Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 10 hours ago, JerseyBills said: I love yall but you're going to be eating crow on this one. I'm the OP and I understand he had some issues but he also only played half a rookie year and was on the active roster once he was healthy. Pretty clear the coaching staff likes him. Idk why yall are so quick to write him off. 🤷🏻♂️ His college tape is unbelievable! I'm telling ya guys , he's going to have an impact on the 2022 , Superbowl Champion, Buffalo Bills. ✌❤ I just believe if he stays healthy, he'll be a valuable weapon on offense First off what NFL player doesn't have unbelievable college tap? Factor in was against ACC competition doesn't help his cause. What specific evidence do you have to show the coaching staff likes him, other than he's still on the roster. Every year there are rookies who hardly play for whatever reason, bu showed just a little glimpse of hope, and hoping they take the big step the next year. Some do, but many don't. Certainly havine a QB like Allen can make any WR look good. Don't think anyone is ready to write him off, but when you title a thread with "breakout star" on a player who has shown nothing and state we don't need a WR based on this is just laughable. And not at all surprising that you have 7 pages of responses telling you that you're crazy. You could be right, there certainly are players drafted low that become stars, Diggs himself was one of them, but the odds aren't in your favor. All you have is wishful thinking at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: First off what NFL player doesn't have unbelievable college tap? Factor in was against ACC competition doesn't help his cause. What specific evidence do you have to show the coaching staff likes him, other than he's still on the roster. Every year there are rookies who hardly play for whatever reason, bu showed just a little glimpse of hope, and hoping they take the big step the next year. Some do, but many don't. Certainly havine a QB like Allen can make any WR look good. Don't think anyone is ready to write him off, but when you title a thread with "breakout star" on a player who has shown nothing and state we don't need a WR based on this is just laughable. And not at all surprising that you have 7 pages of responses telling you that you're crazy. You could be right, there certainly are players drafted low that become stars, Diggs himself was one of them, but the odds aren't in your favor. All you have is wishful thinking at this point. Isn't that the definition of a breakout star though? A player that hasn't shown anything , that breaks out. I'm basing my theory off his insane, elite speed and the fact that he made the active roster over Hodgins for example, after being on ir as a rookie, shows me the coaches like him alot. Just a player I see that has a ton of potential, that should have an impact if he stays healthy. Like I said in the op , I could see him, McKenzie and Diggs in 3 wide sets every now n then just to kill the defense with speed On 4/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, Deadstroke said: My 2 cents. First of all most are saying 4.45 isn't fast; well, it is. But really, it seems apparent he's faster than that with 4.3s galore in college. Then, yeah, he fumbled, but lots of rookies get nervous their first couple of times out. IMO he needs a BIG look in training camp this year because he IS fast and has big potential. Well said! Completely agree. He has elite speed Edited April 7, 2022 by JerseyBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, 1ManRaid said: Your attempt to proactively gloat about his upcoming success is essentially blowing your life savings on a stack of lottery tickets and saying "you'll see this was a wise financial decision when I win the jackpot". If you happen to end up being "right" about him, it doesn't change the fact that this excessive optimism was baseless homerism for a personal favorite player. He simply hasn't shown anything to indicate your prediction is based on anything tangible. I'm not saying he won't be good, I hope he will, but the evidence simply isn't there. If he breaks out as you hope, you'll proclaim yourself a genius. If he doesn't and this gets dragged up, then come the excuses about him being held back somehow. I don't care about being right. I just see a super talented WR that had a rough rookie year - IR and the fumbling issues, and envision this elite coaching staff coaching him up in year 2. I don't give 2 cents about being right I just believe we have a legit WR on our hands and can use our draft capital elsewhere Again, he reminds me of a Mecole Hardmon type of WR , a pure speed guy that we can plug in on certain sets Edited April 7, 2022 by JerseyBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I don’t even think he’s that fast. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 He sure was fun to watch in college....it didnt translate well in his first year BUT it was his first year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Sauce Gardner interviewed just now on NFLN. They asked him what do you say to critics that say you didn't play against anyone. He said this and then only one name - "Man everybody's good........There are a lot of WRs thats very good that I went up against from my conference....for example....Gabriel Davis.....he's standing out for the Buffalo Bills; I was guarding him as a freshmen. Our conference is very underrated." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 2 hours ago, JerseyBills said: Isn't that the definition of a breakout star though? A player that hasn't shown anything , that breaks out. I'm basing my theory off his insane, elite speed and the fact that he made the active roster over Hodgins for example, after being on ir as a rookie, shows me the coaches like him alot. Just a player I see that has a ton of potential, that should have an impact if he stays healthy. Like I said in the op , I could see him, McKenzie and Diggs in 3 wide sets every now n then just to kill the defense with speed But he hasn't done anything, so to label him a potential breakout star is based without any evidence. After the 2020 season if you labeled Davis a breakout star, would have got little argument as he showed potential. It seems team will always favor and keep the newest toy over an older one. Hodgins didn't show much as a rookie, they saw him for a year, so lets see what the new guy can do. If the Bills draft another WR late this year, 5th round or later and they decide to cut him in September and keep Stevenson, to me that would mean something. To me speed is over rated for a couple reasons. How few deep passes are actually completed, there's just too much that can go wrong on a pass thrown 30 to 40 + yards, over thrown, under thrown, pass takes receiver out of bounds, wind, momentum going wrong way, etc. All these things can happen on short passes to, but the impact is higher on longer passes. Read a stat that most QB's average less than 10% long passes to begin with and the ones who throw long the most works out to about 4 to 5 passes a game. About a year ago I compared John Brown's rookie time against Davis rookie time on the 40 yard dash. Basically at 40 yards Brown would be about 5 feet ahead of Davis, but Davis is bigger and makes up some of that with a larger catch radius. When you factor in how many long passes are off the mark, 5 feet doesn't help that much. Yeah speed can kill the defense, but only if it actually is completed which isn't very often. IMO the most important traits for a WR in order are; hands, moves, size, then speed and wouldn't argue with anyone who puts size ahead of moves. For the reasons above speed is nice, but other things matter more to me. Can it happen sure, but think there's a better chance he doesn't even make the roster. Assuming they draft a WR fairly high, that puts 5 guys ahead of Stevenson, he'll have to beat out Kumerow just to be active and I'd give the edge to Kumerow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 We already have an underrated star WR on this team and his name is ..... DUKE. JOHNS- I mean.... ROBERT. FOST- I mean... RAY-RAY. MCCL- hm... