What to do at CB?

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Floydboy12 said:

I trust these coaches developing secondary players. Get offensive weapons early and draft a couple corners mid to late. 

That’s what I think will probably happen 

[Meatloaf63]

On 3/18/2022 at 12:22 AM, DrPJax said:

White will be back long before December as an Acl is a 6 -8 month recovery time so Sept is a realistic period and a return in December is way off on an uncomplicated acl repair.  I do think you have a valid concern but this draft is very deep at cb and I know Beane will bring in a vet or two at cb.  I don’t think when drafting at 25 you are guaranteed a starting cb anyhow as we know that’s rare and Mcd doesn’t use rookies that way in his history. Should they got lucky and a top tier guy drops or they move up , they might have a shot a a plug in starter but I don’t know If they can move that high to get to the top 3 cbs.  After that the talent level equals out for the next couple of rounds as I have heard draft experts mention.

 

 I bet you end up being right tho and the Bills feel forced to draft cb In round 1, which is a shame as they could grab some really good value at wr or yes, even rb ( if hall was there at 25 ). at the end of the first round. Just thinking it goes against their philosophy of always going best available talent and goes toward filling a need that they really should address prior to the draft. It’s not like they didn’t know this was coming so it seems a little short sighted which is not like Beane at all. Still lots of FA time tho to fix things.!  

6-8 months is not realistic. 9-11 months is the norm.

Typically, athletes will be back to their prior level of function by 9 months after surgery. Research has shown reinjury rates to be lower for athletes that returned to sport at 9 months or later.

The initial search yielded 442 unique studies. Of these, 427 were removed after screening, leaving 15 studies that met inclusion criteria. An additional 2 studies were identified in these studies’ references, yielding a total of 17. The rate of RTP after ACLR for football players was 67.2% (1249/1859), and the mean time to return was 11.6 months (range, 35.8-55.8 weeks). Although considerable heterogeneity existed in the study design and outcomes measured, in general, a majority of football players experienced greater declines from their preinjury performance level than controls over the same time period.

[Pags24]

4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

We all are, but season could be lost early if you trot  out Dane Jackson and a mid-round rookie or Cam Lewis as starters for the fist month or more.

I hear ya....considering our available cap space, what are our other options?  Also why do you say "mid-round rookie"?  We'll most likely be drafting a CB in the first 3 rounds

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

We all are, but season could be lost early if you trot  out Dane Jackson and a mid-round rookie or Cam Lewis as starters for the fist month or more.

It’s one of those things you shouldn’t think about until training camp. Especially with the amount of veteran CBs still out there in free agency.

 

Its also a position the Bills have filled with below average players outside of White and been very successful. 
 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Agreed he won’t reach

 

Beane might not reach on his board...........but the Bills board itself might be polluted by team neediness.

 

The prime example being Cody Ford and the embarrassing way that unfolded("We need a tackle") on the Bills embedded series.

 

[Seoulofstone]

3 hours ago, Floydboy12 said:

I trust these coaches developing secondary players. 

Completely agree about coaching. So far outside of Tre they haven’t invested a premium pick on a DB in 5 years. I think they sent a clear message letting Levi go that they want to have an athlete. I know it’s unpopular but I think Tariq Woolen 6”4 and 4,26 40 is in play. As a trade up in the 2nd he has an incredibly high ceiling. If not I believe a late round traits DB like the guy from Fayateville St, Jones, or Kalon Barnes and his 4.2 speed are real possibilities.

 

As far as Bradbury goes predictively I think it won’t happen again because of his athletic profile. He was fantastic against the big receiver constantly shutting down Mike Evans and Julio Jones in their prime. But he’s just an average guy athletically. and against the quick guys gave up big games. Not a quality you want when facing a team with Waddle and Hill.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Seoulofstone
Added thoughts on Bradberry

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s one of those things you shouldn’t think about until training camp. Especially with the amount of veteran CBs still out there in free agency.

 

Its also a position the Bills have filled with below average players outside of White and been very successful. 
 

 

They were super successful in the games in which our season ended the last two seasons.  They were great vs the meh qbs we faced all season.  

Edited March 27, 2022 by NewEra

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They were super successful in the games in which our season ended the last two seasons.  They were great vs the meh qbs we faced all season.  

Pass rush failed not DBs. I don’t understand these takes about the QBs we face, they dominate below average QBs. Good QBs are good vs any defense. The best way to slow down good QBs is with front 4 pressure. 

