Precision Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I think every American, Democrats and Republicans are rooting for the Ukrainians. As Ron indicated in the previous post, we shouldn't underestimate the brutality of Russian leaders and how many troops they're willing to sacrifice. The official Russian estimate for soldiers killed in WW2 is 8.7 million but some estimates are as high as 14 million. Add civilian deaths and you're talking anywhere from 20-30 million Russians killed. As tragic as this conflict has been, 100K deaths of Russian soldiers is a rounding error compared to the second world war. If the Russian leadership truly believes this conflict is existential to the survival of their country, I fear this war could last for a very, very long time. A very informative but somber video regarding the number of military and civilian deaths in WW2. The Fallen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 Uncle Sam delivering the goods. They are sending wreckers with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Reminder you can still hope for Putin's downfall and realize that this is true also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: The guy who hastily arranged an unscheduled visit to Zelensky last April and delivered the message the West would not allow him to agree to a negotiated peace deal between Ukraine and Russia brokered by France and Germany implores the allies to send more weapons. What a phony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Not interested in what Boris Johnson has to say about this. Headlines for the ignorant. Providing front line, near state of the art arms to the Ukraine is a complicated issue requiring many levels of competency for success. Boris isn't the guy to deliver an accurate or realistic approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 The big tanks are heading to the front, it looks like WSJ link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/poland-formally-requests-german-permission-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-11674558492 WASHINGTON—The Biden administration is leaning toward sending a significant number of Abrams M1 tanks to Ukraine and an announcement of the deliveries could come this week, U.S. officials said. The announcement would be part of a broader diplomatic understanding with Germany in which Berlin would agree to send a smaller number of its own Leopard 2 tanks and would also approve the delivery of more of the German-made tanks by Poland and other nations. It would settle a trans-Atlantic disagreement over the tanks that had threatened to open fissures as the war drags into the end of its first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The big tanks are heading to the front, it looks like WSJ link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/poland-formally-requests-german-permission-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-11674558492 WASHINGTON—The Biden administration is leaning toward sending a significant number of Abrams M1 tanks to Ukraine and an announcement of the deliveries could come this week, U.S. officials said. The announcement would be part of a broader diplomatic understanding with Germany in which Berlin would agree to send a smaller number of its own Leopard 2 tanks and would also approve the delivery of more of the German-made tanks by Poland and other nations. It would settle a trans-Atlantic disagreement over the tanks that had threatened to open fissures as the war drags into the end of its first year. Nice. Wish I could figure out how to put tweet videos in here. That one of Ukrainian Z talking about all the massive corporate support is all over right now. https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1617786634606628865?t=Aq5ROaP1xTWiBSE4XSqjog&s=19 Edited January 24, 2023 by Chris farley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 Just now, Chris farley said: Nice. Wish I could figure out how to put tweet videos in here. That one of Ukrainian Z talking about all the massive corporate support is all over right now. I take it you hate corporations, too. Is that correct? Democracy and corporations are bad, do I have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I take it you hate corporations, too. Is that correct? Democracy and corporations are bad, do I have that right? I'll play. You think citizens united and corporations spending unlimited is democracy? Who are the reps , representing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Chris farley said: I'll play. You think citizens united and corporations spending unlimited is democracy? Who are the reps , representing? You did not play. You answered with a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 So I did exactly what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) The Ukraine war could conceivably be over by the time they can operate these tanks. There is no way it takes less than 6 months to get tank crews proficient on the operation of the tanks and, more importantly, a crew of maintenance operators proficient at the maintenance of the extremely complex tanks. Where is Ukraine going to order these parts from? They have no logistical infrastructure to support them. Edited January 24, 2023 by PetermansRedemption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, Chris farley said: So I did exactly what you did. But you are against democracy and corporations, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: The Ukraine war could conceivably be over by the time they can operate these tanks. There is no way it takes less than 6 months to get tank crews proficient on the operation of the tanks and, more importantly, a crew of maintenance operators proficient at the maintenance of the extremely complex tanks. Where is Ukraine going to order these parts from? They have no logistical infrastructure to support them. They may have been training on them for months already. I'd be mildly surprised if they have not been. NATO, of course, will supply the parts, and the logistics might be easier than you think. If they can get the equipment to the front, they can also get the spare parts there. Have you seen any evidence that Russia is seriously interdicting Ukranian logistics in any precise way? While Ukraine has pretty good intel from multiple sources, Russia might be flying almost blind as far as what's going on or over the roads in Ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: I'd be mildly surprised if they have not been. NATO, of course, will supply the parts, and the logistics might be easier than you think. If they can get the equipment to the front, they can also get the spare parts there. It is never "easier than you think." The M1 Abrams is powered by a jet engine. It is really heavy and really complex. Recovery vehicles, loaders to move it, as well as normal consumables and normal maintenance for its operation are way more complicated. Leopard tanks from Germany and Challenger tanks from the UK make way more sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: But you are against democracy and corporations, correct? can you guarantee Ukraine is a democracy? That they will continue that into the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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