Max Fischer Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I think Howard could turnout to be a very underrated move. There's little doubt about his ability, but if he could unlock his potential, Howard could be a devestating weapon in this offense. Two skilled tight ends could be a match-up nightmare, espeically if they run heavy play action. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDubya76 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Fingers crossed Ruckert is there in the 3rd (probably not) but Knox, Howard and Ruckert could be a diverse and nasty combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, JDubya76 said: Fingers crossed Ruckert is there in the 3rd (probably not) but Knox, Howard and Ruckert could be a diverse and nasty combo Isaiah Likely is a nice option in the 3rd potentially as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDubya76 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, SCBills said: Isaiah Likely is a nice option in the 3rd potentially as well. I just started running his YouTube highlights this morning. I haven’t seen 1 minute of Chanticleers football. So far, nice hands, good speed and a good run blocker. They played him all over Edited March 17, 2022 by JDubya76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Buftex said: He's not a bad blocker... his hands have improved...he was progressing nicely, until Arians took over. WGR had a Tampa area sportscaster this morning who said he’s not a good blocker and still has ‘dropsies’ issues. Juss sayin’ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 17 hours ago, ArtVandalay said: Love this as a TE2.... he couldn't break out with Brady so my expectations are that of a TE2 red zone target that might make some big plays. Forget his pre-draft hype, he doesn't appear to be that elite player he was eclectic to be. But this is great for depth. Agree 100%. I'm an eternal glass half full guy, but my thinking is, if he couldn't excel playing for Brady, who is the absolute master at running the two TE system, plus the fact he's coming off an Achilles tear, my expectations of him are pretty low. So if we can get any real production out of him it's all upside. And like many on here said, perhaps a change of scenery will do him some good, AND I'd like to think Josh can pull something out of him that few other QBs could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, smuvtalker said: Agree 100%. I'm an eternal glass half full guy, but my thinking is, if he couldn't excel playing for Brady, who is the absolute master at running the two TE system, plus the fact he's coming off an Achilles tear, my expectations of him are pretty low. So if we can get any real production out of him it's all upside. And like many on here said, perhaps a change of scenery will do him some good, AND I'd like to think Josh can pull something out of him that few other QBs could. Actually, he played only 4 games with Brady in 2020 before he was hurt. But, based on what he did in those four games, he was on pace for 45-50 catches / 550-600 yds / 8 TDs / 13+ YPC - as the #2 TE. Those numbers would have been pretty close to the actual numbers Gronk put up in 2020 (45 catches / 623 Yds / / 7 TDs / 13.8 YPC as the #1 TE. In 2021, Gronkowski was clearly the #1 TE, and Brate was #2 as I don't believe Howard was fully recovered from the achilles injury. The only question for me is whether or not he will be fully recovered from the injury by the time the season starts. If so, I think he could bring a lot of value to this offense as a #2 TE. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, he played only 4 games with Brady in 2020 before he was hurt. But, based on what he did in those four games, he was on pace for 45-50 catches / 550-600 yds / 8 TDs / 13+ YPC - as the #2 TE. Those numbers would have been pretty close to the actual numbers Gronk put up in 2020 (45 catches / 623 Yds / / 7 TDs / 13.8 YPC as the #1 TE. In 2021, Gronkowski was clearly the #1 TE, and Brate was #2 as I don't believe Howard was fully recovered from the achilles injury. The only question for me is whether or not he will be fully recovered from the injury by the time the season starts. If so, I think he could bring a lot of value to this offense as a #2 TE. Good point about only having 4 games with Brady. That said Howard lost his job to a UDFA (Brate) and a guy who was out of football for a season. His best seasons are very Charles Clay like from a production perspective. That was before he tore his Achilles. I looked up a bunch of sports medicine journals, the last study went to about 2016. A full 1/3 of NFL players with torn Achilles are out of the league within 2 years. Most others are middling players after. Cam Akers (RB/ Rams) is really exceptional in how he came back. The best I would expect from Howard is a Lee type guy, but inline blocking was never his strength. Given that Bates could have been given a 2nd round tender for 3.9 million, and Howard is 3.5 (up to 5 with incentives) it seems like money poorly spent in a tight cap situation. A TE prospect like Charlie Kolar should be avaailable rounds 3-5 and would have been cheaper and offer more IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Not sure if it was mentioned, but this $3.5 MM is the same money that was going to McKissic... if that's the case this is such a better move for this franchise. Excellent. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 He can go ahead and start to get them hands right and ready, toughen em up......because he gona have some serious heat thrown at him that might be a little different than what he's used to Lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, he played only 4 games with Brady in 2020 before he was hurt. But, based on what he did in those four games, he was on pace for 45-50 catches / 550-600 yds / 8 TDs / 13+ YPC - as the #2 TE. Those numbers would have been pretty close to the actual numbers Gronk put up in 2020 (45 catches / 623 Yds / / 7 TDs / 13.8 YPC as the #1 TE. In 2021, Gronkowski was clearly the #1 TE, and Brate was #2 as I don't believe Howard was fully recovered from the achilles injury. The only question for me is whether or not he will be fully recovered from the injury by the time the season starts. If so, I think he could bring a lot of value to this offense as a #2 TE. Coming back from an