Good analysis of the issues with Patriots roster

[wjag]

Favorite line from article: "Watching Allen’s spread machine cut through the Patriots defense like a hot knife through butter while the Pats trotted out a six offensive linemen package made me feel like my 95-year-old great uncle calling me on his flip phone while I spoke to him on my iPhone 13."

[Ghost_002!]

50 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

How is it relevant? The past 20 years have nothing to do with today.
 

It’s an amazing accomplishment, but the Patriots success on the field for two decades has nothing to do with their current roster construction. 
 

Absolutely zero. 

 

 

It's irrelevant with the now, but something you just do not get. The Bills beat the Pats to advance  but the OP is a bills fans and still decided to created this thread. Why? What does it matter. What does it matter what the Pats roster will be like next year. And i am not taken a shot at OP or the thread its self. I am just stating what another bills fan maybe thinking about the thread. 

 

 

10 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

So you have moved to the acceptance stage, it’s over. Glad you are healing. 
Yes, it time for us to move on to KC. NE isn’t even the second best team in our division. 

 

 

I do not know how you got this^^^ out of my post, but OK.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[billsfan1959]

18 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

And you forgot one very very big thing, RINGS. Just saying...

 

If you want to go into another team's forum to puff out your chest like this, it probably shouldn't come after the worst ass kicking your team has ever received in a playoff game.

 

Just saying...

[Coach Tuesday]

Some real mouth-breather responses to a well-informed article and post.

 

I don't see the Patriots overhauling everything this offseason - I think they'll give it at least one more season to see if they can make this system work.  I'd expect them to franchise JC Jackson and then go after multiple WR threats - Kirk and Godwin would be two really good adds.

[Ghost_002!]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

If you want to go into another team's forum to puff out your chest like this, it probably shouldn't come after the worst ass kicking your team has ever received in a playoff game.

 

Just saying...

 

 

Yea. You shouldn't assume. especially since you really do not understand why the comment was made. 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Yea. You shouldn't assume. especially since you really do not understand why the comment was made. 

 

You actually made two comments and both of them referenced the past success of your team. Who cares?

 

It's like thinking about the hot girl you dated in high school while looking across the dinner table at the ugly woman you married.

 

[Ghost_002!]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

You actually made two comments and both of them referenced the past success of your team. Who cares?

 

It's like thinking about the hot girl you dated in high school while looking across the dinner table at the ugly woman you married.

 

 

A bills fans made a comment about why are "we" still thinking about the pats.....i then turned around and said "20 years" as to answer that question. saying last sat game will not erase 20 years from some bills fans memory...that was not meant to take a shot. But because it came from me it was of course perceptive that way.....then a poster decided to make a smart comment -which i just replied to. But none of it was to "puff my chest out" I could do that all day if i wanted to....Bills fans here have said the same 20 year comment before...

 

 

so I am not puffing my chest out. I don't care to. It's not about that.  

Edited January 18, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

A bills fans made a comment about why are "we" still thinking about the pats.....i then turned around and said "20 years" as to answer that question. saying last sat game will not erase 20 years from some bills fans memory...that was not meant to take a shot. But because it came from me it was of course perceptive that way.....then a poster decided to make a smart comment -which i just replied to. But none of it was to "puff my chest out" I could do that all day here if i wanted to, but i don't and nor do it....Bills fans here have said the same 20 year comment before...

 

 

so I am not puffing my chest out. I don't care. It's not about that.  

 

Fair enough

[Warcodered]

 

[GunnerBill]

I'll boil it down a bit further. As well as scheme, it's talent. They need to stack good drafts. They had their best draft in half a decade in 2021. They need to stack another. Their second era of Superbowl wins was built on the foundation of a run of drafts from 2009 to 2015 (with the exception of 2011). Yes they had Brady but they had Brady in between their two Superbowl eras too and only made the big game twice in nine years. Suddenly they hit on a draft run that brought the Edelman, Chung, McCourty, Solder, Jones, Hightower, Collins, Thuney, Mason, White.... while finding David Andrews and Malcolm Butler as UDFAs. Those guys are stalwarts of that second era of dominance. 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Here's their biggest issue: McCorkle

 

I hope they hitch their cart to that wagon for as long as possible.

