Rd 3, Pick 89 (25): LB Terrell Bernard, Baylor

[junior]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

The Bills also thought Cody Ford, Zach Moss, etc were top prospects, let’s not get so up in Beane’s jock strap, we forget he’s missed a LOT on 1st-3rd round picks. They haven’t added a single starting caliber LB since Beane took over, continue to waste pick after pick on mediocre RBs, under sized “motor” guys and worst of all they are doing it in the first 3 rounds.  The only pick they have nailed has been Allen, it covers up a lot.  Brown looks good so maybe we give them 2 picks in their time they have hit on in the first 3 rounds of any draft.  Before the fan boys get here, yes Oliver is solid, but no where near top 10 pick production in any category.

 

1. Why would adding an additional starting caliber LB be a priority given we have had our two starters in place the last 4yrs in Milano and Edmunds (who Beane drafted)?
2. Starting players from each draft (excl. 2022)
   • 2021:
     • Starting DE
     • Starting RT
   • 2020:
     • Starting WR
     • Starting K
     • Starting CB
   • 2019:
     • Starting DT
     • Starting RB
     • Starting TE
   • 2018:
     • Starting QB
     • Starting LB
     • Starting NB
     • All-Pro G
3. Which players at positions of needs would you have preferred the Bills take at 9? Here's a full list of '19 1st rounders who did not get their 5th year option picked up - not exactly a who's who drafted behind Oliver. The only names that stick out are Jeffrey Simmons, who had major character concerns, Christian Wilkins, Brian Burns, and Montez Sweat.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by junior

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

The Bills also thought Cody Ford, Zach Moss, etc were top prospects, let’s not get so up in Beane’s jock strap, we forget he’s missed a LOT on 1st-3rd round picks.   They haven’t added a single starting caliber LB since Beane took over, continue to waste pick after pick on mediocre RBs, under sized “motor” guys and worst of all they are doing it in the first 3 rounds.  The only pick they have nailed has been Allen, it covers up a lot.  Brown looks good so maybe we give them 2 picks in their time they have hit on in the first 3 rounds of any draft.  Before the fan boys get here, yes Oliver is solid, but no where near top 10 pick production in any category.

Whoa. Hold on a minute. I wasn’t genuflecting to Brandon and Sean. My comments were limited to the possible merits of our third round pick, that I really had no background on prior to the draft and that I continue to feel even after reflection may have been a little early. My sense of it though is that this guy has a real shot at being as good as or possibly even better than Milano, who for sure wound up being third round worthy. And Milano was in effect drafted by the Bills current braintrust. Sean obviously has a lot to say today who gets drafted into his defence and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Beane was involved in the decision. 
As for their drafting of LBs I can’t really blame them too much if Tremaine has in the eyes of many (including mine) not lived up to his billing given #16 overall. But y’know there’s a reason Roquan Smith went eight spots earlier and there is no way he was realistically within our reach. Tremaine was not a bad or Ill considered pick at the time even if today he wouldn’t go that high. Everybody knew there were issues with his game but I don’t blame Beane for gambling on the upside, which was very high. As for Cody, personally I much preferred Risner. There was no way in my amateur’s opinion that he has the feet to play at the tackle position. I did think he could work out as a G. I hope Kroger can salvage him. The measurables are there, which is why he was drafted where he was as a consensus pick.

Moss was likely not worth a third round pick, but I think Singletary probably was even if more dynamic RBs have gone in that spot. I wouldn’t grade him a fail and I look forward to seeing what he can do behind Kromer’s line. Cook is going to be a major weapon for Josh and the O imo. 
JMO but I think Beane has been and is a good GM. I think McDermott is an outstanding coordinator who still needs to prove that he’s a good HC. He’s a totally solid football professional who still needs to figure a few things out, maybe overthink less. I hold him personally responsible for the 13 second debacle (even if he won’t accept accountability). The problem is I fear that was the product of a character flaw, not of a lack of experience or knowledge. Those types of things are hard for anybody to overcome. If we see any more of that stuff I’ll be the first one wanting to string him up and put a lit bomb in his mouth. I’m hoping he will make better decisions in crunch time going forward.

