njbuff Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said: Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said: Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming 3 minutes ago, njbuff said: Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field. Was crowder not the one that took a crosser about 50 yards to the house against us last year? I definitely think he adds a bit of pop there, and everything i've read said he's an absolute technician in the slot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: Was crowder not the one that took a crosser about 50 yards to the house against us last year? I definitely think he adds a bit of pop there, and everything i've read said he's an absolute technician in the slot. Crowder's problem is that he never stays on the field, hence his availability for the Bills. If he can remain available, he can be a huge upgrade over Beasley and relegating poor poor McKenzie to gadget duties. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender? As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder. Most free agents want to see what they’re worth on the open market. Getting to free agency is a HUGE deal for players. It’s, in most cases, their only chance to make life (generation) changing wealth. It doesn’t matter if it’s RFA of UFA… any chance to have multiple parties lobbying for your services gives them an outstanding opportunity to make more money. So yes, nobody is making Bates an offer at greater than $4M/year in return for a RD2 pick. Bates gladly signs his RFA tender for 1 year, starts for a Super Bowl contenders and waits to see what the market looks like next year… where he’s not inhibited at all by the RFA process. Meaning the highest bidder has the best chance. The point being, RFA more often than not don’t sign long term extensions with their original team after accepting the 1 year tender, because they want to reach FA. The time to get a long term deal worked out was before the RFA tender was given… after it’s given you’re most likely not inking a guy to a long term deal. Your point about us “not being able to make an offer on our terms” and being at the mercy of the “highest bidder” is just wrong. That opportunity was BEFORE the tender was placed. Edited March 28, 2022 by JGMcD2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, njbuff said: Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field. What? He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league. Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020. But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Shake_My_Head said: What? He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league. Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020. But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance. I'm talking about his game day speed that has fallen off a cliff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Just now, njbuff said: I'm talking about his game day speed that has fallen off a cliff. I'm talking about effectiveness. He was still was a valuable third-down difference maker--and Crowder will have big shoes to fill, IMO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Most free agents want to see what they’re worth on the open market. Getting to free agency is a HUGE deal for players. It’s, in most cases, their only chance to make life (generation) changing wealth. It doesn’t matter if it’s RFA of UFA… any chance to have multiple parties lobbying for your services gives them an outstanding opportunity to make more money. So yes, nobody is making Bates an offer at greater than $4M/year in return for a RD2 pick. Bates gladly signs his RFA tender for 1 year, starts for a Super Bowl contenders and waits to see what the market looks like next year… where he’s not inhibited at all by the RFA process. Meaning the highest bidder has the best chance. The point being, RFA more often than not don’t sign long term extensions with their original team after accepting the 1 year tender, because they want to reach FA. The time to get a long term deal worked out was before the RFA tender was given… after it’s given you’re most likely not inking a guy to a long term deal. Your point about us “not being able to make an offer on our terms” and being at the mercy of the “highest bidder” is just wrong. That opportunity was BEFORE the tender was placed. Great take and well written. To add, allowing Bates to go to market and see his value around the league let the Bills know they were making a good deal. Bates’ situation is a very unique one and I think it would have been very difficult to project his value. Now we know, and he knows, and we get to have him for 4 years for a deal the market deemed fair. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 That’s starter money my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Edit: it wasn’t me. But you know who you are how long has it been since you've had to use the "this is fine" dude? Been a nice stretch for Bills fans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I'm actually surprised this happened and now it's pretty clear this team views Bates as locked into a starting spot this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Malazan said: BPA isn't a thing. Most teams use something that if you describe it would be "BVA" aka Best Value Available. Drafting BPA is a bad strategy. To explain this in the extreme, the BPA could be a QB.. a QB at 25would be a massive waste on the Bills though.. Same thing if you look in the draft and you're in the 2nd round and the BPA is a player who's going to have a hard time making the team then.. well, you have better value elsewhere. It's not drafting for need, but it's a balancing act. Then you look at things like a safety... don't draft a safety in the 1st because solid productive players are available in FA every year at that position and even the cost of the elite ones don't compare to pass rushers and wide receivers. It's more like BPAPNNGN (best player available at a position of not necessarily greatest need). And BPA is largely subjective after the first 10-15 picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender? As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder. When do you think we would be making that offer 'on our terms?' Bates only has to sign the tender, if we had given him the 2nd round one, and that's it for this season. The reasons to give him the 2nd round tender, are imho, twofold. Firstly, you want to keep the player (retrospectively obvious). Secondly, you are protecting your 'investment' by getting a 2nd round pick should someone actually sign him to an offer sheet. The reality being with respect to Bates, that the original round offer doesn't get you any return at all, as he was a UDFA. Personally, I was of the opinion, that we should have tendered him at the 2nd round level, but I was more concerned about 'protecting an asset' than particularly thinking about the implications going forward. i.e. the greater potential to lose him next year when he would have become a FA. For a starting Guard, I thought that the $3.98m was a decent deal, but with Bates, you get the added value of being able to play any position along the line, something that very few seemed to be thinking added any real weight to his value. As things have turned out, Beane looks like he's pulled a masterstroke, assuming Bates continues to play well. 4 years at £4.25m average, is, imho, terrific value for a guy as versatile as Bates, who will be a starter as well. It also represents additional value going forward, because if Saffold is 'one and done', then we have a ready made replacement at LG. I wanted us to retain Bates all along, but the way in which it has panned out, is far better for us long term. Essentially, I was wrong about the 2nd Round tender being the right move, and Beane deserves a good deal of Kudos for having the cohones to see this through (by only putting the lowest tender on him). 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said: Not possible. I heard from a reliable poster here that he is a Bear! Really curious about the terms. If it is 4 years this will be a recurring thread theme one way or another. Welcome Ryan "Rick" Bates, new Bills legend! @John from Riverside said what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said: Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming 29 minutes ago, njbuff said: Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field. 16 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said: What? He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league. Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020. But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance. 19 minutes ago, njbuff said: Crowder's problem is that he never stays on the field, hence his availability for the Bills. If he can remain available, he can be a huge upgrade over Beasley and relegating poor poor McKenzie to gadget duties. 😁 Best Season: Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365 Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354 Last Season: Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327 Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305 Career: Crowder (28 years old / 96 games / 18 games lost to injury) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895 Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games / 2 games lost to injury) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC: 2446 Edited March 28, 2022 by Malazan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Great news, hated the idea of losing a player that we developed into a starter. Good OL are not easy to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 hours ago, jkeerie said: I really believe this was the plan all along...to sign Bates to a long term deal, but let the market determine the dollar figure. Will Wolford says "hi." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Malazan said: Best Season: Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365 Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354 Last Season: Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327 Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305 Career: Crowder (28 years old / 96 games) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895 Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC: 2446 Actually Crowder's best season was in 2016 (67, 847, 12.6, 7, 67.7%, don't know). And it was better than Beasley's best season prior to joining the Bills. The question is staying healthy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 The Bills now need to curb stomp the Bears this season for interfering in our own family matters. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Malazan said: Best Season: Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365 Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354 Last Season: Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327 Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305 Career: Crowder (28 years old / 96 games) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895 Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC: 2446 What was Cole's best season prior to playing with Josh Allen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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