ddaryl Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: The bolded is proof as to why my post is accurate (and why there will never be a serious challenge to the NFL's "antitrust exemption"). Without the hundreds of millions of free money to every franchise, teams like the Bills in Buffalo would have no value whatsoever. With the shared revenue, the value rises every year for every team, no matter how awful the product on. the field is. No other business operates like this (each team is a separate business). The highest revenue generating teams and those in the biggest TV markets are driving the overall league annual revenue. All teams are getting "equal distribution", but they are not getting an amount proportional to what they contribute to league revenues, so it is not exactly "well deserved". Do the Browns deserve equal shares despite showing zero interest in putting a competitive product on the field that no one in the country wants to watch? Of course not, but they do. So it is money they get but that is not earned. Therefore, it I free money. As for return on investment, any asset's value is its actual or estimated sale price. No sense pointing that out in regard to a major sports team. I disagree completely with your concept of free money. Yes larger markets produce some larger numbers, but the league as a whole just saw a nice uptick in TV viewership across the board. Even though Dallas is top dog on the TV viewership many weeks. GB, Buffalo, Cleveland also show up with solid ratings. This in return drives the entire NFL which increases viewership across the board for all teams, and that increases TV revenues. Its not the large markets driving the increase its the NFL product as a whole, and that is increasing because of the revenue sharing that allows parity in the league and makes it exciting for fans and creates newer fans. IMO That's not free money that's an investment back into the overall product and the majority of that investment does cover much of the expenses> The Pegula's only windfall will be the equity they have in the Franchise. The TV revenue is mostly placed back into the Franchise and small proportion of it it in ending up in the Pegula's pocket, but its no where's near a windfall. The Browns deserve equal share because they are an NFL franchise. They are very interested in putting up a competitive product, they just do a bad job of it. The Browns have spent money and made moves for players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said: So now that the downstate baseball and basketball teams got their arenas/stadiums done with public money and it's WNYs turn we suddenly have found our moral outrage. These deals are getting done regardless so why should our community take the hit and not get the same treatment? Don't worry... They will feel really, really bad for us when the team leaves. Plus, then we'll have the extra money to build another stadium in NYC! After all, we'll have seen the damage that the Bills leaving did and we get it now and can't let that happen again. Sorry I'm not in favor of losing our team. If you argue against the deal you are arguing for the Bills to relocate. It's that simple. Completely agree with you but there is a difference with the NY City stadiums compared to WNY. They can get the numbers to be more palatable by assessing a tourist tax on hotels, etc. Don’t have that luxury here unless they make the tax more widespread around the State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 (edited) Get the thing built.. all the "taxpayer watchdogs" , horse manure out there.. stop .. its not "taxpayer dollars "given to NFL owners, that is the most simplistic predictable "argument " against the state forking over the money.. the obvious positive intangibles the stadium will bring more than justifies building it.. ridiculous ..the over thinking is nuts.. Edited March 27, 2022 by dwight in philly 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Finally...something that my tax dollars go to that I am happy with!!! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Beast said: Finally...something that my tax dollars go to that I am happy with!!! Exactly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 My takeaway from this thread - I should be able to get seasons in the new stadium since I’m not adverse to paying for a PSL 🤣🤣🍻🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
716er Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, 716er said: Thanks for the post but it seems Tim Graham has told us stuff like this before. If he's right he'll probably pump his own tires telling everyone he broke it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wild Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Him saying the money can be interpreted many ways sounds bad for taxpayers haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 8:17 AM, SoCal Deek said: Owning an NFL Team is not ‘one of the most lucrative businesses in the history of business’. In fact I’m not sure if a single owner makes the majority of their money from owning a team. They make their real money in another market. ( I could be wrong.) Is it an investment? Yes it is. But it’s a long term play, not a short term flip. There are several owners whose only source of significant income (aside from capital gains) comes from their NFL franchise. Obviously anyone who has bought an NFL team since the merger had to be obscenely wealthy from other ventures first. Some of those, like the Pegulas, sold their original business and now their sports team(s) are their main source of income. The NFL makes more money than over half the companies in the Fortune 500. Obviously the owners have to split that, but that's why I said they buy "a share of" the business, not the entire business. Anyway, my point was that buying an NFL franchise is one of the easiest and safest (and most fun) ways to grow your net worth if you have the investment capital. It's not philanthropy. The Pegulas have already seen an $800 million increase in the value of their investment over 8 years. I can appreciate their commitment to Buffalo while at the same time realize that their investments are benefiting them more than anyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Lock in those materials costs now, boys! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Most people have little knowledge of all of the items their taxes help pay for nor the exact figures from their taxes that are funneled to any specific item in a state/federal budget. Taxes are paid by all of us for things we might never use. I get the principal of not using public money to fund billionaires. But in the specific case of this Bills Stadium how much of ones taxes do they think is going toward its construction over the next 4 years? Probably not that much if it’s broken down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 17 hours ago, ddaryl said: I disagree completely with your concept of free money. Yes larger markets produce some larger numbers, but the league as a whole just saw a nice uptick in TV viewership across the board. Even though Dallas is top dog on the TV viewership many weeks. GB, Buffalo, Cleveland also show up with solid ratings. This in return drives the entire NFL which increases viewership across the board for all teams, and that increases TV revenues. Its not the large markets driving the increase its the NFL product as a whole, and that is increasing because of the revenue sharing that allows parity in the league and makes it exciting for fans and creates newer fans. IMO That's not free money that's an investment back into the overall product and the majority of that investment does cover much of the expenses> The Pegula's only windfall will be the equity they have in the Franchise. The TV revenue is mostly placed back into the Franchise and small proportion of it it in ending up in the Pegula's pocket, but its no where's near a windfall. The Browns deserve equal share because they are an NFL franchise. They are very interested in putting up a competitive product, they just do a bad job of it. The Browns have spent money and made moves for players. Without the shared revenue, teams like the Buffalo Bills would cease to exist because they wouldn't earn that money outside of a revenue sharing agreement. So if an entity is given money it otherwise could not earn in the same business....it's free money, plain and simple. And what other of Pegula's billions has created almost another billion in wealth in 8 years? Local ratings are nice and all, but small markets bring smaller ad revenue per 30 second spot, so they aren't as valuable/generate less revenue for the networks laying out the billions for NFL broadcast rights. Those billions aren't driven by the Buffalo and Cleveland Browns. Ask any network CEO what teams they would rather have at the top of their divisions and go deep every year into the playoffs... The Browns may recently be putting in some money, but no one can be bad for the decades they have been by ineptitude alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Without the shared revenue, teams like the Buffalo Bills would cease to exist because they wouldn't earn that money outside of a revenue sharing agreement. So if an entity is given money it otherwise could not earn in the same business....it's free money, plain and simple. And what other of Pegula's billions has created almost another billion in wealth in 8 years? Local ratings are nice and all, but small markets bring smaller ad revenue per 30 second spot, so they aren't as valuable/generate less revenue for the networks laying out the billions for NFL broadcast rights. Those billions aren't driven by the Buffalo and Cleveland Browns. Ask any network CEO what teams they would rather have at the top of their divisions and go deep every year into the playoffs... The Browns may recently be putting in some money, but no one can be bad for the decades they have been by ineptitude alone. At this point I can't even remember the original point of this discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) What are the protections for taxpayers (and bills fans) that the NFL just doesnt change their mind in 10-15 years and move the team? Will they own the stadium? Or will we own it and just be stuck with it if they ever decided to jump ship? 20-30 years we could be looking at another ownership change. Hope the stars dont align for NFL wanting another new stadium, WNY saying no, and whoever the Pegula's sell or will the team to say they are moving to... I dont know, Toronto? Edited March 28, 2022 by What a Tuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: What are the protections for taxpayers (and bills fans) that the NFL just doesnt change their mind in 10-15 years and move the team? Will they own the stadium? Or will we own it and just be stuck with it if they ever decided to jump ship? 20-30 years we could be looking at another ownership change. Hope the stars dont align for NFL wanting another new stadium, WNY saying no, and whoever the Pegula's sell or will the team to say they are moving to... I dont know, Toronto? Take a deep breath my man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I still think its super short sighted to build an open air stadium in the waste land where it is now. I know Buffalo has a low chance of holding any significant sporting event such as college bowl games, march Madness elite 8 or anything else, but this all but guarantees you never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 13 hours ago, 716er said: I was just starting to get nervous that it wouldn’t get done before the budget deadline approaching very quickly (Apr. 1st iirc). I’ll be relieved when it’s officially announced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Bills owners Terry and Kim Pegula issued this statement on the New Bills Stadium project: "We took another step today to solidify our collective goal of constructing a new stadium for the Buffalo Bills in Orchard Park. We are grateful for the time, efforts and unwavering commitment made by Governor Hochul and her team throughout this process. While there are more hurdles to clear before getting to the finish line, we feel our public-private partnership between New York State, Erie County, led by County Executive Mark Poloncarz, and the National Football League will get us there." https://www.buffalobills.com/news/statement-from-terry-and-kim-pegula-on-the-new-bills-stadium-project 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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