Edited May 3, 2022 by starrymessenger

[FilthyBeast]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I'm surprised you haven't gotten used to it.  It isn't Dick Jauron's fascination with the tweeners; it's McDermotts.   The Bills did nothing much in 2020 to muscle up against the best running games, and they didn't again in 2021.   Unless and until power running games become the dominant offense in the NFL, McDermott is going to go small and quick.  It's obvious that's his preference.   

 

I get the logic.   Small and quick has a chance against the power game, but big never has a chance against quick.  

 

One thing that has surprised me is how good the Bills are in goal line situations.  Teams bulk up and bring in extra tackles and all that, and McDermott's little guys make a lot of stops.  

 

Comments in this thread have convinced me that McDermott wants to play with Bernard as the third linebacker on the field.  I always wanted Klein in on running situations, to ge his muscle to work.  Turns out, McDermott wanted to get rid of Klein and put more speed on the field.  

 

Overall point was that McD/Frazier run a similar scheme and philosophy as our old friend Jauron. (i.e Tampa2 roots, bend but don't break, tweener type utility players).

 

I've just personally been a fan of more physical defenses with players that fit a traditional size prototype on defense.  Especially when you look at what Cincy was able to do last year against the Chiefs and Rams offenses in the playoffs vs how our unit has performed in similar high stakes PO games under this regime.

 

But again, if Bernard ends up being a real difference maker and not just another 'system guy' out there so be it. Just feel there was better options on the board too that we may regret down the road especially if depth at other crucial positions is an issue again this year.

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Overall point was that McD/Frazier run a similar scheme and philosophy as our old friend Jauron. (i.e Tampa2 roots, bend but don't break, tweener type utility players).

 

I've just personally been a fan of more physical defenses with players that fit a traditional size prototype on defense.  Especially when you look at what Cincy was able to do last year against the Chiefs and Rams offenses in the playoffs vs how our unit has performed in similar high stakes PO games under this regime.

 

But again, if Bernard ends up being a real difference maker and not just another 'system guy' out there so be it. Just feel there was better options on the board too that we may regret down the road especially if depth at other crucial positions is an issue again this year.

The Bengals also had something we did not at the time, premier pass rusher in Hendrickson. Any time that the defensive front can make a QB rushed or just uncomfortable in general, it leads to the defense being able to make more plays. I think our front four is going to open up a lot more opportunities for the rest of our guys to fly around and do the same this coming season, especially in pass defense. It's the same thing with the Rams' front four. They get after opposing QB's with four guys and then they have a few "undersized" LB's flying around out there making plays. 

[DCofNC]

21 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Whoa. Hold on a minute. I wasn’t genuflecting to Brandon and Sean. My comments were limited to the possible merits of our third round pick, that I really had no background on prior to the draft and that I continue to feel even after reflection may have been a little early. My sense of it though is that this guy has a real shot at being as good as or possibly even better than Milano, who for sure wound up being third round worthy. And Milano was in effect drafted by the Bills current braintrust. Sean obviously has a lot to say today who gets drafted into his defence and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Beane was involved in the decision. 
As for their drafting of LBs I can’t really blame them too much if Tremaine has in the eyes of many (including mine) not lived up to his billing given #16 overall. But y’know there’s a reason Roquan Smith went eight spots earlier and there is no way he was realistically within our reach. Tremaine was not a bad or Ill considered pick at the time even if today he wouldn’t go that high. Everybody knew there were issues with his game but I don’t blame Beane for gambling on the upside, which was very high. As for Cody, personally I much preferred Risner. There was no way in my amateur’s opinion that he has the feet to play at the tackle position. I did think he could work out as a G. I hope Kroger can salvage him. The measurables are there, which is why he was drafted where he was as a consensus pick.

