New Bills stadium deal is bad for taxpayers, according to Yahoo!

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, T master said:

Well if you think about it any deal where the tax payer has to pay for a new stadium for a company that makes Billions of dollars a year really isn't a good deal for the tax payer .

 

I was listening to the news on the radio here in Nashville the other day & the Titans want a new stadium too one that has a dome so they can be in contention to bring a Super Bowl here so the news folks went out & asked locals how they felt about it .

 

One of the people they asked was a restaurant owner & in so many words he said - When i as a business owner wanted to open my restaurant i had to pay for the cost of opening my business  i didn't go to the county or state to ask for the tax payers to help pay for me to open my business & i only make 10's of thousands possibly .

 

Yet here is a NFL team that the owners are billionaires & the NFL that is a multi billion dollar company that sign their players to multi million dollar contracts of which that money is mostly generated by middle class people that support the team with their middle class pay .

 

Then these muti billion dollar businesses go to the state & county gov't and have them increase taxes to middle class people that already support the team with tickets & march purchases to pay for a new Billion+ dollar stadium and once the stadium debt is paid for have you ever heard of the tax rate decreasing because of that stadium debt being paid off ? 🤔

 

I haven't & the county & state still charges that extra in taxes . So that restaurant/business owner made a great argument of why he was against the city of Nashville getting a new stadium with a tax increase & if they did that it should be paid for by the NFL & the team .

 

Or seeing as the city does reap some financial reward from the stadium that amount of the loan should be more of a 60% paid by the NFL & the team 40% paid by the city which would make more sense than the opposite . 

 

After that interview hereing that business mans opinion i was like DUH that makes total sense !

 

If those multi billion dollar companies can go have the gov't pay for a stadium why can't the common man go have to them also to pay for people to open a restaurant or corner store or what ever ...

 

Definitely food for thought !! But that being said the NFL has the city, state & county gov't by the balls if they want to keep the team in said city .

Terrible Point.

 

They can and do give money - local, county and even state levels give all kinds of money to local businesses.  They give tax breaks, loan assistance, and sometime 0% loans depending on the business and the expected revenue and job creation. They even do it to home owners with things like a Star Rebate for elderly people to reduce Residential Tax rate.
 

When my business wanted to add a third floor onto our building - we had to get approval as the area was zoned for 2 story buildings.  When we got that approval - we also were given a 10 million dollar - 0% loan from the county because we employed more than 500 employees total and we wanted to increase it by 10%.

 

We also we’re given tax breaks to remodel and add parking to the current space.

 

There are all kinds of funding available that has different levels of payback.  The stadium is no different - they are using 850 million to build it, but as the leaser - the Pegulas will be paying some of it back - along with fees on tickets, parking, food, etc to recoup the money.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

300 million over 7 years doesn't seem like a lot and i doubt that is even net income. Projected over 30 years it might barely cover a new stadium? 

 

Meanwhile they keep the team here and NY/Erie County rake in the tax revenue from players contracts, coach contracts, organizational payroll, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc etc etc. 

 

The fairest way is a split between public and private funding which is what they did. Yes the state paid a bit more but they dont have the leverage being a small market team.

 

It's 383 million.  It's income EBITDA.

[Doc]

Economists are bad for the taxpayers.  STFU gomer.

[BillsShredder83]

EF Yahoo and this dude! Ef NY politicians (on every move in the last 20 yrs minus this one).  EF NY-sh'City. EF The Jets, Mets, Yankees too!

GOOOOO BILLLLLLLLS (the ones in Buffalo for the next 35+years minimum)!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

Well said.. tired of reading about what outside "Economists" think about taxpayer funded stadiums.. its predictable and tiresome.. 

 

Outside of....Buffalo?  The information regarding the impact of new stadiums on their surroundings isn't going to be suddenly different for Buffalo as it has been everywhere else.  This makes no sense.

 

4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

From the headline of the article I thought this guy actually studied the details of the deal but clearly he hasn’t if he doesn’t even know that the state is no longer responsible for maintenance costs. Or game day operating costs (like they were before).

 

It looks like it’s just a lazily written article that just rehashes all the same old generic arguments against taxpayer funded stadiums without actually looking at any of the details of this particular deal.

