Deshaun Watson to Browns - $230 million guaranteed

[Doc]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:49 AM, GunnerBill said:

Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. 

 

Sounds like a longshot amendment to try and get a bigger settlement.  

[mannc]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:49 AM, GunnerBill said:

Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. 

If I had to guess, I'd say the negligence claims were added in order to trigger coverage under any insurance policies Watson might have.  Intentional sexual assault claims would not typically be covered by insurance, but negligence claims almost always are, which means that Watson's insurers would, at a minimum, be on the hook to pay for his legal fees, which are undoubtedly astronomical.    

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

If I had to guess, I'd say the negligence claims were added in order to trigger coverage under any insurance policies Watson might have.  Intentional sexual assault claims would not typically be covered by insurance, but negligence claims almost always are, which means that Watson's insurers would, at a minimum, be on the hook to pay for his legal fees, which are undoubtedly astronomical.    

 

It is a good point about trying to trigger the insurance liability. You are likely right. Still going to be extremely tricky to establish though I think. Harder than simply establishing liability for the sexual assaults. 

[mannc]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is a good point about trying to trigger the insurance liability. You are likely right. Still going to be extremely tricky to establish though I think. Harder than simply establishing liability for the sexual assaults. 

If the idea is to trigger insurance coverage, it almost doesn’t matter if they can ultimately prove negligence or not.  The mere fact that it’s alleged in the complaint means that the insurer has to pickup the defense costs for the entire case…and since those costs are huge in a case like this, the insurer becomes willing to write a big check to help settle the whole thing. Watson would have to contribute too, of course, but it’s another source of funds…and it allows Watson to later say he was “innocent”, but his insurers made him settle with the women.

[SoTier]

18 hours ago, Warcodered said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-curious-case-of-deshaun-watson-and-the-swanky-hotel-in-houston/ar-AAWrzVm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d6eeb2f69dc4473dbd89065f716abbb2

 

Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones.

 

Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage?   It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense.  

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage?   It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense.  

 

Whatever she thought to begin with, or whether she was just desperate for some income and took the risk, the moment she said no then Deshaun should not have forced himself on her, which is the claim being made. It’s one thing which is being promoted in the U.K. when it comes to rape and sexual assault - people are permitted to change their mind even if they seem willing to begin with.

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage?   It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense.  

Exactly...furthermore, no one forced her to give a massage, in the first place...

 

We live in an age where no one wants to accept accountability...

 

And, to be honest, I still haven’t heard what Watson has, specifically, done wrong...did he actually rape them? Or assault them in any way?

 

Obviously if he did, he should be punished....but everything seems so vague to this point...

Edited April 22, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage?   It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense.  

I'm not quite sure about the theory on all unlicensed Instagram masseuses being hookers. 🤦‍♂️

[BillsFan4]

23 hours ago, Warcodered said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-curious-case-of-deshaun-watson-and-the-swanky-hotel-in-houston/ar-AAWrzVm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d6eeb2f69dc4473dbd89065f716abbb2

 

Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones.

 

 

Quote

In one case, two weeks after meeting a woman on Instagram, he flew her in from Atlanta to give him a massage in his suite at The Houstonian, where she said he exposed himself and caused his genitals to touch her inappropriately on Aug. 28, 2020, according to her lawsuit against him.

 

Instead of arranging to have this unlicensed therapist come all the way to Houston, there were easier massage options available to him that day, when his team, the Houston Texans, did not practice after holding a scrimmage the day before. The Houstonian offered professional luxury massage spa services at the Solaya Spa & Salon by The Houstonian, just three miles away from the hotel. The hotel even provided a free shuttle to get there and back, plus discounts to all guests in 2020 and gifts with treatments to hotel guests, according to the hotel.

😬

Edited April 22, 2022 by BillsFan4

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

 

😬

At a minimum, Watson seems like a huge creep

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I'm not quite sure about the theory on all unlicensed Instagram masseuses being hookers. 🤦‍♂️

Im sure they aren’t all hookers, but when I’m swiping around on Tinder in Atlanta, there sure seems to be quite a few who are.  

