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Trent McDuffie vs Kaiir Elam


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3 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

:wallbash:

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3 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

This is Cart before the Horse material right here... Some players enter the NFL playing way better then they ever did in college due to the talent around them. The dude has not played a day in the NFL. 

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Posted (edited)

You know, I read the OP and then went off to do something.  I just came back and planned to reply.  I decided I ought to read a few posts just to get the flavor of the thread before I wrote my post.   Hah!  Whatever it is that I thought didn't make sense in the OP, someone else has already said it.  It's been a while since an OP that sounded like something to talk about was so thoroughly shredded!  Great job! 

Edited by Shaw66
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4 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

Donald Trump Just Stay Calm GIFHopefully forever 

2 hours ago, Shake_My_Head said:

 

Sorry.  My arms are too short to type a response.

I spit up all over myself.  

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1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

everyone knows the real reason the genius moved back 8 picks in Rd 1 was to deflect criticism for taking a 3rd Team FCS player at 21

 

This.  Between the above and texting the wrong Brian...

 

And who posted that list of the (few) good CBs with sub-30" arms?

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I trust that Beane did his due diligence with Kaiir Elam.  I absolutely believe that his ceiling could be higher than McDuffies's.  He's longer and faster.  As long as Elam is willing, and all indications are that he is, tackling can be coached.

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6 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

 

Tre White was the 4th CB drafted in 2017 and is the best of the bunch.

 

'nuff said

 

Let Kansas City have the guy Buffalo wasn't choosing because of his tiny T-rex arms.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if McDuffie had a top-30 visit to the Bills.  If he did, did he bring his notebook?

 

Because Beane and McDermott were looking at that notebook Elam pulled out like Leopards looking at a fresh hunk of steak

 

FWIW Richard Sherman was quoted that the gaps in Elam's technique were all coachable/fixable

 

McDuffie didn't have a top 30 visit. They spoke to him at the Combine. 

 

We will never know for sure in all likelihood but I still don't believe he was ever going to be their pick. The arm length thing is big to the Bills for their scheme. In 6 years here they have been entirely consistent on their view of sub 30 inch arms for outside corners. They have never brought in anyone in 6 years with smaller arms. The ONLY example I could find of ANY corner they have signed with sub 30 inch arms was Leonard Johnson who was strictly their slot guy McDermott's first year. Despite him having a decent enough season on a play off team he was not brought back. They have drafted 3 late round corners in recent years.... all have 30 inch plus arms. They have brought in UDFAs at the spot... same applies. If they are not even willing to take late round fliers who don't meet the threshold then there is no way they were willing to breach it with their first round pick for me. The Bills have player specifications at every position of what they need for their scheme, and McDuffie didn't fit. 

 

 

Anyway @FFadpecr.... Carson Strong definitely going #9 to Seattle. What happened there?

Edited by GunnerBill
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Posted (edited)

They would’ve taken McDuffie 100% over Elam. The reason they wasted the 4th round pick is because McDuffie was just taken and they were at the very end of their first round grades. Elam was a contingency pick.

Edited by Airseven
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9 hours ago, Rigotz said:

My guess is we traded up when McDuffie was taken because there was a steep dropoff after Elam. I also think this has absolutely nothing to do with Belichick. He traded out because he wanted more picks… had zero to do with wanting the Bills to not get a specific corner - that’s insane.

 

Thank you!  Belichick has his own issues, to think that he's looking to orchestrate the Bills draft...by helping KC, another AFC rival, is just ludicrous.  At this stage of his career, the only validation for him is to win a SB w/o Brady.  How does "handing" a coveted player to another team at the top of the AFC help that?

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1 hour ago, Airseven said:

They would’ve taken McDuffie 100% over Elam. The reason they wasted the 4th round pick is because McDuffie was just taken and they were at the very end of their first round grades. Elam was a contingency pick.

@Airseven how can you possibly know that 100% they would have done anything unless you actually saw their board? I think there are several solid indicators that would imply that they wouldn’t.. no known top 30 visit .. the shorter arms … please note that I am not saying they would or would not have … but I do think that there is 100% certainty that you are guessing

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McDuffie 5'10'', 193 lb, arm 29 3/4, 40 time 4.44. vert jump 38.5

 

Elam 6'1 1/2'', 191 lb, arm, 30 7/8, 40 time 4.39. vert jump 37.5. Taller, faster, slightly longer arms.

 

Some sites had a 1st round higher grade on one or the other.

 

Elam has the NFL bloodlines as his father, Abram Elam played in the NFL. His uncle, Matt Elam was a first round NFL pick in 2013. 

 

If you listened to this kid he as he couldn't wait to get started studying, he brought his FSU, playbook, notebook with him to greet Bills FO/coaches. 

 

"Florida CB Kaiir Elam

Another potential first round target has emerged as a pre-draft visitor. Cover 1 reported on Wednesday that Kaiir Elam made a visit to Buffalo sometime during the window prospects could visit teams.

Elam, Dane Brugler’s No. 45 overall prospect, has been a late first round selection in multiple mock drafts. Elam recorded five interceptions and 20 passes defensed in three seasons at Florida."

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2022/04/buffalo-bills-2022-nfl-draft-top-30-visitor-tracker-cb-andrew-booth-jr-rb-james-cook-among-recent-visits.html

 

Cook also made a visit.

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I will not respond to the OP who threw a turd bomb and then disappeared again - sign of the great poster they are.  🤦‍♂️

 

What we know - Elam was brought in as a top 30 visit and close to the draft (meaning it is highly likely he was someone they were targeting).  McDuffie was not brought in and based upon history - that probably limits the likelihood he was the Bills primary target.

 

Elam has prototypical size, elite speed, was a willing tackler, but based upon Florida techniques taught - did not have good form.  He also has NFL pedigrees in his blood and obviously from the interview they showed - a desire to learn and get better and a want to recognize his weaknesses and eliminate them.

 

McDuffie lacked prototypical size - especially arm length, was a willing tackler with good speed.  
 

Finally - Elam excelled at Man coverage - especially press and has the size and speed to match up with anyone.  McDuffie was great in a mostly off zone scheme - good technique- read the play and make the tackle - similar to Wallace, but a better athlete.  The Bills early in the season with White healthy was playing more mixed coverage with White playing man and Wallace playing either zone or man depending on matchups.  They just could not trust Wallace alone as a man corner.
 

Therefore - to me everything points to Elam being the guy the Bills wanted.  The visit, the size, the speed, the pedigree, the technique- all point to that being the fit.  I think based upon what Beane said that they were looking to move up and the KC move just re-enforced that.  I think they wanted Elam and would have been ok with McDuffie or Gordon.

 

 

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14 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

It is?

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Belichick can't even get his own draft right. You think he is spending his time trying to trade up and down the draft board to screw the Bills?

 

This is one dumb conspiracy theory.

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