wppete Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Browns fans are leaving and becoming Bills fans in anger over the Watson trade. People are not happy, Can’t blame them. good article from Ryan Talbot. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2022/03/from-dawg-pound-to-bills-mafia-browns-supporters-leaving-fan-base-following-deshaun-watson-trade.html 11 1 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 I wouldn't root for him as my QB, makes sense. 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordong Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 So glad we don’t have that problem…. The nfl is really showing it true colors …. This is going to backfire on Cleveland feel sorry for those fan they deserve way better than that crap. 13 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Feel bad for another blue collar town….Jimmy Haslam is a scumbag. 5 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Welcome aboard !!! 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Cleveland is desperate, that's the only way to look at this. They had the overall #1 and got a QB that deserved to be a Day 2 pick. They now give up three MORE 1st rounders to get a QB. At the same time they're having trouble holding on to the talent they already assembled. They still have Myles Garrett, two great RBs, and have traded for an aging Amari Cooper. But not having 1st rounders is a killer in a salary cap era, where the key to success is drafting good players who are cheap for the first four or five years. Watson is an excellent QB but the team is eating its seed corn now and will starve later. Plus they're in a division with Burrow and Lamar Jackson. And Trubisky who is a lot better than Chicago made him look. Success this year for Cleveland is NOT guaranteed, and their future looks doubtful. Desperation makes people and teams do very doubtful things. 6 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 I saw some of this on Reddit. Tons of Browns fans were posting about becoming Bills fans and their disgust with the Browns for trading for Watson. I think, in particular, any female Browns fans will be inclined to leave the team. Tough to root for a serial sexual predator. 13 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 30 minutes ago, MJS said: I saw some of this on Reddit. Tons of Browns fans were posting about becoming Bills fans and their disgust with the Browns for trading for Watson. I think, in particular, any female Browns fans will be inclined to leave the team. Tough to root for a serial sexual predator. Big Ben got called names & had r*** jokes thrown his way his entire career over one public incident, so how does one just ignore the MANY women & dozen+ charges levied at Watson? People don't tend to overlook THAT many similar allegations. At some point, it feels like benefit of the doubt has been thoroughly burned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Do we really want to let the factory of sadness fans in? That would be like the cooler in Vegas standing next to you at the craps table. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, BigDingus said: Big Ben got called names & had r*** jokes thrown his way his entire career over one public incident, so how does one just ignore the MANY women & dozen+ charges levied at Watson? People don't tend to overlook THAT many similar allegations. At some point, it feels like benefit of the doubt has been thoroughly burned. Yeah, a lot of them referenced Big Ben and how they continually bashed the Steelers for that, so now that their team has an even worse situation they can't be hypocritical and just accept it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 While I totally understand the reaction of Browns fans because the allegations against Watson are particularly unpleasant I also believe in due legal process. In the eyes of the law he is an innocent man. Let's see what happens with the civil process. They are likely settled out of court and we might never know the truth but as someone who believes in the legal process while recognising its imperfections I find the court of public opinion very troublesome. 5 2 2 3 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 hours ago, wppete said: Browns fans are leaving and becoming Bills fans in anger over the Watson trade. People are not happy, Can’t blame them. good article from Ryan Talbot. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2022/03/from-dawg-pound-to-bills-mafia-browns-supporters-leaving-fan-base-following-deshaun-watson-trade.html Cmon over. I always had a soft spot for Browns fans as they had it even worse than us during our drought. the Browns better get a decent draft pick or two for BM. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While I totally understand the reaction of Browns fans because the allegations against Watson are particularly unpleasant I also believe in due legal process. In the eyes of the law he is an innocent man. Let's see what happens with the civil process. They are likely settled out of court and we might never know the truth but as someone who believes in the legal process while recognising its imperfections I find the court of public opinion very troublesome. Definitely not an innocent man, just not enough evidence to convict. He's a sick individual. Read the sports illustrated article. Do you think OJ didn't do it too? If it was your wife or girlfriend or sister who was sexually assaulted I bet you would feel much differently 5 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While I totally understand the reaction of Browns fans because the allegations against Watson are particularly unpleasant I also believe in due legal process. In the eyes of the law he is an innocent man. Let's see what happens with the civil process. They are likely settled out of court and we might never know the truth but as someone who believes in the legal process while recognising its imperfections I find the court of public opinion very troublesome. There’s a HUGE “human” difference between “innocent in the eyes of the law” and not proven guilty in the court of law. OJ was found not guilty. You may dismiss “the court of public opinion”, which can be fueled by misinformation and prejudice, but there is also common sense. In this case there is a great of evidence to suggest that Watson is a serial sexual predator or at the very least a pretty bad dude. How anyone could dismiss that is beyond me. It’s human to arrive at the conclusion that a person not found guilty by the courts is indeed guilty of their crimes. On the other hand, as we witness too often, it is human to embrace cognitive dissonance to find a convenient work around to things they would normally find repulsive. 