 

 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Pass rush failed not DBs. I don’t understand these takes about the QBs we face, they dominate below average QBs. Good QBs are good vs any defense. The best way to slow down good QBs is with front 4 pressure. 

 

 

you don’t understand these takes about the QBs we faced?  Seriously? 

How many of these QBs were good in 2021?  

 

Big Ben.

Tua for a minute then Jacoby Brissett 

taylor heineke

davis mills

mahomes

tannehill

Tua

lawrence

zach wilson

wentz

siemian

Macnchz

Brady

Cam

macnchz

matt ryan

Zach Wilson

 

i helped you out. I’ll give you Ryan Tannehill, but we know he’s not great.  He was the 3rd best qb we faced last season.  This isn’t made up.  It’s reality.  It’s one of the reasons our D was ranked so highly last season.  If we had faced next years qbs, our d wouldn’t have been #1 in points and yards.  QBs make offenses.  We faced 2 great qbs during the regular season.  
 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

you don’t understand these takes about the QBs we faced?  Seriously? 

How many of these QBs were good in 2021?  

 

Big Ben.

Tua for a minute then Jacoby Brissett 

taylor heineke

davis mills

mahomes

tannehill

Tua

lawrence

zach wilson

wentz

siemian

Macnchz

Brady

Cam

macnchz

matt ryan

Zach Wilson

 

i helped you out. I’ll give you Ryan Tannehill, but we know he’s not great.  He was the 3rd best qb we faced last season.  This isn’t made up.  It’s reality.  It’s one of the reasons our D was ranked so highly last season.  If we had faced next years qbs, our d wouldn’t have been #1 in points and yards.  QBs make offenses.  We faced 2 great qbs during the regular season.  
 

 

I know who we’ve faced. You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter. There are only 10-12 good QBs in the NFL and you stop them with pass rush. 
 

Good QBs are good for a reason. They put up points and stats vs everyone.

 

And to counter your point as of today how many good passing offenses do we face next year? Maybe 5? Depends how you view Lamar Jackson and Kirk Cousins. 

 

 

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

Has the Panthers 2016 draft been mentioned in this thread? I'm guessing yes, but if not: a few early-to-mid-round (2, 3, & 5) CBs did NOT help that defense retool that position group. They took a notable step back that year, primarily due to their secondary.

 

I know Tre will be back at some point, and obviously Dane has shown some ability. But CB is a big hole relative to this roster's depth elsewhere. You gotta have guys at that position. Obviously (insert St Doug reference)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

27 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Has the Panthers 2016 draft been mentioned in this thread? I'm guessing yes, but if not: a few early-to-mid-round (2, 3, & 5) CBs did NOT help that defense retool that position group. They took a notable step back that year, primarily due to their secondary.

 

I know Tre will be back at some point, and obviously Dane has shown some ability. But CB is a big hole relative to this roster's depth elsewhere. You gotta have guys at that position. Obviously (insert St Doug reference)

CB depth will be addressed. They let Wallace walk at $2.5m cap hit. There’s a plan at CB. We just don’t know what it is yet.

 

 I’m not an expert on the 2016 Carolina Panthers defense but yeah they lost a lot of their veteran leaders from 2015. I don’t see the same approach with the Bills defense. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, Pags24 said:

I hear ya....considering our available cap space, what are our other options?  Also why do you say "mid-round rookie"?  We'll most likely be drafting a CB in the first 3 rounds

3rd-5th are mid-rounds in my view.  
 

I understand the cap issue and that they can’t afford to sign a top level FA CB.  It is an uncomfortable position to go into the draft with such a glaring need at an important position.  Every round that they pass on CB in this year’s draft increases the urgency and lessens the chances of finding someone who would be good/ready enough to play early.  I would like another very good WR prospect and to shore up the OL, but I think they almost have to take a CB in the first regardless of whether it might be a bit of a reach.

[BillsVet]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Has the Panthers 2016 draft been mentioned in this thread? I'm guessing yes, but if not: a few early-to-mid-round (2, 3, & 5) CBs did NOT help that defense retool that position group. They took a notable step back that year, primarily due to their secondary.

 

I know Tre will be back at some point, and obviously Dane has shown some ability. But CB is a big hole relative to this roster's depth elsewhere. You gotta have guys at that position. Obviously (insert St Doug reference)

 

Dave Gettleman's 2016 DB laden draft class not working out for the succeeding regime really means nothing in this discussion.  That is, unless Gettleman is now advising Beane on how to draft poorly like he did with NYG and CAR.    

