Still the Juries out on Allen - Athletic Article Burrow, Allen or Herbert

[gordong]

honestly who cares Allen is the best QB in the league , he out played Patty last week...  he just ran out of time. if the damn defense showed up for the last 13 everyone is singing a different tune.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

54 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Burrow and Herbert are more traditional picket passers who had success at the college level. They both throw a very pretty ball and run traditional NFL offenses. Coaches and GMs understand how they are doing what they are doing, so they can project that success going forward. Burrow gets love from fans because people saw him dominate in college. Also, people don't have to admit that they were wrong in praising Burrow; he was a can't-miss prospect who is making everyone's projections come to fruition.

 

Even after what he did in those two playoff games, a lot of people can't believe what they are seeing with Josh. It defies everything they know about scouting and player development. They say that you can't teach accuracy. Well, he's well over 60% now and he threw only 4 incomplete passes in a playoff game. Even the way he players defies belief. He can run like Cam but he throws like Mahomes. This should not be possible. So, in order to admit that Josh is better than BUrrow or Herbert NFL scouts and GM's would have to admit that the entire way that they scout and evaluate players is wrong. Think about it from their point of view. If you are a GM or a coach on a team that needs a QB, do you want to think that the path to success is to take the top QB in the SEC or PAC12, or go out and find a unicorn and hope he develops? 

 

Exactly. People love Herbert because he looks so smooth. Just a beautiful delivery.  There is a lot more herky jerkiness and improv to Josh’s game, which is why people don’t view him in the same light.   

 

Both styles are effective.

[Freddie's Dead]

52 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

I don't know if you're supposed to post entire articles from pay sites. 

 

You're not.  Clear violation of Fair Use.

[thenorthremembers]

Burrow is in his second year and is only 5 months younger than Josh.  He is way ahead in terms of development when it comes to a 2nd year QB because of his age, and I dont think thats talked about enough.   He also has the benefit of having tons of talent around him.  Personally, I think he is the flavor of the month, and not as physically gifted as either Allen or Herbert.    Baring injury I think Allen and Herbert have much better careers than Burrow.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Anyone else read this? 

 

https://theathletic.com/3088403/2022/01/27/joe-burrow-josh-allen-or-justin-herbert-which-rising-young-qb-would-nfl-coaches-and-execs-take-now/

 

What is interesting is so much love for Burrow & also Herbert.  Again seems many underestimate Allen (especially coaches).

 

Then read the comment section (up to 445 as of Friday 8:00 am) and the love for Burrow is off the chart, with of course too many pissed Lamar Jackson isn't there (remember he made the Pro Bowl, not Allen or Burrow).

 

What I have said all year, outside lousy weather, the one thing that holds him back is coaching.

 

Even the last two games, I swear, his stats could have been even better.  It was only when down 23-14 that Josh was "unleashed" imo.  

 

Heck where was that 400 yard game this year.  

 

 

 

I'm going to just let Dawson Knox address this:

 

Even Kurt Warner is starting to be more positive.  He still wants Josh to take more of the "easy throws," (I think Josh and his coaches would agree, and Beane said something in his post season presser about Josh's development this season was being able to more quickly take what the defense was giving him), but even Warner has started to concede that Josh not taking the throws Warner thinks he should take, is more than made up for by Josh Doing Josh Things to defenses.  Or maybe he's starting to realize that if a guy throws as many TDs as incompletions in a game, you look like a tool if you spend too much time ragging on him for his technique.

 

Even PFF is starting to "get it":

 

 

 

 

 

Of course the love for Burrow is "off the chart" in the comments, his team is still playing while Herbert's fans and Josh's fans are still licking their wounds

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Allen is unconventional, so a lot of the stat geeks and "guys who TRULY understand football" and aren't fooled by 9 TD, 0 INT and 12 incomplete passes TOTAL in 2 playoff games against Belichick and Reid will just never really accept him until he wins a Super Bowl, and even then it'll be "but he's only won 1"

 

That's fine! Allen is truly special, but he does need to take fewer hits, especially early in the season. Beane is right about that. 

 

Allen is now good enough throwing the ball that he's as good or better than 85-90% of NFL QB at just throwing of the ball and getting it to playmakers. But once the playoffs start the cape can go on, because it's for all the marbles. But let's not call too many Allen runs in September and October. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[SCBills]

**** this article. 
 

Perfect example of talking heads recency bias and idiocy. 
 

Stephen A Smith said on Twitter that he was ready to declare Josh Allen, the next Tom Brady, after those back to back game winning drives.  …but then Mahomes came back and won the game.  
 

Uh, ok.. so what changed.  Allen now isn’t the next Tom Brady because our coaches choked and we lost a coin toss?  None of which Allen can control?

 

Not that SAS is worth anything for his opinion, but it’s all about the narrative.  I guarantee you that Josh Allen would be viewed in the media as the best QB in the NFL if we won that game.  Guarantee it. 

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

No and why would you post it here...  you are doing exactly what they want you to.

 

Bill Belichick doesn't go out of his way to talk to other teams players but he did twice with Josh... that's all you need to know... "especially coaches" no the coaches know he is special.

 

 

You got trolled and lost.

He told Josh: if you get tired of this bum as your head coach let me know, I'll get over here and we'll win more super bowls together than Brady did. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

I enjoyed the questioning of Allen in terms of "Can he do it without Daboll"? 

LOL, the right question is can Daboll do it without Josh?

[Billsfan1972]

50 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I enjoyed the questioning of Allen in terms of "Can he do it without Daboll"? 