Achilles injury is a B-word. I have friends who have gone thru that, and I know it’s a rough one. I’m not doctor, but I just might rather go thru an ACL rehab which has become fairly routine these days. Amazing how times have changed, as an ACL tear used to be career threatening, while now it’s more of a “nuisance”. . Edited March 17, 2022 by Augie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Augie said: Coming back from an Achilles injury is a B-word. I have friends who have gone thru that, and I know it’s a rough one. I’m not doctor, but I just might rather go thru an ACL rehab which has become fairly routine these days. Amazing how times have changed, as an ACL tear used to be career threatening, while now it’s more of a “nuisance”. Medical advancements have been amazing. I'm fortunate that I have never had to go through anything more serious than broken bones and a torn calf muscle. I don't know how serious Howard's injury was, but, from what little I have read about achilles injuries, I can't imagine he was fully recovered in 2021. Hopefully he can fully recover with no permanent decrease in his abilities. Fully healthy, I think he could provide an intriguing addition to the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, smuvtalker said: Agree 100%. I'm an eternal glass half full guy, but my thinking is, if he couldn't excel playing for Brady, who is the absolute master at running the two TE system, plus the fact he's coming off an Achilles tear, my expectations of him are pretty low. So if we can get any real production out of him it's all upside. And like many on here said, perhaps a change of scenery will do him some good, AND I'd like to think Josh can pull something out of him that few other QBs could. I mean they had 3 starting caliber TEs too in Brate, Gronk, and Howard. Let’s not forget that either, they can’t all get snaps and get the ball Edited March 17, 2022 by Alphadawg7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 hours ago, JDubya76 said: Fingers crossed Ruckert is there in the 3rd (probably not) but Knox, Howard and Ruckert could be a diverse and nasty combo We literally go go into the season with Knox and Howard and I would be thrilled. We still have needs on this team in other areas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 After watching his interview I may actually be more excited about howard than Von. He's playing for his next contract...so he's gonna be in !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 hours ago, JDubya76 said: Fingers crossed Ruckert is there in the 3rd (probably not) but Knox, Howard and Ruckert could be a diverse and nasty combo What do you think of Charlie Kolar who could be 4-5th round target? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 hours ago, ArtVandalay said: Not sure if it was mentioned, but this $3.5 MM is the same money that was going to McKissic... if that's the case this is such a better move for this franchise. Excellent. That might be the case but the Bills offered that money to McKissic first so that's probably a clear indication of how they felt about the two players. Just watching video of OJ Howard he seems to lack suddenness to his movements. That piqued my interest so I went back and found that his vertical jump at the combine was only 30 inches and his broad jump was 121 inches. Those numbers seem pretty ordinary for a guy who ran a 4.51 at 6'6" and 251 pounds... a guy many describe as a physical freak. Maybe our strength and conditioning staff can bring out his full potential. It seems his upside is like a Jared Cook type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, he played only 4 games with Brady in 2020 before he was hurt. But, based on what he did in those four games, he was on pace for 45-50 catches / 550-600 yds / 8 TDs / 13+ YPC - as the #2 TE. Those numbers would have been pretty close to the actual numbers Gronk put up in 2020 (45 catches / 623 Yds / / 7 TDs / 13.8 YPC as the #1 TE. In 2021, Gronkowski was clearly the #1 TE, and Brate was #2 as I don't believe Howard was fully recovered from the achilles injury. The only question for me is whether or not he will be fully recovered from the injury by the time the season starts. If so, I think he could bring a lot of value to this offense as a #2 TE. I think Howard says as much in his presser about his injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathja Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) If he stays healthy, this offense will be almost impossible to stop. Somewhere on the field there will always be a mismatch. Add to that, Josh’s ability to throw to any spot on the field, it puts so much pressure on the defense. And that’s before you consider he can tuck it and run past you or through you and he can even jump over you. Terrifying for defenses. OJ Howard can be Darren Waller if he’s healthy - Turned great when he got to his second spot. I’m picturing him and Knox down the seams in the playoffs. Would it be greedy of me to still want Cordarrelle Patterson? Imagine? Edited March 18, 2022 by mathja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 6 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: Good point about only having 4 games with Brady. That said Howard lost his job to a UDFA (Brate) and a guy who was out of football for a season. His best seasons are very Charles Clay like from a production perspective. That was before he tore his Achilles. I looked up a bunch of sports medicine journals, the last study went to about 2016. A full 1/3 of NFL players with torn Achilles are out of the league within 2 years. Most others are middling players after. Cam Akers (RB/ Rams) is really exceptional in how he came back. The best I would expect from Howard is a Lee type guy, but inline blocking was never his strength. Given that Bates could have been given a 2nd round tender for 3.9 million, and Howard is 3.5 (up to 5 with incentives) it seems like money poorly spent in a tight cap situation. A TE prospect like Charlie Kolar should be avaailable rounds 3-5 and would have been cheaper and offer more IMO. Your basically getting a high floor lottery ticket here it would not be the first time a change of scenery helped a high potential guy bust out That said we have Knox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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