Can we talk about Tremaine Edmunds?

[Yantha]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

😂😂😂😂 so Edmunds, multiple Pro Bowls is being hated on for not being an All Pro like Allen, Diggs and White.  Is going to be replaced and play will be better by any of these day 3 players?  

Who said that?

I just posted these players to add depth and compete.  

Edited April 26, 2022 by Yantha

[Mat68]

Just now, Yantha said:

Who said that?

I just posted these players to add depth and compete.  

My bad. Had a string of posts state that Edmunds is easily replaced.  Curious as by who? And these were a group of names that came in.  

[Yantha]

It's hard to replace any player on a starting depth chart.  HOPEFUL that we will improve via the draft.

[RocCityRoller]

I've been a very vocal Edmunds detractor. In some ways it is not fair and in others I feel it is justified.

 

Edmunds had no say in where he was drafted, and expectations are high for #16 overall. One would expect a game changer at LB at that draft position. My biggest knocks on Edmunds are his inability to make game changing plays, and that he has been statistically regressing since his very good 2019 season.

Stats from Pro Football Reference:

 

Tackling and support:

Tackling - has improved his missed tackle % each year

               - slow to diagnose and react to run game, often takes bad angles.

               - 35% of his tackles are assists. He is often not the first person to a ball carrier, and is often the last guy in for a gang tackle with a 

                  shoulder tap. Even then he fails to try to strip the ball. His hits are soft and awareness is lacking. One can look at Forced Fumbles

                  and Fumble recoveries.

 

2018 - 121 Tot Tak / 80 Solo/ 41 Ast/ 5 TFL/ 2 FF/ 0 FR/ 16.6% Missed Tak

2019 - 115 Tot Tak/ 66 Solo/ 49 Ast/ 10 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 9.4% Missed Tak

2020 - 119 Tot Tak/ 77 Solo/ 42 Ast/ 4 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 9.2% Missed Tak

2021 - 108 Tot Tak/ 70 Solo/ 28 Ast/ 7 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 8.5% Missed Tak

 

Forced Fumbles and Fumble Recoveries

In 4 years he has 2 Forced Fumbles (2018 - rookie year) and none since. He is not jarring anyone and is rarely in position to strip the ball.

Edmunds has never registered a Fumble recovery in 4 years. That is pretty hard to do playing in the middle of the defense.

 

Some people say he is excellent in pass coverage. The eye test and the stats just don't back that up.

Pass coverage

2018 - 78.5% comp against/ 93.3 QB Rating against/ 2 INT/ 12 PD/ 8.7 YPC

2019 - 65.4% comp against/ 76.3 QB Rating against/ 1 INT/ 9 PD / 7.8 YPC

2020 - 67.2% comp against/ 114.3 QB Rating against/ 0 INT/ 3 PD / 12.6 YPC

2021 - 78.0% comp against/ 106.1 QB Rating against/ 1 INT/ 4 PD / 10.8 YPC

 

I don't understand how that is 'good pass coverage'. A lot of times he looks like a dancing bear in the middle of the field and is slow to diagnose who is entering his zone. Last year he was slow getting off the snap. In multiple games he didn't move when the ball was snapped. I recall two games where big plays were given up and he just stood still for a second or so after the ball was snapped and players ran by him where he was the only person in the zone.

 

Milano 2018-2021 for comparison

2018 - 56.5% Comp against/ 69.6 QB rating against/ 3 INT/ 7 PD / 10.9 YPC

2019 - 67.3% Comp against/ 94.5 QB rating against/ 0 INT/ 9 PD / 6.1 YPC

2020 - 62.9% Comp against/ 70.9 QB rating against/ 1 INT/ 3 PD / 7.2 YPC

2021 - 55.2% Comp against/ 71.9 QB rating against/ 0 INT/ 5 PD/  7.9 YPC

 

Pass rush is terrible. 5.5 sacks in 4 years. Pro Football Reference has him on 227 blitzes for a 2.4% blitz win rate. 11 total hurries and 9 QB take downs in 4 years.

 

I will grant that some of the 2020 regression was due to an injury, but 2021 was not up to his 2019 season either.

 

I do wonder how much playing a base Nickel affects the LBs, but Milano, a much lower pick has done well and equaled or exceeded Edmunds in many ways. Despite his athletic ability, a base Nickel may not be the path to getting the most out of Edmunds. Perhaps he would be a beast in a 4-3 or 3-4 and this could be trade value for a team running those schemes more often. I understand Buffalo wanting a 5th year look, but if he doesn't at least play like 2019, I would move on before giving him a big 2nd contract.

 

TENN missed badly on Rashaan Evans in the same draft (pick 22), but they have largely moved on. I just don't see a guy you pay a big second contract to in Edmunds. Based on his 2020 and 2021 play I think he is more a liability than an impact player.