Moss was likely not worth a third round pick, but I think Singletary probably was even if more dynamic RBs have gone in that spot. I wouldn’t grade him a fail and I look forward to seeing what he can do behind Kromer’s line. Cook is going to be a major weapon for Josh and the O imo. 
JMO but I think Beane has been and is a good GM. I think McDermott is an outstanding coordinator who still needs to prove that he’s a good HC. He’s a totally solid football professional who still needs to figure a few things out, maybe overthink less. I hold him personally responsible for the 13 second debacle (even if he won’t accept accountability). The problem is I fear that was the product of a character flaw, not of a lack of experience or knowledge. Those types of things are hard for anybody to overcome. If we see any more of that stuff I’ll be the first one wanting to string him up and put a lit bomb in his mouth. I’m hoping he will make better decisions in crunch time going forward.

Well said.  I’m a little harsher on the decision to give Edmunds the 5th year guarantee and multiple head scratching FA signings with unnecessary guarantees.  I think Beane, especially for a new GM has been solid, Allen has made him look like a God.  Could not agree more on McD.

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Overall point was that McD/Frazier run a similar scheme and philosophy as our old friend Jauron. (i.e Tampa2 roots, bend but don't break, tweener type utility players).

 

I've just personally been a fan of more physical defenses with players that fit a traditional size prototype on defense.  Especially when you look at what Cincy was able to do last year against the Chiefs and Rams offenses in the playoffs vs how our unit has performed in similar high stakes PO games under this regime.

 

But again, if Bernard ends up being a real difference maker and not just another 'system guy' out there so be it. Just feel there was better options on the board too that we may regret down the road especially if depth at other crucial positions is an issue again this year.

Thanks. Good explanation, and I can't really argue with it.   McDermott could explain to you why he prefers quick to heavy.  Like you, he wants physical, but his belief is that he can be better with quick guys being as physical as they can be rather than sacrificing speed for guys whose size permits them to be more physical.  

 

Still, my comment about getting used holds, since the defense is going to fit McDermott's preferences rather than yours.  

 

I do worry that his vision of the defense has a problem, and I've mentioned this more in terms of the last season's defensive stats.  The Bills were about the least-dominant looking, league leading defense I can recall.   Our image of a great defense is one that over powers the offense.   That's not these guys, and that's why they don't LOOK like a #1 defense.  I think the potential problem with a defense like this is that over the course of the season, on average, it's the best defense, but when you get to the playoffs you aren't playing against average.   You're playing against the best, and then the lack of power can be a liability.   I think we may have similar views in that regard.  

[DCofNC]

29 minutes ago, junior said:

 

1. Why would adding an additional starting caliber LB be a priority given we have had our two starters in place the last 4yrs in Milano and Edmunds (who Beane drafted)?
2. Starting players from each draft (excl. 2022)
   • 2021:
     • Starting DE
     • Starting RT
   • 2020:
     • Starting WR
     • Starting K
     • Starting CB
   • 2019:
     • Starting DT
     • Starting RB
     • Starting TE
   • 2018:
     • Starting QB
     • Starting LB
     • Starting NB
     • All-Pro G
3. Which players at positions of needs would you have preferred the Bills take at 9? Here's a full list of '19 1st rounders who did not get their 5th year option picked up - not exactly a who's who drafted behind Oliver. The only names that stick out are Jeffrey Simmons, who had major character concerns, Christian Wilkins, Brian Burns, and Montez Sweat.

 

First and foremost, I clearly stated Beane has solidly whiffed on 1st through 3rd round picks, outside of Allen.   So starting with your lists:

 

2018: Allen 

1st Lack luster starter in Edmunds

The others don’t fit, but Taron (5th)has been good.

The All Pro G is on another team because Beane gave him away.. still want that?

 

2019:

1st Again no where near top 10 production

2nd bust

3rd Mediocre RB they have tried drafting 2 replacements for.

Knox has developed - you win

 

2020:

Didn’t draft Diggs. Traded for him, didn’t have to Actually project talent.

2nd round Bust.

3rd round Bust.

 

2021:

I like Groot, but he’s a starter by name only, rotational player who started bc of lack of talent Beane signed to his position.  May work out well, let’s see.