[Coach Tuesday]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I'll boil it down a bit further. As well as scheme, it's talent. They need to stack good drafts. They had their best draft in half a decade in 2021. They need to stack another. Their second era of Superbowl wins was built on the foundation of a run of drafts from 2009 to 2015 (with the exception of 2011). Yes they had Brady but they had Brady in between their two Superbowl eras too and only made the big game twice in nine years. Suddenly they hit on a draft run that brought the Edelman, Chung, McCourty, Solder, Jones, Hightower, Collins, Thuney, Mason, White.... while finding David Andrews and Malcolm Butler as UDFAs. Those guys are stalwarts of that second era of dominance. 

 

 

The article seems to be saying their drafts haven't matched their scheme preference.  They took Uche out of Michigan who I thought would become a great pass rusher and per the article he's not playing because he can't set the edge - which was never going to be his skill.  Bizarre.

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

A bills fans made a comment about why are "we" still thinking about the pats.....i then turned around and said "20 years" as to answer that question. saying last sat game will not erase 20 years from some bills fans memory...that was not meant to take a shot. But because it came from me it was of course perceptive that way.....then a poster decided to make a smart comment -which i just replied to. But none of it was to "puff my chest out" I could do that all day if i wanted to....Bills fans here have said the same 20 year comment before...

 

 

so I am not puffing my chest out. I don't care to. It's not about that.  

From a close friend of mine who is a lifetime Pats fan and very knowledgeable:

 

"It comes down to what I have been saying for years. NE won because they had an exceptional QB in Brady. That is all that matters. If you have one you can attract players and keep players very often at bargain prices. The Bills were able to re-sign just about everyone when everyone was convinced they would lose Milano and members of the offensive and defensive lines. Who the hell wouldn't want to play with Allen? It started when he jumped over the guy in the Vikings game. That's when everyone saw the kid was a gamer. Poyer and Hyde summed it up after the loss to the Titans when a reporter asked about Allen's play and they replied "we ride with 17". The Pats were able to bring in Welker, Moss, Amendola, Rodney Harrison, Gilmore, Fred Taylor, and an endless list of DL. They could fill any need they wanted. KC was able to rebuild their OL through trades and free agency because who the hell wouldn't want to play with Mahomes?.Brady goes to Tampa and brings Gronk and other players that immediately improve the team. The worst thing Billy B ever did to the franchise was allow Cam Newton to play QB for the season. It was a joke. It was fascinating to watch. He was so bad and he just kept playing him and then brought him back for training camp. So they go out and get players and many of them were veterans probably surprised at the money they threw at them. They weren't going there to win with Cam Newton or Mac Jones. They were cashing in. The Pats do not have a single player on offense that teams have to worry about. Edelman and Gronk were unstoppable and opened up plays for everyone on that offense. A NE reporter showed the stat about how bad their offense has been throwing the ball against the Bills since McDermott became coach. A total of 4 TD passes and 7 interceptions. Now 6 and 9 since McDermott took over. "

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The article seems to be saying their drafts haven't matched their scheme preference.  They took Uche out of Michigan who I thought would become a great pass rusher and per the article he's not playing because he can't set the edge - which was never going to be his skill.  Bizarre.

 

Yea although it kinda contradicts that earlier by saying the explosive plays are designed to come from the edge rushers Judon and Van Noy. Judon isn't and hasn't ever been a great edge setter either I suspect Uche is essentially losing out to him as Bill tends to go with more of a rusher as his outside guy on the strong side and then more of an edge setter / container as his "jack" the outside backer on the weak side. I suspect it was likely impatience or dissatisfaction with Uche that led to them pursuing Judon. 

[TPS]

38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

From a close friend of mine who is a lifetime Pats fan and very knowledgeable:

 

