Alphas Draft thoughts...Our picks, post draft Bills, and Beane

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Honestly, I don't think he will be that versatile in the NFL. I like Shakir a lot I had a 3rd round grade on him and I think by the end of the season he will be the Bills starting slot receiver. If you get 3 seasons of productive starting slot receiver play from a 5th round pick that is excellent asset management. But outside he isn't going to be more than just someone who can spell the other guys. Lacks functional strenght against bigger corners and has a tendency to round of downfield routes rather than finishing them. The second can be improved the first is a limitation he has to work with. 

 

I know be played outside half of the time at Boise. This is going to be a completely different game in the NFL. For me he is slot only at the next level. 

 

As much as I like Shazir, I think people are over looking Crowder too much.  I don't think Shazir takes Crowders starting slot spot this year unless Crowder gets hurt personally.  Not a knock on Shazir, he is our future slot guy who I think will be very good there, but more a credit to what I think Crowder can do catching passes from Allen, plus his experience.  McD doesn't typically like starting rookies unless they flat out beat out the vet or he has to.  We have brought most of our rookies along slowly who had good vets ahead of them with the one exception really being Rousseau last year who surprised a bit to take the starting nod week 1.  Although, DE was still a heavy rotation even so.  

 

And I agree he is more suited for the slot, but if we had injury issues on the outside, he has some versatility to play outside if he had to.  But I do think his primary role in the NFL will be in the slot.  

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I have to disagree.  I don't feel that the Wyatt Teller situation has any relevance to the Cody Ford situation.

 

Disagree, and if you listened to Beane's interview the very thing he said his mistake was in regards to Teller was that he didn't give him enough time.  He then emphatically said he would not make that mistake again.  

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

First, there's a huge difference in the hit to Beane's ego in having a 2nd rounder you traded up for bust versus a 5th rounder.  No one is going to say much about a 5th round bust.

 

Hard disagree here.  If you think Beane has any sort of ego about this, then you don't seem to know Beane very well.  Every GM in football has a resume full of busts that come from everywhere in the draft, including first and second round picks.  Its part of the job, nobody bats a thousand.  But trading away a kid too early that goes onto quickly become one of the best players at his position in the NFL is a lot harder pill to swallow.  Adding salt to the wound, Teller plays a position that is still a position we need a long term answer to still. 

 

You had that kid, your staff tried to develop and evaluate him and you missed something.  Drafting a kid in the 2nd, these coaches have nothing on them...no hands on coaching, never seen the kid step onto a professional field, etc.  Its just a calculated guess.  

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Second, Wyatt Teller was not a bust in Buffalo.  He was a 5th round pick who started 7 games as a rookie, albeit due to injuries.  Furthermore, he was looking more and more competent as the season when on. It was a very successful pick by any measure.   Cody Ford, on the other hand, has shown nothing in three years.

 

First off, no disrespect, but saying he "started 7 games" is not a barometer of him being a bust or not.  If that was true, Cody Ford would not be considered a bust.  Second, you need to go listen to the Beane interview, he literally said Teller wasn't doing well and not looking like the right fit when they made the decision to move on.  And he said his biggest mistake was not giving him more time.  I mean, Beane isn't going to jettison a 5th rounder who was doing well at a position of need, so. no offense, but what you just said here is contradictory to the staffs impression of him.  

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Third, Beane was widely praise for getting more draft capital back from the Teller trade than he used to pick him, so the trade was a boost to Beane's ego not a hit.

 

You are obsessed with this ego thing.  Its Beanes job to get the most value out of all our assets.  Whether its using a draft asset to pick a player or trading a player for draft picks or other players.  What on earth does that have to do with his ego?  

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

The mistake that Beane made was that assuming the mostly JAG oline guys that he signed, Winters, Feliciano, and Spain, were better than Teller.  By the end of that season Teller was better than all three of them (I know Winters was signed mostly as backup center, but I believe he also played some guard).

 

Ok, this here is just a narrative you have created, not at all what the coaching staff felt.  Teller wasn't better than all 3 of them by the end of the season.  You just saying that doesn't make it true.  You seem to have this notion that Teller was playing great, but Beane decided to trade him because it boosted his ego to get more than he invested in Teller back in trade.  Beane is here to win SB's, not make ego moves.  Not a chance he trades Teller if he was playing better than our other guys.  Sorry, but his is just a narrative you created to support your opinion, but its completely contradictory to the front offices decisions and opinions.