2nd round?

3rd Brown looks good so far.

 

You named plenty of guys they could have chosen, even one at the same position, over Oliver. 

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Nope, it’s about context.  The Bills have nobody in the Lb group that can set an edge, unless you count Miller as an LB.  All too light or high centered.

There’s a difference between short and actually undersized.  All those guys were just short, still built like a tree trunk.  The difference in the Bills LBs is they are small.  With the exception of Edmunds who is the classic, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, they are all short and light and still not very fast, it’s basically a group of guys that weren’t fast enough to play SS.

That's gratuitous criticism of a guy who has been scapegoated for the failure of the coaches, and our defense in the last 2 playoffs. He's not fast? The best GM in the league has had the choice of offloading or drafting his successor the last 2 years and chose to keep him for his 5th year. Over a hundred tackles the last 3 years and plays thru injuries for a top 5 statistically, defensive corp.. He calls defensive signals and is great in the lockeroom, despite unrelenting criticism from knee-jerk red hots on social media. With an improved D-line, and a walk year looming, let's see what he does this year.

[DCofNC]

12 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

That's gratuitous criticism of a guy who has been scapegoated for the failure of the coaches, and our defense in the last 2 playoffs. He's not fast? The best GM in the league has had the choice of offloading or drafting his successor the last 2 years and chose to keep him for his 5th year. Over a hundred tackles the last 3 years and plays thru injuries for a top 5 statistically, defensive corp.. He calls defensive signals and is great in the lockeroom, despite unrelenting criticism from knee-jerk red hots on social media. With an improved D-line, and a walk year looming, let's see what he does this year.

I’m sure he will continue to be mediocre and get paid well for being tall.

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I’m sure he will continue to be mediocre and get paid well for being tall.

 

And I'm sure you will continue finding ways to turn any thread into an "Edmunds sucks" thread...

[HamptonBillsfan]

Just now, DCofNC said:

I’m sure he will continue to be mediocre and get paid well for being tall.

Yea, the 13 seconds debacle and KC scoring on 3 straight long drives at the end of the game,  along with allowing 30+ pts to the 4 good offenses we played (Indy, KC, Tampa and Tenn)was all about 1 guy being mediocre. The rest of the defense and our coaches were great. Quick question: if Edmunds sucked so much, why did they keep putting him in the same style of defense for the last 4 seasons ? Are national football coverage reporters being paid to call Milano and Edmunds a great tandem? Maybe it's just the clueless redhots on message bds that need to blame a LB for a team getting beat in the playoffs 3 yes in a row. 

[junior]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

First and foremost, I clearly stated Beane has solidly whiffed on 1st through 3rd round picks, outside of Allen.   So starting with your lists:

 

2018: Allen 

1st Lack luster starter in Edmunds

The others don’t fit, but Taron (5th)has been good.

The All Pro G is on another team because Beane gave him away.. still want that?

 

2019:

1st Again no where near top 10 production

2nd bust

3rd Mediocre RB they have tried drafting 2 replacements for.

Knox has developed - you win

 

2020:

Didn’t draft Diggs. Traded for him, didn’t have to Actually project talent.

2nd round Bust.

3rd round Bust.

 

2021:

I like Groot, but he’s a starter by name only, rotational player who started bc of lack of talent Beane signed to his position.  May work out well, let’s see.

2nd round?

3rd Brown looks good so far.

 

You named plenty of guys they could have chosen, even one at the same position, over Oliver. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I mentioned more players than what the Bills have drafted in R1-3 because you said:

 

[Beane continues] "to waste pick after pick on mediocre RBs, under sized “motor” guys and worst of all they are doing it in the first 3 rounds.

 

So unless you're lumping Moss/Singletary into two separate groups to help prove your point, or are considering one of Harrison Phillips, Cody Ford, AJ Epenesa, Dawson Knox, Boogie Basham, or Spencer Brown to be an under sized “motor” guy, I'm not sure who you're talking about from Rounds 1-3.

