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Mac Jones is this years Baker Mayfield. He came into the NFL at his ceiling?


Paul Costa
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2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It's because of the deep rooted fear and anxiety all Bills fans have right now that the Pats are back in the SB contender conversation only one year removed from Brady and they may have found a similair QB once again which means many more years of misery ahead especially if Allen might not be as good as some thought after last year.

 

Either way double standards are ridiculous and there is no denying what is happening with Mac Jones and the Patriots right now. And even if the Bills beat the Pats and Jones look terrible it's not going to magically change the long term trajectory for either team.

I do understand that speculation is the whole point of a football message board but assuming a guy who hasn’t been asked to do much is the next greatest quarterback of all time candidate because his defense is ravaging bad teams is outrageous to me.  Let him win a big game first then crown him. Josh Allen has a lot of you desensitized it seems like…the dude is making freakish nearly impossible plays look routine every single game…we’ve been short handed on the oline for 75% of the season and he is still balling.  If we look bad with brown and Feliciano back Monday I will concede that point lol we have had absolute clowns starting at key positions in all our big losses…which is happening all around the league this year as Covid and the cap reduced year are throwing a wrench in teams depth charts.  We’re nearly at full strength for the first time since we murdered the chiefs 

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47 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree, you're stuck, maybe you don't give him Rodgers/Mahomes/Allen type money, but enough that you have trouble fielding a good enough team around him.  When you have a guy like Rodgers you can get away with not having elite talent around him, "Good talent" is good enough.  Instead if you have the guy who's a good step below Rodgers who needs better talent, but not enough money left to pay everyone that's needed. 

 

But he's still showed enough those first 4 years, you can't just cut him and start over as the next guy may not even be as good as the guy you just cut.  So now 6 or 7 years later, you have nothing to show for it and likely if you're the GM you're now also jobless.

Winning 4 playoff games is so difficult without someone really special at qb in todays nfl. I know I’m breaking my own speculation rule with this one but I don’t think a consistent but not special offense like the pats this season is gonna win those three playoff games to punch their Superbowl ticket. If you forced me to take a guess what happens with the pats long term I think they’re a perennial playoff team that can’t get it done in the playoffs…the 49ers were one of the most well rounded consistent teams I can think of in recent memory and mahomes just got hot at the right time and stunned them in the superbowl

Edited by Generic_Bills_Fan
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12 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Does anyone remember Matt Cassel winning 11 games in NE.   

 

He hasn’t won 11 games for the 3 next teams he’s played for.  
 

Yea that’s been talked about a lot lol the pats offensive line seems like it’s always good no matter who they plug in there which makes playing qb much easier…then guys like Nate solder leave and they are absolutely horrible on their new team haha 

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3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Does anyone remember Matt Cassel winning 11 games in NE.   

 

He hasn’t won 11 games for the 3 next teams he’s played for.  
 

 

 

No he just went 10-6 with the chiefs and lead them to a playoff game also made pro bowl that year.

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1 hour ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

No he just went 10-6 with the chiefs and lead them to a playoff game also made pro bowl that year.


ok ya got me.  10-5 and a playoff game 


In 4 years in KC.  1 winning season. 
19 games won.  

 

Beyond that 9 other wins in 5 seasons. 

 

Shall we talk Jimmy Garoppolo? Or Jacoby Brissett?

Both highly touted in NE. 
 

Jimmy G got paid a 💩 load of $ and he’s mediocre at best. 
 

Jacoby had 3 years in Indy and is backing up Tua no?

 

THE POINT 

lets not jump to conclusions 

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9 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:


ok ya got me.  10-5 and a playoff game 


In 4 years in KC.  1 winning season. 
19 games won.  

 

Beyond that 9 other wins in 5 seasons. 

 

Shall we talk Jimmy Garoppolo? Or Jacoby Brissett?

Both highly touted in NE. 
 

Jimmy G got paid a 💩 load of $ and he’s mediocre at best. 
 

Jacoby had 3 years in Indy and is backing up Tua no?