 

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/poloncarz-erie-county-no-longer-in-the-football-business

 

 

The article you cited discusses only the County's obligations under the new contract, not the states.  All told, including the 600 milliom state, 250 million county, 6 million capital improvement fund per year for 30 years, 6.7 million per year times 15 for maintenance, 4 million a year for capital improvement (from Erie) and 900k a year to capital improvements from Bills lease payments.  

 

Total public costs 1.13 billion upfront +ongoing.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, T master said:

Well if you think about it any deal where the tax payer has to pay for a new stadium for a company that makes Billions of dollars a year really isn't a good deal for the tax payer .

 

I was listening to the news on the radio here in Nashville the other day & the Titans want a new stadium too one that has a dome so they can be in contention to bring a Super Bowl here so the news folks went out & asked locals how they felt about it .

 

One of the people they asked was a restaurant owner & in so many words he said - When i as a business owner wanted to open my restaurant i had to pay for the cost of opening my business  i didn't go to the county or state to ask for the tax payers to help pay for me to open my business & i only make 10's of thousands possibly .

 

Yet here is a NFL team that the owners are billionaires & the NFL that is a multi billion dollar company that sign their players to multi million dollar contracts of which that money is mostly generated by middle class people that support the team with their middle class pay .

 

Then these muti billion dollar businesses go to the state & county gov't and have them increase taxes to middle class people that already support the team with tickets & march purchases to pay for a new Billion+ dollar stadium and once the stadium debt is paid for have you ever heard of the tax rate decreasing because of that stadium debt being paid off ? 🤔

 

I haven't & the county & state still charges that extra in taxes . So that restaurant/business owner made a great argument of why he was against the city of Nashville getting a new stadium with a tax increase & if they did that it should be paid for by the NFL & the team .

 

Or seeing as the city does reap some financial reward from the stadium that amount of the loan should be more of a 60% paid by the NFL & the team 40% paid by the city which would make more sense than the opposite . 

 

After that interview hereing that business mans opinion i was like DUH that makes total sense !

 

If those multi billion dollar companies can go have the gov't pay for a stadium why can't the common man go have to them also to pay for people to open a restaurant or corner store or what ever ...

 

Definitely food for thought !! But that being said the NFL has the city, state & county gov't by the balls if they want to keep the team in said city .

The restaurant owner's argument makes no sense in the Bills case.  Does the restaurant owner own the land and building he runs his business or does he rent from someone else who owns the property LIKE THE BILLS DO?  If he rents it, did he pay the entire cost to build the building, because if he did the owner fleeced him.  Maybe he paid to make the restaurant fit the owner's building, but he would be a fool to build the building unless he owns it & has a land lease.  If he owns everything then it makes sense for him to have built the restaurant himself because he controls all of the property and ISN'T A TENANT-THE BILLS ARE TENANTS, NOT OWNERS OF THE STADIUM. 

 

There's no comparison between a PRIVATE business and a PUBLIC Stadium.  

[dwight in philly]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Outside of....Buffalo?  The information regarding the impact of new stadiums on their surroundings isn't going to be suddenly different for Buffalo as it has been everywhere else.  This makes no sense.

 

 

 

The article you cited discusses only the County's obligations under the new contract, not the states.  All told, including the 600 milliom state, 250 million county, 6 million capital improvement fund per year for 30 years, 6.7 million per year times 15 for maintenance, 4 million a year for capital improvement (from Erie) and 900k a year to capital improvements from Bills lease payments.  

 

Total public costs 1.13 billion upfront +ongoing.

Seriously.. who gives a Sh--t , let it go.. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Ask yourself, who is behind these articles? People who actually care about taxpayers? Or someone working to scuttle the deal so the Bills move? Am I being paranoid?

 

I also doubt the NYS deal is the "worst in history." Not even close.

 

If anyone wants to speak to him:  https://www.holycross.edu/academics/programs/economics-and-accounting/faculty/victor-a-matheson

 

It's a sports economist who has studied stadium deals for years for whom  you provided a link to his academic employer email address.

 

That's who.

[TBBills]

46 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's a sports economist who has studied stadium deals for years for whom  you provided a link to his academic employer email address.

 

That's who.

It's a guy who wanted clicks so he made this article.

[without a drought]

I guess I shouldn't be waiting around for my checks from the state and county once the stadium is up and running.

[Mr. WEO]

38 minutes ago, TBBills said:

It's a guy who wanted clicks so he made this article.

he didn’t make his academic field of study as an economist for the clicks (perhaps for the chicks, though?)

