Rd 6, Pick 180 (1): Punter Matt Araiza, San Diego State

[CaliBills]

Pat McAfee mentioned in his podcast that when he was drafted by the colts. He lied and said he could hold but at West VA, he did the same as Ariza in terms of kicking and punting and never held.

 

He said he had to learn it but if you are athletic enough it is rather easy to adjust and learn.

 

I have little concern about the holding, he will work on it all off season to come in and be able to do it from a general standpoint.

Then, working with Bass, they will work to get on the same page about tilt, direction, etc.  

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

I just have to say that several people here are saying that it will be easy for Araiza to learn to hold.  Why will it be easy for him while it was so hard for Bojo?  He's never learned it.  

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Just found this article.  Pretty interesting stuff, also explains why Stout went well ahead of Araiza.  Also answers some of my question about analytics and punting.

 

https://phillycovercorner.com/2022/03/whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=whats-the-value-of-a-good-punt-and-some-more-jordan-stout

 

Stout rarely has touchbacks, nearly twice as good as the average NFL punter.

 

Thanks for the article interesting.   

 

I'd add one thing that possibly could lead to Stout being overrated, and that is the quality of his punt coverage team.  There are multiple videos in the article of Penn State having TWO punt coverage guys behind the return man, catching the ball in the air at the two or knocking it out of bounds.  Stout hit good punts, but he would have had several touchbacks but for the excellence of his cover guys.  

[CaliBills]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just have to say that several people here are saying that it will be easy for Araiza to learn to hold.  Why will it be easy for him while it was so hard for Bojo?  He's never learned it.  

 

I wouldn't say "easy".  Plenty of work will need to be done.  But I'm sure plenty of people said Josh Allen couldn't learn to be accurate and I would say he has done well with the accuracy issue because of putting in the time and work.  The reason I am not concerned is I do believe that Ariza will work and put in the time.  Just like those videos show him working on hangtime and hitting 5.5 seconds hangtime on 50 yd punts.  I get game days are different but still, there is promise.  

 

I mentioned McAfee because he brought up Ariza and his lack of holding and he kind of had the same situation coming out of West VA.  But believes since Ariza is athletic that he will pick it up without issue.

[Shaw66]

Just now, CaliBills said:

 

I wouldn't say "easy".  Plenty of work will need to be done.  But I'm sure plenty of people said Josh Allen couldn't learn to be accurate and I would say he has done well with the accuracy issue because of putting in the time and work.  The reason I am not concerned is I do believe that Ariza will work and put in the time.  Just like those videos show him working on hangtime and hitting 5.5 seconds hangtime on 50 yd punts.  I get game days are different but still, there is promise.  

 

I mentioned McAfee because he brought up Ariza and his lack of holding and he kind of had the same situation coming out of West VA.  But believes since Ariza is athletic that he will pick it up without issue.

Well, I get this.   But was Bojo a subpar athlete?   Not committed enough?

 

I'm a decent athlete, but I'm not so sure I could learn to do it at an NFL level.   

 

All I'm really saying is that it isn't a given. 

[CaliBills]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I get this.   But was Bojo a subpar athlete?   Not committed enough?

 

I'm a decent athlete, but I'm not so sure I could learn to do it at an NFL level.   

 

All I'm really saying is that it isn't a given. 

 

I agree, it definitely is not given.  

 

But I do believe Bojo wasn't committed, hence why he has been released by several teams.

 

As a Punter, you have two responsibilities, 1 Punt really well and punt differently when needed.  2 Hold for FG's.    I honestly see no reason why a punter cannot learn to hold if they put in the time and effort.  It isn't something that is physically difficult other than decent hands and understanding rotations.

 

Maybe hand and eye coordination is something Bojo lacks.  I don't know to be honest. 

 

Oh and I am sure you can hold at an NFL level if that was your only job to do.  Don't sell yourself short @Shaw66 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by CaliBills

[The Dean]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I get this.   But was Bojo a subpar athlete?   Not committed enough?

 

I'm a decent athlete, but I'm not so sure I could learn to do it at an NFL level.   

 

All I'm really saying is that it isn't a given. 

 

I think you are correct. First, note Beane refers to Haack as an ELITE  holder. 

 

The idea that holding is so easy anyone can do it may be true, if you aren't concerned about him being excellent. Yes probably most athletes can be OK at it. I don't think that's what this team is looking for.

 

However, given Araiza's apparent commitment to learning,  I believe he will be fine and can approach excellent status and perhaps ELITE down the road.

 

But there's always the slight possibility he cannot.  IMO that's fair to discuss.  Contingencies are always good fodder for discussion 

[Warcodered]

 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, CaliBills said:

 

 

Oh and I am sure you can hold at an NFL level if that was your only job to do.  Don't sell yourself short @Shaw66 

 

At 75 years old, I don't think there's anything I could do in the NFL.  