 

THE POINT 

lets not jump to conclusions 

 

 

You do not want to talk Jimmy Garoppolo because he lead the 9ers to a SB and almost won. You must not remember how nice Garoppolo was before he got injured. And if your point is not to jump to conclusions then you  (if you are) and a host of others should not be talking down in anyway about Jones because he is a rookie and for the 1000th time he is purposely not being asked to do too much, even though his detectors are ignoring that just because he plays for your rivals. 

 

 

add there have been plenty of QBs who have helped their team win a SB with not having a HOF arm....

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Mcdermott is very good scheme specific vs passing attacks.  Edmunds will be a problem Jones has never encountered.  He will take away some of his easy reads.  Crossers and corner routes seem to be his best throws.  I expect the game to be very difficult for the New England offense.  Allen and the offense will move the ball.  I dont see New England winning the game.  I think Allen will control the game and win it.  

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21 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Winning 4 playoff games is so difficult without someone really special at qb in todays nfl. I know I’m breaking my own speculation rule with this one but I don’t think a consistent but not special offense like the pats this season is gonna win those three playoff games to punch their Superbowl ticket. If you forced me to take a guess what happens with the pats long term I think they’re a perennial playoff team that can’t get it done in the playoffs…the 49ers were one of the most well rounded consistent teams I can think of in recent memory and mahomes just got hot at the right time and stunned them in the superbowl

 

Man, do I agree w/ this.

 

The Pats are being hyped for this 6-game winning streak & Mac's efficient play during that stretch.  But if you look more closely, virtually none of the details are impressive.  It's always tough to win 6 in a row, so I don't want to discount that - but the good teams they played were missing key players, and they beat the teams they should (and I'm not saying the Bills wins are better - but this team & Allen have proven themselves more at this point).

 

The Jones hype is irrational. He's done fine so far for a rookie. But my goodness.  Let's see him put a team on his back, lead a few multi-score comebacks, and have to deal w/ pressure at the end of a game.  Imo, he's done almost nothing so far to indicate he'll be anything aside from a decent game manager.

 

That likely gets exposed in the playoffs, when he & they are playing actual good & great teams every week.  

 

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1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Man, do I agree w/ this.

 

The Pats are being hyped for this 6-game winning streak & Mac's efficient play during that stretch.  But if you look more closely, virtually none of the details are impressive.  It's always tough to win 6 in a row, so I don't want to discount that - but the good teams they played were missing key players, and they beat the teams they should (and I'm not saying the Bills wins are better - but this team & Allen have proven themselves more at this point).

 

The Jones hype is irrational. He's done fine so far for a rookie. But my goodness.  Let's see him put a team on his back, lead a few multi-score comebacks, and have to deal w/ pressure at the end of a game.  Imo, he's done almost nothing so far to indicate he'll be anything aside from a decent game manager.

 

That likely gets exposed in the playoffs, when he & they are playing actual good & great teams every week.  

 

very reminiscent of the dolphins last year...everyone was losing their minds when they were on a big win streak but there wasnt really any statement wins in there. 

Yea maybe its me not seeing him enough times.  yea the way the pats offense is built feels very high floor/low ceiling youre gonna get a consistent performance every week.  But theyre gonna be facing 2-3 absolute freaks of nature qbs that maybe the floor is a little lower but someone like mahomes/lamar/josh allen could absolutely go off at any moment.  kind of like when the titans knocked out the brady-led pats but then they couldnt get past mahomes.  One of those guys is gonna beat you if youre a ball control/play good defense team.  Maybe 10 years ago when you could hold wrs all game long and absolutely murder qbs on sacks it wouldve been a different story lol.  

 

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On 12/1/2021 at 8:38 PM, Paul Costa said:

Mac Jones is getting comparisons to Tom Brady. I personally don’t see it. I also think he is playing close to his ceiling. I think Mac Jones is playing similar to Baker Mayfield as a rookie. I said the same thing about him. He played well but thought he reached his ceiling. Time has proven that true. I think Mac Jones play proves that Bilichick is a great coach. He’s done a great job this year. Hate to admit it but it’s true. Hopefully he’s throwing a phone around 10:45 Monday night. 😊

Totally different strengths coming in.  Mayfield knock was he was to small and QBs from spread O Don’t tend to succeed in the NFL.  
 