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Finally, what was Beane supposed to say about the Teller trade?  That it was a good decision?  That would sound moronic.  His answer sounds like a trite response to the standard interview question: Name one mistake you made and what you learned from it.  If what he learned was that you need to keep Cody Ford around no matter what, just in case he develops, then Beane probably learned the wrong thing.  I am not arguing that they need to cut Ford now, but if he doesn't show anything in training camp/preseason they should definitely be very actively looking.

 

First off, he volunteered the info, he wasn't grilled on it.  He literally owned the mistake (instead of trying to blanket some excuses to make it look like it wasn't really a bad call at the time) and identified the key factor in what he did wrong and how he will correct that moving forward.  His number 1 mistake was not giving him enough time, and said he wouldn't make that mistake again.  

 

And Cody Ford was not even mentioned.  But you look at that logic with Ford, and it makes sense why some fans are still up in arms about Ford and puzzled why he is  still here.  First off, he wasn't a total bust, there were some times especially early where he looked like he had some promise.  He has also struggled a lot too, but he has also switched positions from college to the Pros which a lot of people over look. 

 

This over exaggerated response of yours above that I bolded is just silly.  Literally no one has even remotely suggested that, nor has anything Beane said or done remotely suggested that.  Its just another over the top statement thats unnecessary here.

 

In fact, what I and just about everyone I have seen discuss Ford have said that this is probably his last chance and his most important camp of his career.  Its reasonable that they are interested to see if Kromer (widely considered one of the best OL coaches in the game, if not the best) and a different blocking scheme can help Ford get back on track.  But make no mistake, his job security is long gone, and he is going to have to earn his roster spot if he wants to stick around.  

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Beane is the best Bills' GM since Bill Polian.  However, he is not GM god, at least not yet.

 

 

There is no GM in history that is a GM god.  No one bats .1000 in the draft of personnel decisions.  Widely considered one of the best all time, and often the best GM all time, Bill Walsh traded up to get JJ Stokes in the first and called him the next Jerry Rice.  He also said Jim Drunkenmiller had Joe Montana potential.  

 

Beane is already considered amongst the league bests right now, and many (myself included) see him as the top GM in the NFL right now.  And that will only get more widespread and cemented when we hoist the Lombardi Trophy for the first time.  

[Billy Claude]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

And I have repeatedly said the same.  It’s Cody’s last chance.  But if you don’t think the Teller situation is a factor in Beane wanting to give Cody a chance I think you’re naive.  Beane hasn’t given Cody a 2nd contract; he hasn’t insisted he get playing time.  Those are coaching decisions.  Ford has also been hurt a lot.  The odds are far greater that we’ve seen the last of Cody on a Bills’ regular season roster than otherwise.

 

I also strongly disagree with your premise that Beane gave an “easy answer” on the Teller situation.  He did the opposite — he went in depth on his thinking about what was happening at the time.  He could have continued to say he made the right decision at the time but he didn’t — he said he wished he had been more patient.  Beane has admitted other mistakes as well, such as botching the QB situation in Josh’s rookie year.

 

BBB is a guy who checks all the boxes in terms of integrity, honesty, and accountability.  He doesn’t pat himself on the back for his good decisions (he shares credit) and he accepts responsibility for his bad ones.

 

And I’m sorry, looking at what the Bills were when he got here to what they are now, and understanding that being a GM is infinitely more complex than it was when Polian was around, I think he may already be the best GM we’ve ever had.

 

 

 

My primary response was to the statement "I laugh inwardly every time I read a post about how Beane will keep draft picks who shouldn’t be on the team only because he doesn’t want to admit he was wrong."   

 

I just don't see how trading a 5th round draft pick who was trending upwards has anything to do with Beane possibly being too loyal to his high round draft choices.  The only connection between Wyatt Teller and Cody Ford are that they are offensive linemen.

 

On Beane admitting when he makes mistakes;  I was probably over-zealous in  my comment -- I agree that Beane tends to admit his mistakes more than most GMs will. It is just for the specific case of Wyatt Teller, the mistake is so obvious that admitting it really doesn't amount to mucj.

 

On your last point regarding Beane vs. Polian.  I think Beane has done a very good job,  the statement that he is the  best Bills' GM since Polian was meant to be a compliment, though perhaps now that I think of it, a fairly low bar.   Beane might get there eventually but I will have to disagree that his record at the present exceeds that of Bill Polian who is in the Hall of Fame.   

 

As for it being a simpler time, I don't see how that is relevant -- Polian had to be better than a vast majority of the other GMs unless you want to make a big deal out it being 31 other GMs now instead of 27 then.   I hope that eventually, I can agree with you that Beane is better than Polian, but as of right now, we will just have to disagree.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Billy Claude

[Billy Claude]

I did not notice the 2nd response.