 

1. Yep, still want to count Teller. 

 

2. If you want to count Epenesa and Moss as busts, be my guest. They haven't performed great by any means, but to label them as busts after two years seems premature. Plus, Beane mentioned Moss couldn't cut well last season following his off-season ankle surgery, so maybe this year he'll look different. Jury's still out. 

 

3. Starting DEs on this team are starters by name only given the fact that McD rotates ALL dlineman heavily. I'd bet Miller gets deployed in a similar capacity throughout the regular season as Hughes was last year (52%). If that's the case, would you say he's a starter by name only? (Also, Rousseau had the next most snaps at DE after Hughes, so, starter by more than just name.) Jury is obviously still out on Basham given he's been in the NFL for one season. Not sure why you have a question mark there. 

 

4. Yeah, and I'd say Oliver is better than or on par with Wilkins, Sweat, and Burns (not as good as Simmons, but he was never going to be drafted by the Bills). I'm not sure what your issue is with the Bills taking Oliver at 9. In your mind, are any of the above 3 players SO significantly better than Oliver that you consider him a bust compared to them, or a "miss?" 

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:10 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The only game you saw Rodger Saffold play in last year was the Bills/Titans game.  

 

Let me educate you. 

 

They graded out pretty similarly except in the most important ability..............availability.

 

Daryl Williams played 98% of the Bills offensive snaps and moved between two positions........playing almost 300 more snaps than Rodger Saffold.

 

Saffold basically missed 5 games worth of snaps.

 

That's because he was constantly leaving games last year with his chronic shoulder injury.

 

So what you are trying to say to boost your cause is that Saffold played just as well with 1 arm vs a perfectly healthy player? 🤣 

 

Good job. 

 

Williams stinks dude, Saffold is a much better guard, he gets far more push so much better on the run game and a far far better track record and played through nerve issue in his shoulder last year.

 

Also no where have I seen a single report that he has a "chronic" should injury,  it was a nagging injury that occurred in preseason, but in no way is it a chronic issue, stop making stuff up. 

 

Not only did we dump Williams as he deserved,  NO ONE has any interest in signing him. Zero,  zip,  nada.

 

 

[hemma]

How many DTs ranked in the Top 10 for both Pass Rush Win Rate AND Run Stop Win Rate?

 

one

 

Ed Oliver.

[Richard Noggin]

On 5/3/2022 at 5:28 PM, DCofNC said:

I’m sure he will continue to be mediocre and get paid well for being tall.

 

Your posting is dreadfully myopic and delights in ruffling the status quo, but you're not necessarily wrong on the Edmunds points. He is a passively effective player as part of a strong overall unit. He is able to affect/deter offenses with his traits, but is arguably unable to further affect offenses with his actual play. 

[machine gun kelly]

Agreed Noggin.  It just screams of an Edmunds suck conversion of this thread.  Back on topic, Bernard has the speed to be like a Big Nickel or Big Safety package and on special teams.  He’ll be in there for fine package defenses against run heavy or TE heavy defenses.

 

As far as drafting as well as FA acquisitions, Beane has been fine.  Hell he was GM of the year last year.  I’ve made this comment before, but the HOF GM stars multiple times on Late Hits on NFLR, that his lifetime drafting success was 57%.  He said to think a GM will hit on almost all GM’s and not miss 40% is foolish.

 

Allen was a hit, Knox is turning into an excellent TE, Oliver has come on strong in the last couple of years, and so on.

[DCofNC]

On 5/3/2022 at 7:09 PM, junior said:

 

 

Yeah, I mentioned more players than what the Bills have drafted in R1-3 because you said:

 

[Beane continues] "to waste pick after pick on mediocre RBs, under sized “motor” guys and worst of all they are doing it in the first 3 rounds.

 

So unless you're lumping Moss/Singletary into two separate groups to help prove your point, or are considering one of Harrison Phillips, Cody Ford, AJ Epenesa, Dawson Knox, Boogie Basham, or Spencer Brown to be an under sized “motor” guy, I'm not sure who you're talking about from Rounds 1-3.