8 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 I see a lot of people saying there's a lot of sleazeballs in the NFL. That doesn't make it right. Or that they are warriors so we can't expect them to act like choir boys off the field. Bad take. This is not some random player on their team, this is their QB, the FACE of their franchise! He's going to be on the billboards and advertisements and commercials. He now represents the entire city of Cleveland. Gross. Think of how much we see Josh in the public eye. Now imagine if he was likely a serial sexual predator. It would be pretty uncomfortable to root for a team like that. But hey, as long as they win a few more games right? 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Definitely not an innocent man, just not enough evidence to convict. He's a sick individual. Read the sports illustrated article. Do you think OJ didn't do it too? If it was your wife or girlfriend or sister who was sexually assaulted I bet you would feel much differently Not only not enough evidence to convict.... not enough evidence to give any reasonable prospect of conviction. That is why the grand jury didn't indict. Does that mean nothing happened? No, it doesn't but really what I believe is irrelevant. I believe that the justice system while imperfect is the best option we have for determining innocence and guilt and it is certainly better than the court of public opinion. I have spent most of the last 15 years of my career researching justice system models, looking at systems worldwide and advising governments of all political persuasions in the UK on justice system reform. I am deeply concerned about a growing trend in society towards mob mentality, driven by social media, and the court of public opinion with no checks, no balances, no objective standards replacing the justice system in terms of assessing guilt and driving punishment. And as to your final sentence, I say this honestly and sincerely, no I wouldn't. You either stand by your principles and your belief in the system or you don't. I do. However difficult the case. Indeed in a case in which a member of my family is involved currently where they have been left in an unfortunate situation (not a sexual assault and I understand the particular sensitivity around such allegations) I have said to them that I cannot in good conscience support their position because from a pure legal perspective it doesn't make sense. 25 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: There’s a HUGE “human” difference between “innocent in the eyes of the law” and not proven guilty in the court of law. OJ was found not guilty. You may dismiss “the court of public opinion”, which can be fueled by misinformation and prejudice, but there is also common sense. In this case there is a great of evidence to suggest that Watson is a serial sexual predator or at the very least a pretty bad dude. How anyone could dismiss that is beyond me. It’s human to arrive at the conclusion that a person not found guilty by the courts is indeed guilty of their crimes. On the other hand, as we witness too often, it is human to embrace cognitive dissonance to find a convenient work around to things they would normally find repulsive. Respectfully, that is not for you to decide. That is for a court to decide. EDIT: And just to be clear I have said from pretty much the start of this story that I believe there is something to the allegations. But what I believe is not in any way a substitute for legal due process. A court of law decides on guilt or innocence (and on liability in civil matters) not the court of public opinion. On that point I am afraid I am totally immovable. Edited March 19, 2022 by GunnerBill 5 4 2 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 The Haslam's forced Browns fans into this moral conundrum and I'm not going to judge any of them. I'd personally be out though because a Super Bowl victory with Watson as the face of the franchise/franchise QB would feel hollow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordong Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: While I totally understand the reaction of Browns fans because the allegations against Watson are particularly unpleasant I also believe in due legal process. In the eyes of the law he is an innocent man. Let's see what happens with the civil process. They are likely settled out of court and we might never know the truth but as someone who believes in the legal process while recognising its imperfections I find the court of public opinion very troublesome. While I agree for the most part if it was one or two, but we are talking 22 women…. I find it hard to believe that 22 women are making this up don’t think that is reasonable. IMHO 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, gordong said: While I agree for the most part if it was one or two, but we are talking 22 women…. I find it hard to believe that 22 women are making this up don’t think that is reasonable. IMHO I don't believe 22 women are making it up either. But what I believe, what you believe, what anyone believes is irrelevant. We do not get to assess guilt or liability. There is a system and a process for that. Once you start saying "ah yes but in this case..." then you open any case up to others taking the same approach because they believe in something different. The justice system is imperfect, but it is a million times preferable to the court of public opinion. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 this reminds me of the outrage Philly had when they signed Vick. the outrage vanished when he started winning. 2 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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