Edited April 26, 2022 by RocCityRoller
spacing

[Billy Zabka]

Edmunds is an average to below average at times MLB. The Bills thought they could take an athletic freak and turn him into a stud MLB but it just hasn't worked out as Edmunds lacks a lot of the traits of a good MLB.  Im sure Beane now regrets the 12 million option they put on him before last year but he probably thought due to Edmunds age, inexperience at the position, and the draft capital spent on him that it was the right move at the time.   

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

I've been a very vocal Edmunds detractor. In some ways it is not fair and in others I feel it is justified.

 

Edmunds had no say in where he was drafted, and expectations are high for #16 overall. One would expect a game changer at LB at that draft position. My biggest knocks on Edmunds are his inability to make game changing plays, and that he has been statistically regressing since his very good 2019 season.

Stats from Pro Football Reference:

 

Tackling and support:

Tackling - has improved his missed tackle % each year

               - slow to diagnose and react to run game, often takes bad angles.

               - 35% of his tackles are assists. He is often not the first person to a ball carrier, and is often the last guy in for a gang tackle with a 

                  shoulder tap. Even then he fails to try to strip the ball. His hits are soft and awareness is lacking. One can look at Forced Fumbles

                  and Fumble recoveries.

 

2018 - 121 Tot Tak / 80 Solo/ 41 Ast/ 5 TFL/ 2 FF/ 0 FR/ 16.6% Missed Tak

2019 - 115 Tot Tak/ 66 Solo/ 49 Ast/ 10 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 9.4% Missed Tak

2020 - 119 Tot Tak/ 77 Solo/ 42 Ast/ 4 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 9.2% Missed Tak

2021 - 108 Tot Tak/ 70 Solo/ 28 Ast/ 7 TFL/ 0 FF/ 0 FR/ 8.5% Missed Tak

 

Forced Fumbles and Fumble Recoveries

In 4 years he has 2 Forced Fumbles (2018 - rookie year) and none since. He is not jarring anyone and is rarely in position to strip the ball.

Edmunds has never registered a Fumble recovery in 4 years. That is pretty hard to do playing in the middle of the defense.

 

Some people say he is excellent in pass coverage. The eye test and the stats just don't back that up.

Pass coverage

2018 - 78.5% comp against/ 93.3 QB Rating against/ 2 INT/ 12 PD/ 8.7 YPC

2019 - 65.4% comp against/ 76.3 QB Rating against/ 1 INT/ 9 PD / 7.8 YPC

2020 - 67.2% comp against/ 114.3 QB Rating against/ 0 INT/ 3 PD / 12.6 YPC

2021 - 78.0% comp against/ 106.1 QB Rating against/ 1 INT/ 4 PD / 10.8 YPC

 

I don't understand how that is 'good pass coverage'. A lot of times he looks like a dancing bear in the middle of the field and is slow to diagnose who is entering his zone. Last year he was slow getting off the snap. In multiple games he didn't move when the ball was snapped. I recall two games where big plays were given up and he just stood still for a second or so after the ball was snapped and players ran by him where he was the only person in the zone.

 

Milano 2018-2021 for comparison

2018 - 56.5% Comp against/ 69.6 QB rating against/ 3 INT/ 7 PD / 10.9 YPC

2019 - 67.3% Comp against/ 94.5 QB rating against/ 0 INT/ 9 PD / 6.1 YPC

2020 - 62.9% Comp against/ 70.9 QB rating against/ 1 INT/ 3 PD / 7.2 YPC

2021 - 55.2% Comp against/ 71.9 QB rating against/ 0 INT/ 5 PD/  7.9 YPC

 

Pass rush is terrible. 5.5 sacks in 4 years. Pro Football Reference has him on 227 blitzes for a 2.4% blitz win rate. 11 total hurries and 9 QB take downs in 4 years.

 

I will grant that some of the 2020 regression was due to an injury, but 2021 was not up to his 2019 season either.

 

I do wonder how much playing a base Nickel affects the LBs, but Milano, a much lower pick has done well and equaled or exceeded Edmunds in many ways. Despite his athletic ability, a base Nickel may not be the path to getting the most out of Edmunds. Perhaps he would be a beast in a 4-3 or 3-4 and this could be trade value for a team running those schemes more often. I understand Buffalo wanting a 5th year look, but if he doesn't at least play like 2019, I would move on before giving him a big 2nd contract.

 

TENN missed badly on Rashaan Evans in the same draft (pick 22), but they have largely moved on. I just don't see a guy you pay a big second contract to in Edmunds. Based on his 2020 and 2021 play I think he is more a liability than an impact player.