 

1. Yep, still want to count Teller. 

 

2. If you want to count Epenesa and Moss as busts, be my guest. They haven't performed great by any means, but to label them as busts after two years seems premature. Plus, Beane mentioned Moss couldn't cut well last season following his off-season ankle surgery, so maybe this year he'll look different. Jury's still out. 

 

3. Starting DEs on this team are starters by name only given the fact that McD rotates ALL dlineman heavily. I'd bet Miller gets deployed in a similar capacity throughout the regular season as Hughes was last year (52%). If that's the case, would you say he's a starter by name only? (Also, Rousseau had the next most snaps at DE after Hughes, so, starter by more than just name.) Jury is obviously still out on Basham given he's been in the NFL for one season. Not sure why you have a question mark there. 

 

4. Yeah, and I'd say Oliver is better than or on par with Wilkins, Sweat, and Burns (not as good as Simmons, but he was never going to be drafted by the Bills). I'm not sure what your issue is with the Bills taking Oliver at 9. In your mind, are any of the above 3 players SO significantly better than Oliver that you consider him a bust compared to them, or a "miss?" 

 

 

1) you want Beane to get credit for identifying the Wyatt talent, but not take the blame for giving up an All-Pro for a 5th round pick… not how that works, but ok.

 

2) Thus far both Moss and Epenesa have been huge busts.

 

3) The line rotation is evidence that you have no talent, do we rotate Diggs, Allen, our entire OL out? No, there are clear starters.  Groot played well for a rookie, as I said, I like him, but is he genuinely a difference maker? Not yet.  I have high hopes for him.   The question mark for Boogie is just what you said, a second round pick spent on a DE who couldn’t really crack a pitifully untalented rotation.  If you refuse to believe the talent wasn’t  there, look at what happened in the off-season, the starter across from Groot, who got the MOST action, can’t find a job and the primary back up landed on the worst team in football after all the other options dried up.  That’s not good.

 

4) Oliver is still not producing at top 10 pick level, your argument is as dumb as arguing the Bills made the right pick by taking EJ Manuel in the first round, what other QB were they going to take that year?  Why take an average player at one position when there are plenty of others to take at…. Here it comes… one of the OTHER 21 starting positions.   Oliver is not any better than the other average guys taken at his position that year, which is bad enough, but look through all the players taken after him, there’s not one guy in the first 2 rounds you wouldn’t trade him for?  There are quite a few.  Drafting for need gets you a less talented roster.  I’ll take a Top 10 player at any position vs a mediocre player to fill a hole any day.  This is the problem with what the Bills have done under Beane.  ONE player they have drafted to fill a need has become great.  The rest are average to mediocre.  The talent they have passed on in the process, would have made a better team.

“So unless you're lumping Moss/Singletary into two separate groups to help prove your point, or are considering one of Harrison Phillips, Cody Ford, AJ Epenesa, Dawson Knox, Boogie Basham, or Spencer Brown to be an under sized “motor” guy, I'm not sure who you're talking about from Rounds 1-3.”

 

News flash, Singletary, Phillips, Epenesa, Basham are all less than ideal size/physical attributes (slow AF comes to mind) and all classified as motor guys.  Moss, known for effort (ie motor), but slow, also is not prototypical size, so they all fit in the same category.

 

Knox, athlete with issues, same for Brown, they worked out, which I have given credit for.

 

Ford? The guy who was said to be too slow to play OT, but they tried to make play OT? He’s not quite the same, but it’s more of a trying to be smarter than everyone else and it sure has not worked. 

This year he drafted 2 stud athletes with picks one and 2, I still don’t see Cook as a good pick, but whatever, then turned right back to the motor guy with no position for the 3rd round.  It’s a habit he can’t break and it hasn’t worked yet, so why keep pretending it has?
 

 

[Warcodered]

 

[BurpleBull]

I think Bernard may have been drafted to be the Micah Hyde of the LB crew. 

[John from Riverside]

whats with his pants being ripped.....did he turn into the hulk and turn back?