"It comes down to what I have been saying for years. NE won because they had an exceptional QB in Brady. That is all that matters. If you have one you can attract players and keep players very often at bargain prices. The Bills were able to re-sign just about everyone when everyone was convinced they would lose Milano and members of the offensive and defensive lines. Who the hell wouldn't want to play with Allen? It started when he jumped over the guy in the Vikings game. That's when everyone saw the kid was a gamer. Poyer and Hyde summed it up after the loss to the Titans when a reporter asked about Allen's play and they replied "we ride with 17". The Pats were able to bring in Welker, Moss, Amendola, Rodney Harrison, Gilmore, Fred Taylor, and an endless list of DL. They could fill any need they wanted. KC was able to rebuild their OL through trades and free agency because who the hell wouldn't want to play with Mahomes?.Brady goes to Tampa and brings Gronk and other players that immediately improve the team. The worst thing Billy B ever did to the franchise was allow Cam Newton to play QB for the season. It was a joke. It was fascinating to watch. He was so bad and he just kept playing him and then brought him back for training camp. So they go out and get players and many of them were veterans probably surprised at the money they threw at them. They weren't going there to win with Cam Newton or Mac Jones. They were cashing in. The Pats do not have a single player on offense that teams have to worry about. Edelman and Gronk were unstoppable and opened up plays for everyone on that offense. A NE reporter showed the stat about how bad their offense has been throwing the ball against the Bills since McDermott became coach. A total of 4 TD passes and 7 interceptions. Now 6 and 9 since McDermott took over. "

While there are players who would like to come to Buffalo now (Sanders e.g.), a win against KC and a trip to the Super Bowl will ratchet that up.  It will be a lot easier to fill those 5-6 spots that are typically filled by relatively cheap vets, and it probably means they will sign some of the better ones who want the opportunity to win a ring.

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazar-is-bill-belichicks-latest-stylistic-zig-a-winnable-formula-in-todays-nfl/

 

 

 

I wonder if NFL will fine him for wearing a mask improperly.

"I am sorry but I missed that part of the memo."

 

16 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

20 plus years.

 

20 plus years of lying and cheating.  No wonder you are proud.

5 hours ago, wjag said:

Favorite line from article: "Watching Allen’s spread machine cut through the Patriots defense like a hot knife through butter while the Pats trotted out a six offensive linemen package made me feel like my 95-year-old great uncle calling me on his flip phone while I spoke to him on my iPhone 13."

 

I am happy your uncle who deserves title of great and is fiscally conservative rather than paying for a phone which costs as much as a PSL.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Limeaid

[Ghost_002!]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

From a close friend of mine who is a lifetime Pats fan and very knowledgeable:

 

"It comes down to what I have been saying for years. NE won because they had an exceptional QB in Brady. That is all that matters. If you have one you can attract players and keep players very often at bargain prices. The Bills were able to re-sign just about everyone when everyone was convinced they would lose Milano and members of the offensive and defensive lines. Who the hell wouldn't want to play with Allen? It started when he jumped over the guy in the Vikings game. That's when everyone saw the kid was a gamer. Poyer and Hyde summed it up after the loss to the Titans when a reporter asked about Allen's play and they replied "we ride with 17". The Pats were able to bring in Welker, Moss, Amendola, Rodney Harrison, Gilmore, Fred Taylor, and an endless list of DL. They could fill any need they wanted. KC was able to rebuild their OL through trades and free agency because who the hell wouldn't want to play with Mahomes?.Brady goes to Tampa and brings Gronk and other players that immediately improve the team. The worst thing Billy B ever did to the franchise was allow Cam Newton to play QB for the season. It was a joke. It was fascinating to watch. He was so bad and he just kept playing him and then brought him back for training camp. So they go out and get players and many of them were veterans probably surprised at the money they threw at them. They weren't going there to win with Cam Newton or Mac Jones. They were cashing in. The Pats do not have a single player on offense that teams have to worry about. Edelman and Gronk were unstoppable and opened up plays for everyone on that offense. A NE reporter showed the stat about how bad their offense has been throwing the ball against the Bills since McDermott became coach. A total of 4 TD passes and 7 interceptions. Now 6 and 9 since McDermott took over. "

 

 

I am not sure what is the point of this paragraph to me. Nobody has ever doubted how big Brady was to the franchise. I think a casual fan could even figure out how important the QB is to a franchise. The interesting thing is, that NE/BB detractors never want to wrap their head around is. The team around the QB is as important too. You mention Gronk and Edelman, who you think drafted and developed them? Who you think put the team around Brady to succeed? I keep saying it to those who just want to say it's all Brady. in 01 it was BB defense, their very last SB Brady did not do a thing, it was BB defense.

 

I don't think Cam Newton QBing here was the worse thing to happen to the franchise, like really? They came off a SB two years before that. Also remember they went 7-9with him...could of easily went 8-8. There are plenty of franchises with better roster and QBs that don't achieve that record.