LOL, the right question is can Daboll do it without Josh?

And without McD.....  They had training wheels on or reins (take your choice😜) 2018-2019, and many a time this year.  Heck the wind game, they realized the second half that Allen could handle it.

 

I hope Daboll gets a head coaching job and does well, but conversely expect too that Allen will be better.   

Edited January 28, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, gordong said:

honestly who cares Allen is the best QB in the league , he out played Patty last week...  he just ran out of time. if the damn defense showed up for the last 13 everyone is singing a different tune.

Allen did not outplay Mahomes. Mahomes was unbelievable as well. They were both amazing. The only difference is Mahomes does that almost every week for the last 4 years while Allen is just getting to that level.

[st pete gogolak]

I think Burrow is a terrific quarterback but you can't put him up there with Mahones and Allen.  He has zero escapability.  I understand his OL stinks but nine sacks!  I can't see Mahones or Allen taking nine sacks if they were behind a high school offensive line.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

I think Burrow is a terrific quarterback but you can't put him up there with Mahones and Allen.  He has zero escapability.  I understand his OL stinks but nine sacks!  I can't see Mahones or Allen taking nine sacks if they were behind a high school offensive line.

Burrow still learning to read pressures.

[HappyDays]

34 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I enjoyed the questioning of Allen in terms of "Can he do it without Daboll"? 

LOL, the right question is can Daboll do it without Josh?

 

 

Some fanbase is going to be very disappointed when Brian Daboll doesn't magically turn their young QB into Josh Allen.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Cut & Pasted....

 

Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? Which rising young QB would NFL coaches and execs take now?

Mike Sando Jan 27, 2022 

 

Three young quarterbacks soared toward superstar status as the 2021 NFL regular season concluded. Joe Burrow and Josh Allen continued their ascent with memorable playoff performances. 

 

Really? What has been memorable about Burrow's two playoff performances so far? They've been pretty ho-hum haven't they? Particularly compared to Allen's historical performance. 

 

It's Allen and Mahomes by a large stretch at the top. Put them in any order you want. I'm bias so I'll take Allen. There's still a large gap between the top two and the next tier. Shockingly, as good as I think our offensive weapons around Allen are, between the Bills, Chiefs, Bengals and Chargers the Bills are probably solidly in fourth in terms of offensive skill players.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[hondo in seattle]

Josh had kind of a hot and cold season.  But his 'cold' games were typically - if not always - when the OL broke down.   Protection was god-awful horrible some games.  

 

The two playoff games showed what Josh can do against good Ds when his bodyguards play decently.  And it was pretty freaking amazing.   

 

I haven't seen Herbert or Burrow enough to truly judge them.  But from what I have seen, they don't have Josh's playmaking ability.   

 

With all due respect, I think the top young QB discussion has just two names: Mahomes and Allen.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Allen to me is the most dangerous QB.  Especially, when games/plays go off script.

Lamar has that ability too.  When games get away from the game plan and get whacky in the 2nd…then these guys just start playing sand lot and the points/numbers just start to pile up.

 

Over the long haul of say a 15 Year Career…I would probably take Burrow though with one caveat.  Offensive Line being built up.

 

But I trust a QB who is doing it with their technique, fundamentals and mind over the QBs who are finding a lot of success with their physical abilities.

 

Feel the physical tools that make some QBs special will decline over time.  Whereas the Mind should in theory stay strong.

 

Well, first off - Burrows was sacked 50 times this season - that's not all on his OL.  And he may well get sacked less as he learns more about reading coverages and setting protections and knowing where his answers are - his mind.  My point is, he's not just getting sacked because his OL sucks, he needs to develop his mental abilities too.

 

And he, too, is relying on his physical tools.

 

Allen already relies less on his legs and more on his mental understanding of the game, and this IMO will only continue to improve.  When it does, he will still have that "you can defend this play perfectly and I will still beat you" factor.

 

This season, without a real running game, the Bills made a calculated decision to run Allen on designed runs to help open up the passing game.  Just as Burrows can improve his longevity if he 1) has a better OL 2) learns more about "his answers" so he doesn't get whacked so much, Allen can maintain his physical abilities if the Bills improve their OL and their run game.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

I think an argument can be made that out of the three QB's Allen has the weakest group of skill players. 

[GoBills808]

Burrow and Herbert are both really good. Two of the better young QBs in the league along with Mahomes.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Remember many of these guys “missed on Allen” as Burrow went 1 and Herbert went 5 Which makes their own failures as front offices look better.

Anybody could have had Allen the Bills went from 22-7 to get him and many owners are wondering why didn’t you do that?

 

So when a front office and execs in Chicago or Denver or the Jets or Miami say they’d take these guys over Josh is simply do to jealousy and their stupidity 

 

 

Good lord, the sensitivity from so many on this. The article's reasonable.

 

Except for Brugler and Mueller, these guys are anonymous. So their opinions about him on draft day have nothing to do with this article. Their identities and their draft day opinions are unknown. No need for them to hide opinions or twist them. They make no claims, and for all we know they might have been huge Allen fans on draft day. Or not. You have no idea whether many of these guys missed on Allen. Beside the point, though.

 

The question is simply what they would want now.

 

I'm with eball as to wondering how anyone could rank Allen third. Three out of seven ranked him first, though. And ranking him 2nd if you really really love Burrow doesn't seem unfair to me, though I'd absolutely rank him 1st out of this group. But Burrow especially looks like he might be a very good one down the road, and this is only Burrow's sophomore year. All three, really, but Allen and Burrow particularly look terrific.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Thurman#1