Trent McDuffie vs Kaiir Elam

[FFadpecr]

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

My take is they liked them both and fairly equally. I believe Beane decided we absolutely had to get one of them. We sat pat and let the board fall to us as long as both were on the board. The second McDuffie went, Beane sprung into action and started trying to move up. Beane said he tried to get 22 but couldn't do it and then ultimately pulled the trigger at 23.

 

I believe this is because he felt he absolutely couldn't risk someone moving in front of them at 23 or 24 and lose out on Elam too. If he preferred one over the other - it wasn't by much. If they liked McDuffie over Elam vastly more, they'd have traded up by pick 21 to secure him.

Edited May 10 by BillsFanForever19

[CNY315]

4 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player?

Of course it is. None of these kids have played a single NFL down yet. 

[CNYfan]

we will see if it works out better than the Talib v. McElvin issue of years ago

[Mat68]

2 differant styles.  Buffalo played man the 8th most last season.  Thinking Mcduffie is a better zone player doesnt mean he will be a better pro or better fit.  I feel he transitions to a slot more so than outside Cb.  Taron Johnson is a top 5 or 10 slot in the league.  Only press man corner in the draft better than Elam was Gardner.  Elams style allows Buffalo to matchup better against offense better and get more aggressive in coverage in scheme.  Bill B is not some mastermind big brain.  As a GM he has made his job as a coach much harder.  

[Warcodered]

Probably not as much better as Gareon Conley has been compared to Tre White since he was taken 3 whole spots ahead of him instead of two.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

Probably true that McDuffie is more of a stir and ready corner for our system

 

but

 

That does not mean Elam wont end up becoming the better player......one thing that really does not get talked enough about Elam (everybody on the size, speed, hight)

 

Elam faced receivers that were drafted into the NFL that the expectation is they are going to the be the top receiver for their teams.....Elam faced them all.....and Elam did well against them all.

 

"its in the heart Georgie....he fights for it"

[Rigotz]

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions here and I don’t necessarily agree.

 

The Bills run a press man zone scheme. You know what’s a really bad quality to have in press man zone? Short arms. It makes it very difficult to control the WR at the line because you become easily overpowered.

 

McDuffie is a great cover corner - vastly superior in Man Cover at short distances, so I’m not surprised he was drafted first. However, Elam is actually a superior scheme fit for the Bills.

 

The rankings specific to the Bills scheme probably went:

- Sauce

- Stingley

- Booth (injured)

- Elam

- McDuffie

 

My guess is we traded up when McDuffie was taken because there was a steep dropoff after Elam. I also think this has absolutely nothing to do with Belichick. He traded out because he wanted more picks… had zero to do with wanting the Bills to not get a specific corner - that’s insane.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think it's fair to speculate on who Beane and McDermott preferred of the two, and lord knows I do my fair share of speculating on this board, but none of us know who Beane and McDermott had rated higher.  As an aside, I've seen scouting reports that said Elam didn't shy away from contact and was a physical tackler.  He might  need some training on his tackling technique but that's doable.  Some CBs don't like to tackle, I don't know if you can fix that.

[Thurman#1]

You're not 98% sure of squat.

 

What you have there is a bald-faced guess. 

 

You certainly might be correct. Equally, you might not.

[billybrew1]

24 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

This is 100% conjecture. You don’t even know if McDuffy was on their board. Pretty sure we are going to be very happy with Elam.

[gobills404]

23 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

That’s an easy yes. Elam has the higher ceiling and if there’s any team that knows how to the most out of their DBs it’s the Bills. Combine that with his work ethic/study habits I’m honestly expecting Elam to become the better player.

[CookieG]

Elam's biggest endorsement, after the draft, came from Richard Sherman.  He tweeted something like, "what he needs to improve is correctable.  With that coaching staff, I'm looking forward to seeing how he ends up."

 

Beane made the point of bringing up the interview conversation, where Elam asked what he needs to do to improve.  "the Notebook" that Elam created of his deficiencies left a room full of coaches and scouts beaming.

 

"upside", "ceiling" or "natural talent", pick your term...coupled with a willingness to be coached, is probably what sold them in the end.  They are banking that they can correct his tackling ability and cutting down on holding/PI penalties. 

 

He wasn't drafted as a finished product. But the finished product can be Pro Bowl caliber.

 

Whether they would have taken McDuffie over him is anyone's guess.  But they seem really happy with who they got.

[Rico]

When I think of McDuffie, I think of OJ McDuffie. 
 

When I think of Elam, I think of Matt Elam. 

[Captain_Quint]

Out of all the first round CBs this year, I can't really think of one that will be alot better than the rest at the end of year 1. They all have some elite talent, and they all have challenges to overcome. Stingley and Sauce have to play on terrible teams, but are better cover corners.  McDuffie and Elam are on good teams, but more ground to make up in the skills dept than the other two. 

 

I think in the long run, it will come down to who can overcome the mental part of the game and stay healthy. 

[wppete]

Both great players but I’ll take Elam on this defense. 

[billsbackto81]

Too early to tell who's better and too early to assume whose game translates better to NFL play.

 

Lamar Jackson was the 5th QB drafted and 32nd overall yet he's an MVP and the 2nd best QB from that class.

 

You just never know......

[Billzgobowlin]

58 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

I like the size and speed of Elam.  You can't teach size but Florida didn't prepare him for the NFL, I think McDermott will be able to help.

11 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

Out of all the first round CBs this year, I can't really think of one that will be alot better than the rest at the end of year 1. They all have some elite talent, and they all have challenges to overcome. Stingley and Sauce have to play on terrible teams, but are better cover corners.  McDuffie and Elam are on good teams, but more ground to make up in the skills dept than the other two. 

 

I think in the long run, it will come down to who can overcome the mental part of the game and stay healthy. 

The funny thing is Stingley has had durability issues so he has question marks too.  I don't know what to think about Gardner however his level of competition is not at the same level as the SEC.

[First Round Bust]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

It's obvious that Belichick allowed the Chiefs to trade up with them to jump the Bills for McDuffie. Belichick knows the Bills scheme and knew the Bills wanted McDuffie. McDuffie was a seamless, perfect scheme fit for the Zone-heavy scheme the Bills run. McDuffie is already elite at playing Off Coverage; Elam is a projection in that regard. Elam also has a huge hole in his game; he is very bad at tackling (so so so many instances on tape of Elam whiffing on tackles)

 

If both McDuffie and Elam were on the board at 25, I'm 98% sure Beane would have selected McDuffie. Once he got jumped, however, he had no choice but to trade up to make sure he got the next best guy at CB. But still, the Bills missed out on the guy they truly wanted.

 

So the question is, how much worse than McDuffie is Elam? Big dropoff, little dropoff, about the same? Is it even possible that Elam becomes the better player? 

 

Has anyone here compared these 2 players? I was curious what you thought.

 

dude...Sauce G did not give a TD in over 1200+ snaps in college football career and was not even the first CB taken in this draft, and using that comparison on Elam and McDuffie makes both look like second or third round picks...further we made Leodis McKelvin the very first CB taken in the draft years ago and the dude never knew when or how to react to a thrown ball other than running with his back to it for a career and nice pension.

 

[13 Second Prevent Defense]

I could see 96% maybe but 98% is crazy