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 9:20 PM, GolfandBills said: You mean when they benched him ? Typical of McD to bench a superstar ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 On 4/1/2022 at 4:26 AM, 1ManRaid said: Lol this is hilarious. OP is just making a fool of themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Hes not great at returning kicks, and didn't have an impact at WR , so far no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 I believe this is what the kids call being ratioed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I believe this is what the kids call being ratioed. It's easy to get ratioed on a fanatic site where even a measured take of neutrality is considered an affront. What makes this one so impressive is that the OP posted a pro-fanatic optimistic take. And they still hate it quite passionately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Ehhhh here's hoping and it would be fantastic if this turns out to be true, but when you have a generational talent like Allen at QB you invest in the most advanced weaponry year after year. If Josh throws for 7,000 yards this year and every single one of our receivers has a career year you still go get another, brand new WR or TE next year. I'm still thinking WR in the 1st, definitely one before the second round ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 7:53 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: To me speed is over rated for a couple reasons. How few deep passes are actually completed, there's just too much that can go wrong on a pass thrown 30 to 40 + yards, over thrown, under thrown, pass takes receiver out of bounds, wind, momentum going wrong way, etc. All these things can happen on short passes to, but the impact is higher on longer passes. Read a stat that most QB's average less than 10% long passes to begin with and the ones who throw long the most works out to about 4 to 5 passes a game. About a year ago I compared John Brown's rookie time against Davis rookie time on the 40 yard dash. Basically at 40 yards Brown would be about 5 feet ahead of Davis, but Davis is bigger and makes up some of that with a larger catch radius. When you factor in how many long passes are off the mark, 5 feet doesn't help that much. Yeah speed can kill the defense, but only if it actually is completed which isn't very often. Well, a couple of points here. First, while you're right about how long passes are a relatively infrequent play and in your list of "things that can go wrong", there's a counter point that any WR who is good at tracking the ball can adjust for an underthrown pass. But a true burner, the guy with the "extra gear", can adjust to an OVER thrown pass or one which the wind picks up and carries. Second, there's a thread on the board right now showing the effect of arm strength on a long pass. It's an under-appreciated point that arm strength affects throws to the sideline and over the middle of the field - it allows the QB to safely fit the ball into windows he couldn't manage with less zip. But the same thing applies to WR speed. It's not just a factor on deep routes. Tyreek Hill has been killing teams with his ability to take a short pass, turn upfield, and smoke everyone. Defenders think they've got an angle on him, and he turns on the jets and they miss. Then there's the ability to outrun defenders on a simple crosser, or just to execute the route more quickly before the pass rush swallows the QB. Frankly, I thought that's where Beasley had lost a bit this season even before the rib injury, though maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, don't under-rate the importance of those extra 5 feet in the same time. They don't just matter vertically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) On 4/7/2022 at 6:02 PM, JerseyBills said: Isn't that the definition of a breakout star though? A player that hasn't shown anything , that breaks out. I'm basing my theory off his insane, elite speed and the fact that he made the active roster over Hodgins for example, after being on ir as a rookie, shows me the coaches like him alot. Just a player I see that has a ton of potential, that should have an impact if he stays healthy. Like I said in the op , I could see him, McKenzie and Diggs in 3 wide sets every now n then just to kill the defense with speed Well said! Completely agree. He has elite speed No, that is literally not the definition of a breakout star candidate, it's the opposite. Breakout star candidate is Josh Allen after his second year where he showed improved mechanics and accuracy but hadn't put it all together yet, or Gabe Davis after he actually showed skill in a deep WR corps with impending departures of older WRs. Stevenson is a candidate for "if he gets his head out of his butt and stops fumbling, and develops some field vision and awareness, we might be able to use him as a passable kick returner or speed decoy on offense to give better WRs a breather for a couple snaps". Also the fact you have yet to acknowledge that you thought he was from the wrong conference, and left a thumbs up on a comment saying "if you believe, it will happen" says a lot. Edited April 10, 2022 by 1ManRaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 11:42 PM, Rigotz said: DUKE. JOHNS DUKE.WILL.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 8:54 AM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Factor in was against ACC competition doesn't help his cause. As noted in earlier response, Univ Houston plays in AAC, the American Athletic Conference. Weakens OP's take even more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) On 3/31/2022 at 10:26 PM, JerseyBills said: He was sitting behind great WRs. He was a late rd rookie, what did you expect? And he made the active roster late in the year. He has freakish speed. I wouldn’t exactly call a 4.45 40, freakish. It’s average(4.48 for nfl WRs) Especially with his poor vision that makes him even slower. Edited April 10, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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