 

 

The lack of forced fumbles is glaring because he gets SO MANY opportunities on short throws underneath where he finds a receiver flat footed after they either squat down in zone or the QB stops them cold by delivering an inaccurate ball...........and Edmunds does not attempt to knock the ball out despite it being almost impossible for the ball carrier to break a tackle there.

 

Contrast that to Darius Leonard who forced 8 fumbles last year and is a sure tackler WHILE routinely, instinctively delivering the peanut punch on the football.

[HOUSE]

Trumaine Edmunds is made for Buffalo

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Trumaine Edmunds is made for Buffalo

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

NO

 

[Simstim]

6 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Trumaine Edmunds is made for Buffalo

Ooof

[Mat68]

Modern NFL mike is the hardest position to grade on defense.  You dont know there assignment so how can you determine his responsibility.  Imo, if Edmunds was what his detractors wanted him to be he would be the best LB in the NFL.  I think he has the ability in him to be it at times.  I feel like he is a solid player, above average and is asked to do things for our defense only a few humans can.

[HamptonBillsfan]

Edmunds cannot ever survive the wrath of the many detractors that see him as logical scapegoat for the losses suffered at the hands of KC and the other good offenses (Tampa, Tenn, Indy) we played. The game changing plays he never made, the confusion on misdirection runs or coverage whiffs, all very accurate. However, the responsibility of covering up for a D-line with few sacks and QB pressures, a defensive plan that puts him in the crosshairs with tough matchups that usually dominate, when they know his shortcomings and despite these challenges he makes a lot of plays and calls signals for a top 5 defense statistically. The coaches never improved his pressure skill set and play him on every down. FA and the draft focused on getting to the QB in the last two seasons. Those selections failed miserably, (AJ, Addison, Rousseau, Butler) and in 2 games against KC in the postseason, Mahomes had his way. Blame the coaches and our DBs for allowing Hill, Kelce and the others for the obscene amount of passing yards. Edmunds is just an easy target. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Yantha said:

Right.  I'll be gone from this board after the draft....  I really care about post count.  Check out when I joined.... and do the math on yearly post counts....

Its actually why your doing it.   Create as many stupid ***** posts as you can in a short amount of time.

Edited April 26, 2022 by John from Riverside

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Quote

BBB

The draft is more of a long-term approach. You’re drafting a guy in the first round that you would hope you’re at least picking up their fifth-year option and you’ve got him for five years. So you’re not looking for a short-term fix.”

 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/4/26/23042651/buffalo-bills-invest-nfl-draft-picks-for-long-term-not-short-term-impact-brandon-beane

[Dopey]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

Yawn 

Yawn

Oh yeah: 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dopey

[Yantha]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Its actually why your doing it.   Create as many stupid ***** posts as you can in a short amount of time.

Ignored.  

 

Love that option.  This board is getting better and better.  

[Dopey]

19 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Edmunds cannot ever survive the wrath of the many detractors that see him as logical scapegoat for the losses suffered at the hands of KC and the other good offenses (Tampa, Tenn, Indy) we played. The game changing plays he never made, the confusion on misdirection runs or coverage whiffs, all very accurate. However, the responsibility of covering up for a D-line with few sacks and QB pressures, a defensive plan that puts him in the crosshairs with tough matchups that usually dominate, when they know his shortcomings and despite these challenges he makes a lot of plays and calls signals for a top 5 defense statistically. The coaches never improved his pressure skill set and play him on every down. FA and the draft focused on getting to the QB in the last two seasons. Those selections failed miserably, (AJ, Addison, Rousseau, Butler) and in 2 games against KC in the postseason, Mahomes had his way. Blame the coaches and our DBs for allowing Hill, Kelce and the others for the obscene amount of passing yards. Edmunds is just an easy target. 

Everyone seems to forget it was Milano that gave up the TD to Kelsey in that playoff loss, not Edmunds.  Our loss to NE was a long run given up by Hyde and....yep, Milano. Replay that particular play and watch Milano from the snap to the cutback. WTH was he doing? That was not on Edmunds. 

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Ignored.  

 

Love that option.  This board is getting better and better.  

Oh no....how will I ever get through the day

[HamptonBillsfan]

46 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Everyone seems to forget it was Milano that gave up the TD to Kelsey in that playoff loss, not Edmunds.  Our loss to NE was a long run given up by Hyde and....yep, Milano. Replay that particular play and watch Milano from the snap to the cutback. WTH was he doing? That was not on Edmunds. 

My prediction, with the better D-line we assembled and the improved DBs, both giving Tremaine less of a bullseye on him, he rides this season into an extension. 

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

My prediction, with the better D-line we assembled and the improved DBs, both giving Tremaine less of a bullseye on him, he rides this season into an extension. 

I definitely hope so. Plus, you don't put a rookie in as the QB of this defense during a year that we're all in on a SB run.