Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[All_Pro_Bills]

15 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war.

 

Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed.

 

Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor.

 

Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me.

 

If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs.

Whether Ukraine is "winning" at the moment is a highly subjective assessment.  And US funding of the war effort, which I feel is a excessive and could be allocated to more pressing and direct interests, isn't the biggest problem. 

 

I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general.  And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents.  Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe.  To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians.  All the politicians and the usual suspects are too busy falling into line waving the flag of "supporting democracy" and anyone that can see past their own nose and question or warn of other bigger threats is ostracized.  Its the perfect set up for an epic fail of American influence.  To combat this threat requires more than sending bombs and weapons to some insignificant stretch of land.      

 

At the moment, Europe and the EU are nothing short of a big dumpster fire and it will only get worse.  As for driving a wedge between China and Russia to this point that goal a is big fail as they've never been closer if for nothing else but out of necessity.  Add Iran to the fold, possibly India, and most of Asia, including it appears Afghanistan, through the Belt and Road initiative, Chinese moves in Africa and South America,  recently signed economic and partnership agreements with OPEC and Gulf States with China.  I could go on but its clear the idea is to squeeze the US out of the global influence game.

 

    

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

 

I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general.  And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents.  Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe.  To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians.   

 

    

[SoCal Deek]

The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. 

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. 

That lesson was learned long before Ukraine. 

[Tiberius]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. 

Why? Because the war is less than a year old? 

 

I mean, this seems to be driving you guys nuts that Russia is getting its ass kicked. You know Putin backed Trump, is that what this is all about? 

 

Doesn't seem a a hard call, people fighting for freedom

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

That lesson was learned long before Ukraine. 

Apparently…not. 

[BillsFanNC]

Absolutely disgusting symbolism.

 

Yeah, yeah I know I'm a Putin supporter!

 

 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Absolutely disgusting symbolism.

 

Yeah, yeah I know I'm a Putin supporter!

 

 

Appalling to who? Just a bunch of cry babies? 

[Tommy Callahan]

59 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'm glad the vast majority of people that think about this topic know that opinions like this ^ are just trash 

 

A people fighting for their freedom is inspiring to most. 

spoken by someone not in a war zone. 

simple fact. More weapons in that theatre results in more pain, suffering and death for the people in those areas. 

 

Did I miss where congress declared war? or is biden using them post 9/11 war powers the left claimed the right would abuse to start proxi wars for the MIC?

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war.

 

Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed.

 

Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor.

 

Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me.

 

If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs.

lol. corporate welfare encompasses most of bidens spending bills. 

If anything, this war has strengthened China/Russia alliances.

 

 

15 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

The current total amount given since the start of the war is less than 6% of the annual budget. It’s not 6% every time, the number is annualized. 
 

Did you know that?

6 percent of our budget is the GDP of ukraine.

 

just saying

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

spoken by someone not in a war zone. 

simple fact. More weapons in that theatre results in more pain, suffering and death for the people in those areas. 

 

Did I miss where congress declared war? or is biden using them post 9/11 war powers the left claimed the right would abuse to start proxi wars for the MIC?

 

 

 

 

lol. corporate welfare encompasses most of bidens spending bills. 

If anything, this war has strengthened China/Russia alliances.

 

 

Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. 

 

Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. 

[Tommy Callahan]

13 hours ago, BillStime said:

🎯

 

 

what's not shocking is the statist calling anyone that doesn't agree with their corporate/statist narrative, insults.

 

its actually so 2016.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. 

 

Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. 

Boom! And there it is! ALL OF THIS is about some nonsense Hillary made up to placate her wounded ego. 
 

Seriously….post of the year! 

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. 

 

Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. 

like I said. spoken like a keyboard warrior sitting on his couch in in a first world that has never seen an actual warzone.

 

BTW. you think this is what o was caught on that hot mike moment telling the Russian leader he would have more time after the election, but then the orange dude won?

 

American and Russian Military industrial complexes love pro proxi war cheerleaders.

 

 

[TSOL]

33 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Why? Because the war is less than a year old? 

 

I mean, this seems to be driving you guys nuts that Russia is getting its ass kicked. You know Putin backed Trump, is that what this is all about? 

 

Doesn't seem a a hard call, people fighting for freedom

 

 

Either you are playing dumb, or you are dumb. 

 

Frankly, I don't know which is worse. 

[sherpa]

For what it's worth, Biden was a strident advocate for invasion of Iraq in 2003. That is his history, no matter how be bungled the attempt to confuse the issue during the campaign.

 

Still, it is hard to believe that Russia can make it through a second winter next year.

They simply cannot handle the economic collapse.

Now that Germany has constructed and is operating three LNG terminals, the price of Russian oil is bound to plummet.

Very hard to see how the Russians can continue to fund this failed effort.

[Tommy Callahan]

53 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Whether Ukraine is "winning" at the moment is a highly subjective assessment.  And US funding of the war effort, which I feel is a excessive and could be allocated to more pressing and direct interests, isn't the biggest problem. 

 

I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general.  And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents.  Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe.  To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians.  All the politicians and the usual suspects are too busy falling into line waving the flag of "supporting democracy" and anyone that can see past their own nose and question or warn of other bigger threats is ostracized.  Its the perfect set up for an epic fail of American influence.  To combat this threat requires more than sending bombs and weapons to some insignificant stretch of land.      

 

At the moment, Europe and the EU are nothing short of a big dumpster fire and it will only get worse.  As for driving a wedge between China and Russia to this point that goal a is big fail as they've never been closer if for nothing else but out of necessity.  Add Iran to the fold, possibly India, and most of Asia, including it appears Afghanistan, through the Belt and Road initiative, Chinese moves in Africa and South America,  recently signed economic and partnership agreements with OPEC and Gulf States with China.  I could go on but its clear the idea is to squeeze the US out of the global influence game.

 

    

yeck yeah. I have alse been watching the new 24 season three on prime. 

 

you pretty much just perfectly explained the script.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Apparently…not. 

Of course we learned the lesson.  You learned A2+B2=C2 decades ago.  But have you used it lately? 

[BillStime]

5 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

what's not shocking is the statist calling anyone that doesn't agree with their corporate/statist narrative, insults.

 

its actually so 2016.

 

 

Oh - hit a nerve eh?

 

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Boom! And there it is! ALL OF THIS is about some nonsense Hillary made up to placate her wounded ego. 
 

Seriously….post of the year! 

LOL 

 

You really are losing it. 

 

Losing 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

For what it's worth, Biden was a strident advocate for invasion of Iraq in 2003. That is his history, no matter how be bungled the attempt to confuse the issue during the campaign.

 

Still, it is hard to believe that Russia can make it through a second winter next year.

They simply cannot handle the economic collapse.

Now that Germany has constructed and is operating three LNG terminals, the price of Russian oil is bound to plummet.

Very hard to see how the Russians can continue to fund this failed effort.

seeing would be believing cause the rubble and Russian economy are not struggling yet.