Jones knocks were he came from a stacked team with amazing WR, and his arm strength may not be elite, also isn’t mobile. His strengths were his football smarts and the fact he came from a Pro style program in Alabama.

 

We don’t know about Jones yet, but I’ll take the smart kid with the quick release who can read D every time. Again he IMO went to the right team make him as good as he can be. 
 

 

21 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Does anyone remember Matt Cassel winning 11 games in NE.   

 

He hasn’t won 11 games for the 3 next teams he’s played for.  
 

Did he play any other years in NE with BB and McDaniels? If not that proves the other teams stunk and didn’t know how to use him.  Also forget he was traded because NE at the time had the GOAT.

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22 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Winning 4 playoff games is so difficult without someone really special at qb in todays nfl. I know I’m breaking my own speculation rule with this one but I don’t think a consistent but not special offense like the pats this season is gonna win those three playoff games to punch their Superbowl ticket. If you forced me to take a guess what happens with the pats long term I think they’re a perennial playoff team that can’t get it done in the playoffs…the 49ers were one of the most well rounded consistent teams I can think of in recent memory and mahomes just got hot at the right time and stunned them in the superbowl

Mosert ripping off 50 plus runs a game provided the explosive element to the team.  Turnovers are too inconsistent to really upon.  Explosive plays have to be had as well.  

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https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/mac-jones/JON586540/season

 

So this shows what we know.  Mac doesn't go deep down sidelines.  All picks are inside the numbers.  Deep down the middle or go routes are not his thing - almost everything under 20 yds.  

 

Mac may force Bills to pack the LOS, send pressure on occasion from all over and tackle on all the under and LOS routes.  If Bills don't have to account for MAC scrambling can always have 6/7 in coverage.

 

Item to note, Titans only blitzed him 6x and got 2 pressures and 2 sacks.  The 1st TD to Bourne in red zone was vs blitz as Titans gambled in man coverage.  

 

Kid is good in their system.  Accurate and usually makes the right read.  Milano and Edmunds are key vs shallow crosses.

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My point of this whole thread was that Mac Jones had  a high floor , ready for the NFL.  He has tremendous coaching.  Baker Mayfield was a high floor ready for the NFL QB too. Cleveland took Mayfield over JA17 mainly because he was a much safer pick. They didn’t want to take the chance at the prospect with the crazy high ceiling. Mac Jones has shown us who he is. There is very little room for growth. He will be a solid Kurt Cousins type of QB. Depending on the coaching situation at New England he could also have a Baker Mayfield type career too. There’s not much to worry about being a Bills fan with regards to Mac Jones. BB is the cog that makes that machine run

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On 12/2/2021 at 5:01 PM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Does anyone remember Matt Cassel winning 11 games in NE.   

 

He hasn’t won 11 games for the 3 next teams he’s played for. 

 

Matt Cassel did not win 11 games in NE.  Cassel played 15 games for NE that year.  In those 15 games, the record was 10-5. 

Two years later, Cassel was 10-5 in KC (the team was 10-6 with backup Brodie Croyle losing 1 game)

 

Fun fact, in the KC season, Charlie Weis was the OC.  Josh McDaniels and not Charlie Weis was the OC in NE, but the offense was derivative of the offense Weis installed there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

My point of this whole thread was that Mac Jones had  a high floor , ready for the NFL.  He has tremendous coaching.  Baker Mayfield was a high floor ready for the NFL QB too. Cleveland took Mayfield over JA17 mainly because he was a much safer pick. They didn’t want to take the chance at the prospect with the crazy high ceiling. Mac Jones has shown us who he is. There is very little room for growth. He will be a solid Kurt Cousins type of QB. Depending on the coaching situation at New England he could also have a Baker Mayfield type career too. There’s not much to worry about being a Bills fan with regards to Mac Jones. BB is the cog that makes that machine run

 

I think we have no idea what Mac Jones ceiling is.  That's going to depend upon Mac Jones.

 

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21 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

Thread title = Wishful thinking:lol:

 

That's what Pats fans are saying. They already have Jones in the HOF.

 

"He's better than Brady his rookie year - therefore, he will definitely have a better career than Brady."

 

Not exaggerating.

 

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