 

as much as people want to talk about their roster and how the game wen against the BIlls in the playoffs, and it was bad, damn, it was ONE game. They won 10 games this season, a playoff birth with a rookie QB and held the division lead for a couple weeks. All after letting go brady just 2 years prior. Again i ask, how many franchises do you know retool that quickly? Of course there are holes they need to fill. Doesn't every team every year need to fill holes/retool at certain spots? 

 

I wonder do people really think BB stayed this long in the NFL and not have a clue what he is doing? like really? People's over reaction after the games be killing me.  

 

 

I mean great McD/Bills have looked good against the pats. They should, while the pats were still winning he had time and draft positions to build his team. So he/they should be better than the pats at this moment. Usually how it goes in sports. You are not supposed to stay at the top forever. The fact the pats did, just shows you how great BB and Brady were together. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Ghost_002!

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

I am not sure what is the point of this paragraph to me. Nobody has ever doubted how big Brady was to the franchise. I think a casual fan could even figure out how important the QB is to a franchise. The interesting thing is, that NE/BB detractors never want to wrap their head around is. The team around the QB is as important too. You mention Gronk and Edelman, who you think drafted and developed them? Who you think put the team around Brady to succeed? I keep saying it to those who just want to say it's all Brady. in 01 it was BB defense, their very last SB Brady did not do a thing, it was BB defense.

 

I don't think Cam Newton QBing here was the worse thing to happen to the franchise, like really? They came off a SB two years before that. Also remember they went 7-9with him...could of easily went 8-8. There are plenty of franchises with better roster and QBs that don't achieve that record.

 

as much as people want to talk about their roster and how the game wen against the BIlls in the playoffs, and it was bad, damn, it was ONE game. They won 10 games this season, a playoff birth with a rookie QB and held the division lead for a couple weeks. All after letting go brady just 2 years prior. Again i ask, how many franchises do you know retool that quickly? Of course there are holes they need to fill. Doesn't every team every year need to fill holes/retool at certain spots? 

 

I wonder do people really think BB stayed this long in the NFL and not have a clue what he is doing? like really? People's over reaction after the games be killing me.  

 

 

I mean great McD/Bills have looked good against the pats. They should, while the pats were still winning he had time and draft positions to build his team. So he/they should be better than the pats at this moment. Usually how it goes in sports. You are not supposed to stay at the top forever. The fact the pats did, just shows you how great BB and Brady were together. 

In recent times, there has been no worse move by the Pats franchise than bringing on Newton as the unquestioned starter. While he could still run, he was embarrassingly bad overall. He couldn't throw, and everyone knew that beforehand. He also took way too many sacks. It was kind of pathetic to watch. Their offense was 27th in points, 27th in yards, and 31st in TD passes. I mean, they had NO plan for the post-Brady period even with a top-shelf defense going into 2020. As for the record, they could easily have goon 5-11 too; they barely beat a horrible Jets team on the game's final play and beat AZ 20-17. They lost 9 games because they didn't have a credible QB. He failed repeatedly late in close games (Buffalo, Seattle, Houston, Denver).   

Edited January 18, 2022 by dave mcbride

[BigAl2526]

43 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In recent times, there has been no worse move by the Pats franchise than bringing on Newton as the unquestioned starter. While he could still run, he was embarrassingly bad overall. He couldn't throw, and everyone knew that beforehand. He also took way too many sacks. It was kind of pathetic to watch. Their offense was 27th in points, 27th in yards, and 31st in TD passes. I mean, they had NO plan for the post-Brady period even with a top-shelf defense going into 2020. As for the record, they could easily have goon 5-11 too; they barely beat a horrible Jets team on the game's final play and beat AZ 20-17. They lost 9 games because they didn't have a credible QB. He failed repeatedly late in close games (Buffalo, Seattle, Houston, Denver).   

I agree it was a mistake for the Patriots to sign Newton, but I don't know that they ever figured that he was going to be anything more than a stopgap.  Having Newton was not the reason they lacked a credible QB.  There just weren't any credible guys available at a price the Patriots felt they could afford.

[BillnutinHouston]

17 hours ago, Warcodered said:

well at least you've got memories.

 

And arrogance for miles.