 

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

First off, no disrespect, but saying he "started 7 games" is not a barometer of him being a bust or not.  If that was true, Cody Ford would not be considered a bust.  

 

As I noted in the previous message, my main issue was with the statement that "

I laugh inwardly every time I read a post about how Beane will keep draft picks who shouldn’t be on the team only because he doesn’t want to admit he was wrong."

 

Cody Ford has been given three years.  A 5th round draft choice that starts 7 games his rookie year is not a bust.  A 2nd round draft choice that starts 7 games his first 3 years is a bust.  (I know he has started more than 7 games -- I am just referring to your statement.)

 

You are obsessed with this ego thing.  Its Beane's job to get the most value out of all our assets.  Whether its using a draft asset to pick a player or trading a player for draft picks or other players.  What on earth does that have to do with his ego?  

 

I am only referring to ego because of the statement  "I laugh inwardly every time I read a post about how Beane will keep draft picks who shouldn’t be on the team only because he doesn’t want to admit he was wrong."   Obviously anyone in Beane's position has to have massive egos.  Otherwise he would be unable to do his job.

 

Ok, this here is just a narrative you have created, not at all what the coaching staff felt.  Teller wasn't better than all 3 of them by the end of the season.  You just saying that doesn't make it true.  You seem to have this notion that Teller was playing great, but Beane decided to trade him because it boosted his ego to get more than he invested in Teller back in trade.  Beane is here to win SB's, not make ego moves.  Not a chance he trades Teller if he was playing better than our other guys.  Sorry, but his is just a narrative you created to support your opinion, but its completely contradictory to the front offices decisions and opinions.

 

Maybe  the coaching staff did not feel that way, however, the Cleveland Browns certainly did -- they gave up more than the Bills used to draft him.  Also many people on the board felt that he was doing a very promising job.

 

First off, he volunteered the info, he wasn't grilled on it.  He literally owned the mistake (instead of trying to blanket some excuses to make it look like it wasn't really a bad call at the time) and identified the key factor in what he did wrong and how he will correct that moving forward.  His number 1 mistake was not giving him enough time, and said he wouldn't make that mistake again.  

 

And Cody Ford was not even mentioned.  But you look at that logic with Ford, and it makes sense why some fans are still up in arms about Ford and puzzled why he is  still here.  First off, he wasn't a total bust, there were some times especially early where he looked like he had some promise.  He has also struggled a lot too, but he has also switched positions from college to the Pros which a lot of people over look. 

 

The only reason I mention Cody Ford was the the aforementioned statement about the inward laughing (at least I believe) was clearly in reference to either Cody Ford or Edmunds.  I just don't feel that trading a 5th rounder has anything to do with either case.  I am not making a statement Beane is keeping these guys because of ego -- I am just saying that the Teller trade says nothing about this. 

 

This over exaggerated response of yours above that I bolded is just silly.  Literally no one has even remotely suggested that, nor has anything Beane said or done remotely suggested that.  Its just another over the top statement thats unnecessary here.

 

In fact, what I and just about everyone I have seen discuss Ford have said that this is probably his last chance and his most important camp of his career.  Its reasonable that they are interested to see if Kromer (widely considered one of the best OL coaches in the game, if not the best) and a different blocking scheme can help Ford get back on track.  But make no mistake, his job security is long gone, and he is going to have to earn his roster spot if he wants to stick around.  

 

This I agree with.

 

There is no GM in history that is a GM god.  No one bats .1000 in the draft of personnel decisions.  Widely considered one of the best all time, and often the best GM all time, Bill Walsh traded up to get JJ Stokes in the first and called him the next Jerry Rice.  He also said Jim Drunkenmiller had Joe Montana potential.  

 

Beane is already considered amongst the league bests right now, and many (myself included) see him as the top GM in the NFL right now.  And that will only get more widespread and cemented when we hoist the Lombardi Trophy for the first time.  

 

That was my point was that he is not "GM god" but many people on this board seem to behave like he is.  After every draft everyone is able to convince themselves that every pick is a good pick.   Do I know, of course not.

 

I think Beane is a very good GM.  Is he the best? in my opinion, not yet, but that is just my opinion,  I certainly hope that he becomes so.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Billy Claude

[eball]

4 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

It is just for the specific case of Wyatt Teller, the mistake is so obvious that admitting it really doesn't amount to mucj.

On that point we disagree. 

[Success]

This write-up made me want to time travel to next January.

 

But I'm going to savor these days.  I agree w/ the takes in the OP, and think we improved an already excellent team.  There are almost no weaknesses - we're ready.