 

I really don't understand people clamoring for another CB like it's the sky falling if they don't draft one high.  Offensive skill position speed was identified as a major issue and they've still not improved the WR group.  Howard and Johnson are improvements, but they still lack a deep threat.  Considering that this franchise wins or dies with Allen, giving him more options is preferable.  Besides, Buffalo didn't lose their last game because the CB's were a mess even with Tre out.  

[OldTimer1960]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Dave Gettleman's 2016 DB laden draft class not working out for the succeeding regime really means nothing in this discussion.  That is, unless Gettleman is now advising Beane on how to draft poorly like he did with NYG and CAR.    

 

I really don't understand people clamoring for another CB like it's the sky falling if they don't draft one high.  Offensive skill position speed was identified as a major issue and they've still not improved the WR group.  Howard and Johnson are improvements, but they still lack a deep threat.  Considering that this franchise wins or dies with Allen, giving him more options is preferable.  Besides, Buffalo didn't lose their last game because the CB's were a mess even with Tre out.  

I seem to recall that the Chiefs passed their way downfield in 13 seconds for a FG and then again in OT for the win.  I know that some want to blame the pass rush, the DBs have to take a lot of that heat.  I don’t remember Mahomes having all day to throw on either drive.  
 

Of course coverage is helped by a strong pass rush, just as the pass rush is helped by strong coverage in the secondary.

[Motor26]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think everyone blames the coaching staff and mental breakdowns for those last 13 seconds and rightly so. 

Yes. Going into a full blown prevent with 13 seconds was dumb.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I think everyone blames the coaching staff and mental breakdowns for those last 13 seconds and rightly so…. The league is and has been trending towards an offensive centric sport… I’m in favor of stacking the offense and letting the defensive side of taking a hit as a result…. Nor do I think the Bills are in trouble if they went into the season with what they currently have a CB. They’d be fine, because Allen and the offense are why this team has been so successful the past couple seasons.

Are you arguing that it is a passing league and everyone is stacking their receiving corps with great athletes, so best to leave below NFL average athletes oat CB trying to cover them?  

[MrEpsYtown]

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Has the Panthers 2016 draft been mentioned in this thread? I'm guessing yes, but if not: a few early-to-mid-round (2, 3, & 5) CBs did NOT help that defense retool that position group. They took a notable step back that year, primarily due to their secondary.

 

I know Tre will be back at some point, and obviously Dane has shown some ability. But CB is a big hole relative to this roster's depth elsewhere. You gotta have guys at that position. Obviously (insert St Doug reference)

I mentioned it. And the key thing in my mind is that they drafted Vernon Butler late in the first passing on Xavien Howard who went a few picks later in the second. They went quantity over quality and that was a poor move. We need a high quality corner to stick opposite Tre on a rookie contract plus a 5th year. It makes too much sense. That means first round corner in my mind. 

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I seem to recall that the Chiefs passed their way downfield in 13 seconds for a FG and then again in OT for the win.  I know that some want to blame the pass rush, the DBs have to take a lot of that heat.  I don’t remember Mahomes having all day to throw on either drive.  
 

Of course coverage is helped by a strong pass rush, just as the pass rush is helped by strong coverage in the secondary.

 

KC's offensive skill position talent and willingness to continuously improve it are why they'll be solid again next season without Hill.  Buffalo seems to poke their toe in the water there, but when it comes to the off-season (with the exception of Diggs) they revert into draft defense, over-draft JAG linemen and throw some UFA money/mid-round pick at offense.  

 

Taking a CB in the first would mean 5 of their top 7 picks in the McCoach era have been used on that side of the ball.  And they've used a lot of UFA dollars over there as well, likely more than on offense.  

 

[OldTimer1960]

33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m arguing the priority should be stacking the offense and not so much trying to patch every hole defensively. 

If Diggs, Crowder and Davis are the starting WRs and McKenzie is the ”gadget guy”, any improvement from a rookie (this year) would be taking opportunities from those players.  An investment at CB in the first. Is not only (an attempt at) filling a gaping hole, but likely a big step up in mid-term over last year’s starter (Levi Wallace) and the guy who was Wallace’s backup (Dane Jackson).  The only other position where a first round rookie might provide as big an improvement over last year is at OG.  But, OG is a position that works in coordination with the rest of the OL while CB is a position where they have high rate of 1on1 responsibility.  
 

Bad play by WR is an incomplete pass, by an OL it is a sack with risk of injury to the most important player (Allen), bad play by a CB is possibly a TD given up or an easy first down that allows another 3 downs for the opponent.