[JDubya76]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Exactly...furthermore, no one forced her to give a massage, in the first place...

 

We live in an age where no one wants to accept accountability...

 

And, to be honest, I still haven’t heard what Watson has, specifically, done wrong...did he actually rape them? Or assault them in any way?

 

Obviously if he did, he should be punished....but everything seems so vague to this point...

The moment she says NO to him, the scenario should end. Without consent you cannot rub your deal on a woman or present your deal like the hors d’oeuvre she never ordered. Regardless if she is licensed/unlicensed, a prostitute/fan girl/normal lady, in his hotel room or anywhere else, You just can’t. 

[WotAGuy]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Call me naive or old fashioned, but …….

You are naive or old fashioned. 
 

You’re welcome. 

[RussellDopeland]

44 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

At a minimum, Watson seems like a huge creep

[JaCrispy]

15 minutes ago, JDubya76 said:

The moment she says NO to him, the scenario should end. Without consent you cannot rub your deal on a woman or present your deal like the hors d’oeuvre she never ordered. Regardless if she is licensed/unlicensed, a prostitute/fan girl/normal lady, in his hotel room or anywhere else, You just can’t. 

Is that what happened? If so, if the woman is not an escort or prostitute, I would agree, you cannot do that...

 

However, if she is an escort or prostitute (where those sorts of things are legal) and those were the services you agreed to, through a transaction of some sort (typically monetary), than I would have to say that’s fair game...

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Is that what happened? If so, if the woman is not an escort or prostitute, I would agree, you cannot do that...

 

However, if she is an escort or prostitute (where those sorts of things are legal) and those were the services you agreed to, through a transaction of some sort (typically monetary), than I would have to say that’s fair game...

I think you’ve successfully gotten inside Watson’s head. Congratulations. Must be scary in there. 

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

I think you’ve successfully gotten inside Watson’s head. Congratulations. Must be scary in there. 

Lol...I must admit, I’m a little more liberal when it comes to grown adults making consensual agreements with each other...that’s why the details are of the utmost importance in this situation...👍

Edited April 22, 2022 by JaCrispy

[WotAGuy]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Lol...I must admit, I’m a little more liberal when it comes to grown adults making consensual agreements with each other...that’s why the details are of the utmost importance in this situation...👍

He’s accused of sexual assault, which is akin to rape in Texas. His plans and intentions are not what some of these women were expecting or wanting. He sounds much like a sex addict.  Addicts often have a distorted sense of right and wrong when it comes to the behaviors associated with their addictions. As an alcoholic, I’m speaking from experience. 

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Whatever she thought to begin with, or whether she was just desperate for some income and took the risk, the moment she said no then Deshaun should not have forced himself on her, which is the claim being made. It’s one thing which is being promoted in the U.K. when it comes to rape and sexual assault - people are permitted to change their mind even if they seem willing to begin with.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I did not catch any accusations that he “forced himself on” any of these women.  I saw that two said that he moved his body, which caused his penis to move and touch their hands.  I’ve had less than 1% of the massages Watson has had and I’ve had a masseuse bump mine with her hand - and I wasn’t moving.  I had a towel on though. 

 

I think it is obvious that Watson was looking for more than massages and I’m sure he got more than that from some of the women.  I think @SoTier makes a good point.  If some of these women weren’t licensed masseuses, then why were they advertising massage services on social media?  I can only think of one reason (it’s more than massages).  Or maybe Watson asked random women to give him massages for pay.  One would have to think that would be for more than massages too.  Licensed masseuses are one thing, but the others?  Be real. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by BarleyNY

[JaCrispy]

22 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

He’s accused of sexual assault, which is akin to rape in Texas. His plans and intentions are not what some of these women were expecting or wanting. He sounds much like a sex addict.  Addicts often have a distorted sense of right and wrong when it comes to the behaviors associated with their addictions. As an alcoholic, I’m speaking from experience. 

Fair enough...and you may be right his potential sex addiction...