 

If the Bills still had the Jills, maybe I could be a part-time cheerleader scout.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

At 75 years old, I don't think there's anything I could do in the NFL.  

 

If the Bills still had the Jills, maybe I could be a part-time cheerleader scout.  

With that kind of wise fandom longevity, I nominate you for “eye in the sky” instant replay operator ready at a moment’s notice to overrule pass interference calls (part-time, only needed whenever we play the Patsies). 🤩

Edited May 5, 2022 by NoHuddleKelly12

[KDIGGZ]

I've been reading up on this guy and in punting circles they see him as a super raw prospect. He is actually a soccer player turned kicker turned punter, so he has not been punting for very long at all and is still learning the position. He has been working with a coach in preparation for the draft.

 

In addition to learning how to hold, he needs to work on his drop, not taking up to 10 yards to get a running start or he will get it blocked (which he has multiple times), his accuracy and bounce with the nose of the football, and his hang time which is almost non-existent (line drives). He's basically Happy Gilmore'ing it and knocking the crap out of the football with no regard where it's going and then sprinting down the field to help make the tackle to keep his net yard average high (which was highest in nation and higher than anyone in the NFL). It would be the equivalent of drafting a QB who can throw it 80+ yards but isn't very accurate and we've seen how those guys turn out 🤔😄

[unbillievable]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

 

In addition to learning how to hold, he needs to work on his drop, not taking up to 10 yards to get a running start or he will get it blocked (which he has multiple times), his accuracy and bounce with the nose of the football, and his hang time which is almost non-existent (line drives). He's basically Happy Gilmore'ing it and knocking the crap out of the football with no regard where it's going and then sprinting down the field to help make the tackle to keep his net yard average high (which was highest in nation and higher than anyone in the NFL). It would be the equivalent of drafting a QB who can throw it 80+ yards but isn't very accurate and we've seen how those guys turn out 🤔😄

 

He doesn't have any blocked punts on his stats, was it in bowl games?

The report says he gets punts off too soon, which hinders his gunners' ability to get downfield.

 

Everyone is making a big deal about taking 3 steps; is there a way to teach him to take no steps?

 

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

He doesn't have any blocked punts on his stats, was it in bowl games?

The report says he gets punts off too soon, which hinders his gunners' ability to get downfield.

 

Everyone is making a big deal about taking 3 steps; is there a way to teach him to take no steps?

 

https://youtu.be/GEl6BfSFF7o

[Buffalo716]

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for the article interesting.   

 

I'd add one thing that possibly could lead to Stout being overrated, and that is the quality of his punt coverage team.  There are multiple videos in the article of Penn State having TWO punt coverage guys behind the return man, catching the ball in the air at the two or knocking it out of bounds.  Stout hit good punts, but he would have had several touchbacks but for the excellence of his cover guys.  

I understand your point 

 

Ever think his solid hangtime allowed the coverage team to get into great position? 

 

Maybe it was both doing their jobs

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I understand your point 

 

Ever think his solid hangtime allowed the coverage team to get into great position? 

 

Maybe it was both doing their jobs

Absolutely correct.  It's all about team and everyone doing their job.  My point was that a stat like punts inside the 20 isn't a purely individual stat.  

[CapeBreton]

The hold looks good!

[Doc]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

https://youtu.be/GEl6BfSFF7o

 

We talked about this earlier.  The snap was high and short, causing Araiza to jump up and forward to get it, which both delayed him punting the ball and shortened the distance between himself and his blockers, leading to the defender having more time and a shorter distance to get to him...and thus block it.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Absolutely correct.  It's all about team and everyone doing their job.  My point was that a stat like punts inside the 20 isn't a purely individual stat.  

It's absolutely a team stat

 

Look how much value a gunner like Matthew Slater has given the Patriots over a decade

 

Special team aces are invaluable

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'm sure it's been said somewhere in the 30 pages..........but can't Case Keenum hold?   Seems to me he has done it before in his long run as a backup but perhaps I'm misremembering.

 

The Araiza pick isn't anything they should go out of their way to make work........ he's just a developmental punter with a powerful leg.............but for holding what's wrong with having an actually offensive player handling the football?

 

If nothing else it gives the defense reason to have pause about over-pursuing the kick block and ignoring responsibilities and potentially getting jacked on a fake.

 

I mean train your punter up but I think a QB with a guaranteed roster spot should be ale to be the primary.

[syhuang]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

https://youtu.be/GEl6BfSFF7o

 

As Doc said, we already discussed this. You said Araiza had multiple punts blocked. Do you base on the title of the video you posted, , ie. the "second" key word in the title, to make the multiple-punt-blocked statement?

 

As also discussed already in this thread, the first supposed blocked punt in the same game officially is a 27-yard punt. As in the following video, it's only a partial block and the ball still traveled 27 yards forward. Thus, official play-by-play is a 27-yard punt. Furthermore, as showed in the video, it's caused by a unblocked Utah State player and it's not really Araiza's fault.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by syhuang