’s ‘21.
 

And that would be an upgrade, no?

Beasley left because more than anything he was no longer a good locker room fit. Cutting him saved the team $6.1M.

 

Crowder left because one of the worst teams in the NFL wanted to upgrade from him. He was signed for 1 year, $2M. Bills took a flyer on a potential replacement that was dirt cheap.

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Again, Davis still has a lot to prove… he’s been mostly inconsistent throughout the entirety of his career…. 
 

No idea if Crowder is an upgrade, he struggled on a bad Jets team last season. 
 

By all accounts Howard looks like a shell of himself in mini camp. 

 

I don’t think it’s a top 5 skills position unit. Probably middle of the pack IMO.

 

Maybe. But I think Diggs is Diggs, Knox is going to get even better, and Cook may bring something to the table. Above all though, I think Josh is the best QB in the league, #1 with a bullet. They will look a whole lot better than middle-if-the-pack.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Rico said:

Beasley left because more than anything he was no longer a good locker room fit. Cutting him saved the team $6.1M.

 

Crowder left because one of the worst teams in the NFL wanted to upgrade from him. He was signed for 1 year, $2M. Bills took a flyer on a potential replacement that was dirt cheap.

I looked at the Crowder deal as him taking less here because he saw what Beasley did. Crowder was probably the 4th best slot WR on the market behind Kirk, JuJu, and Landry. Landry is the guy I think if the Bills waited until after the draft for a WR they probably go get Landry. I’m sure his price dropped a lot from the start of free agency.

 

OG was a position I liked in the draft. But neither Zion Johnson or Kenyon Green fell to our pick.  Skyy Moore didnt fall to us in the 2nd.

 

 I’m perfectly fine with what the Bills did on offense. 
 

We have lost 3 significant WRs the last couple years, John Brown, Sanders, and Beasley. A lot of snaps and production. All of them are unsigned today. Diggs, Brown, and Beasley all had career years in Buffalo. All became better in Buffalo. On the OL, Feliciano and Williams became better players in Buffalo. Williams is also on the street. 
 

 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You are dead wrong about me being able to offer the expanded, objective opinions that I do and not be attacked and loathed by some.

 

You guys wear on those people and run them off.   It's nearly inevitable.   That's why there are so, so few glass-not-full or objective contributors here.

 

Think of all the content someone like Lori provided here........she did it without returning fire and just one day decided that was enough of the excessively negative feedback.    Same with more recent departures like Bandit.   I could go on.......it's a long list of folks who just don't find the discussion worth the hate-back.   Most of the people I know personally from tailgating etc.. on this board gave up posting a long time ago but still read or moderate etc..

 

In general there are just too many insecure, miserable people who feel first and think later online..... just because they CAN.

 

As the saying goes.........those that think see life as a comedy........those that feel see it as a tragedy.  

 

I'm a person who doesn't take much seriously.

 

 I don't get furious about attacks on me.........I laugh and give it back and then some.   That's how I deal with snark and that's the only reason I'm still here contributing.

 

Take a look at this branch of the discussion.   I've offered actual facts, stats and historical perspective.    The replies?  Evasive and HIGHLY subjective.....stat-free, fact free.  It should be embarrassing to those people,  but it's not.  Because they are online.

 

I've always said I wouldn't post anything here that I wouldn't say to that person at a tailgate...........and it's true.   But IRL it would never get that far because when you know me you know I'm not saying things about the Buffalo Bills to offend anyone.   I joke with my friends about their BS and I take return abuse just fine.

 

As for me being married?   Yes.  And no,  I LITERALLY never fight with her because I think first before I emote.   Does that tell you something?  I also have 5 kids.   How many do you have and what would that tell someone about you?   It would tell me nothing of import about your character, btw.

 

As for me saying you would be too thin-skinned to handle the criticism I or Scott get........your reaction only supports that.   You'd join the list of people whose contribution would be missed.   Think of me as helping keep you here.

People don’t loathe you because of your opinions.  People loathe you because of the way you react to others opinions. 
 

Take Scott for example.  I like Scott.  I agree with many things he says.  I disagree with many things that he says.  More than anything, I feel bad for Scott that he usually has a pessimistic outlook on almost everything that he puts to paper on this site.  I hope, for his sake, that he doesn’t take this mantra into his everyday way of thinking.  I respect Scott a lot because he is rarely (if ever) makes personal attacks on other posters.  He harps on certain people he has debates with.  He never stops reiterating the same points over and over, even though everyone already knows he feels a certain way.  He’s annoying.  But in a cute, he’s just looking for attention kind of way.  You literally make personal attacks on posters that aren’t even involved in the conversation you’re having. 

 

From my vantage point, Scott is pessimist bills fan that is bored and enjoys the banter.   I feel that you enjoy getting under peoples skin, irritating and demeaning them.  You’re not much alike as people.   You say I’m dead wrong, I hope that I am.  
 

I’ve had my share of criticism over my 20 years here.  When I was younger and boozing 5 days a week, I’d react emotionally and I’d get personal.  As time has passed I feel that I’ve learned to take the high road in most debates that get personal more often than not.   A couple glasses of wine may contribute to me getting too personal from time to time, but overall, I feel that I’ve toned down a lot over the years.  
 