 

Anyway, all internet articles are made for the clicks—in this case it’s yahoo, not the Economics Professor, who is getting them

[DCofNC]

Simple math, just in income taxes ALONE, it’s worth it.  You have 8 regular season games to collect taxes from all of the players at ~7%, but let’s just look at Josh Allen, one singular player, whom they’ve gotten to take over 8% of his income, let’s simplify, on average, his new deal is worth over 3M per year to NYS in taxes.   Pegulas will profit about the same as JA, there’s another 3M+, then the rest of the team, you are looking at 12M+ and all of these numbers are conservative as hell, that’s an easy 18M a year, 30 year investment on increasing returns, but again, simple math, the investment is back to NYS and we haven’t talked about the actual rake they pull  from the other teams or the extra cash infusion to the restaurant’s, Hotels, NyS Thruway, gas stations and all of the employees for the team, game day staff etc.  It makes sense JUST in football, forget anything else that happens at the stadium as a bonus.  The author can’t see past their own nose.

[Mister Defense]

Yahoo??????

 

Is that still a thing?

 

I thought they had folded all of their business operations except for their much degraded email.

 

I'll just do what I have done for all the unwarranted stadium criticism to date, cover my ears and yell to drown out the ugly, negative voices.

 

They are nothing--and we have everything...

 

We have the Bills! 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Simple math, just in income taxes ALONE, it’s worth it.  You have 8 regular season games to collect taxes from all of the players at ~7%, but let’s just look at Josh Allen, one singular player, whom they’ve gotten to take over 8% of his income, let’s simplify, on average, his new deal is worth over 3M per year to NYS in taxes.   Pegulas will profit about the same as JA, there’s another 3M+, then the rest of the team, you are looking at 12M+ and all of these numbers are conservative as hell, that’s an easy 18M a year, 30 year investment on increasing returns, but again, simple math, the investment is back to NYS and we haven’t talked about the actual rake they pull  from the other teams or the extra cash infusion to the restaurant’s, Hotels, NyS Thruway, gas stations and all of the employees for the team, game day staff etc.  It makes sense JUST in football, forget anything else that happens at the stadium as a bonus.  The author can’t see past their own nose.

NYS is already making all that tax money from the team/players without the new stadium……

[EasternOHBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

he didn’t make his academic field of study as an economist for the clicks (perhaps for the chicks, though?)

 

Anyway, all internet articles are made for the clicks—in this case it’s yahoo, not the Economics Professor, who is getting them

 

How come the fact that the Pegulas wanted 100% public funding isn't the story?

 

Yeah, these kinds of stories are ridiculous... we have a new stadium and the Bills are staying and we're majorly successful right now. UTTER BS that we have to read this garbage.

[TBBills]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

How many times can a state screw over their public? Bad deal from a greedy billionaire, makes us all poorer. 
 

 Be prepared for PSL and huge increase most average buffalonions will not be able to afford. You ready to shell out $2500 for two tickets and a couple of dogs? Not me. 
 

 

The movie purge is not far off from reality. 

[T master]

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The restaurant owner's argument makes no sense in the Bills case.  Does the restaurant owner own the land and building he runs his business or does he rent from someone else who owns the property LIKE THE BILLS DO?  If he rents it, did he pay the entire cost to build the building, because if he did the owner fleeced him.  Maybe he paid to make the restaurant fit the owner's building, but he would be a fool to build the building unless he owns it & has a land lease.  If he owns everything then it makes sense for him to have built the restaurant himself because he controls all of the property and ISN'T A TENANT-THE BILLS ARE TENANTS, NOT OWNERS OF THE STADIUM. 

 

There's no comparison between a PRIVATE business and a PUBLIC Stadium.  

 

That i couldn't tell you i was just repeating what i heard him say on the interview . But through all the reply's i have learned a bit about this subject which i did not know anything about as some of you probably noticed . 

[Southern_Bills]

List one deal the government (local or federal) that is good for the taxpayers...I'll wait 😂

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

NYS is already making all that tax money from the team/players without the new stadium……

 

And once again without a deal - all that profit goes away to another place.  If out of NYS - that is lost revenue that equates to the cost of the stadium.

 

 

[Big Turk]

Just bitter NYC people that are upset they aren't bilking the rest of the state's taxpayers to fund things out there like what happens 95% of the time.

 

Of course fails to mention that like $450 million is coming from revenue generated in WNY from the Seneca Casinos.