Happily married 5 years, together for 9.  No kids.  Never argue.  This discussion had me thinking what your disagreements with your family would be like.   I asked because I can’t recall you ever mentioning your wife here.  I’m sure you probably have, I must’ve missed it or forgotten.  I was under the impression that you had a handful of kids. 
 

good for you that you treat your family different than members of the board.  I realize that you get a lot of negative vitriol coming your way and responding in like would be a common reaction, but knowing that you’re an intelligent, very successful in life, husband, parent, possibly grandparent, it’s just confusing to me that you would carry yourself the way that you do here.  

 

in closing, I realize that there are several kool aid drinkers here, as there are for every team and in life in general.  We can predict what several posters are going to write before even before reading their posts.   From my experience here, you’re the guy that enjoys provoking, dispelling and antagonizing the kool aid drinkers more than doing anything else.  
 

I have respect for you, I’m just disappointed that you couldn’t be more like some of the other more respected members here in the way that they receive hate and opposing views.  It would better the community if you did,  but it’s probably too late for that.  

[Rocky Landing]

8 minutes ago, Rico said:

Beasley left because more than anything he was no longer a good locker room fit. Cutting him saved the team $6.1M.

 

Crowder left because one of the worst teams in the NFL wanted to upgrade from him. He was signed for 1 year, $2M. Bills took a flyer on a potential replacement that was dirt cheap.

Regardless of Beasley’s locker room fit (which is all conjecture, btw) his production fell off significantly (over 30%) with more targets. 
 

And Crowder’s average salary on the Jets was $9.5M. Of course he walked in FA. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Again, Davis still has a lot to prove… he’s been mostly inconsistent throughout the entirety of his career…. 
 

No idea if Crowder is an upgrade, he struggled on a bad Jets team last season. 
 

By all accounts Howard looks like a shell of himself in mini camp. 

 

I don’t think it’s a top 5 skills position unit. Probably middle of the pack IMO.

 

Allen and Diggs make it top 10. Davis has had inconsistent playing time. I’m not sure what you believe has been inconsistent about his game? He’s been clutch.

 

Crowder has durability concerns. An upgrade? I don’t know. He’s a legit weapon in the slot though.  
 

Our depth at WR is a concern. I wouldn’t be surprised if they add another veteran before camp. 

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

You made this point somewhere up thread, and I think in some cases you’re removing context from numbers. For example, you’ve brought up Beasley’s “production” vs Crowders. And yes, Beasley had more production Last season than Crowder. 
 

But in context, that’s not an fair comparison. Beasley is one of several vet WRs to have their career best seasons with Allen throwing them the ball. 
 

IMO, a more accurate comparison is to look at the two WR’s production before arriving in Buffalo, and Beasley’s and Crowder’s production in their seasons prior were very similar. The bigger difference was that Beasley was in Dallas with Tony Romo, and then Dak Prescott, while Crowder was on two crap teams with a string of pedestrian QBs. 
 

If Crowder is given Beasley’s role, it’s not unreasonable to expect Crowder to have a more productive ‘22 than Beasley’s ‘21.
 

And that would be an upgrade, no?

 

 

First:

 

The main reason Crowder's production is down is because he has averaged missing 4 games per season the past 4 years.    

 

Last season he was never right.........he missed 5 games with 2 separate injuries.........THEN had to exit the season finale against Buffalo injured.

 

After two down seasons and 9 games missed in that time.........Crowder was available for cheap for a reason........his ypa tumbling to 8.8 in 2021 is a red flag because he used to be a good ypa guy...........but whether he's diminished by all the injuries now or not, he's simply not been available enough.

 

Beasley was hurt all season too and it hurt his averages..........but he PLAYED and produced..........he was 18th in the NFL in receptions.

 

Second:

 

The idea that receivers are at a big disadvantage in terms of being able to produce if their QB isn't a superstar like Josh Allen(who was only the 24th most accurate passer in the NFL at 63%, fwiw) is not statistically supported.

 

DJ Moore put up 93 catches and almost 1200 yards with Sam and Cam, throwing him the ball, basically.

 

I really don't need to expand on that list of huge producers on badly QB'd teams.......there are plenty.

 

Crowder was one of them in 2019.........he had an absurd 27 targets in the 2 games against the Bills that season.

 

Crowder got 6 targets per game last season.........Beasley had 7.    They both caught about 70% of those throws and had woeful ypa's in the 8's..........but availability is the most important ability. 

[Rico]

14 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Regardless of Beasley’s locker room fit (which is all conjecture, btw) his production fell off significantly (over 30%) with more targets. 
 

And Crowder’s average salary on the Jets was $9.5M. Of course he walked in FA. 

They have one thing in common AFAIC: I had zero expectations for Beasley when he came here, and he ended up being a great Bill. I also have zero expectations for Crowder, and I would love to be surprised again.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Rico said:

They have one thing in common AFAIC: I had zero expectations for Beasley when he came here, and he ended up being a great Bill. I also have zero expectations for Crowder, and I would love to be surprised again.

Bills gave Beasley a decent contract. Crowder came here to get a decent contract next year.

 

One guy I think is going to surprise if given an opportunity is McKenzie. I think him and Allen have a thing.